No discounting permitted...

[lysolqn]

Doing some preliminary inquiries re a cruise for later this year and have been calling around for rates. Despite X's policy which prohibits discounting and only allows agents to quote X's published fares, I've gotten only two identical quotes on the same sailing for the same cabin category. Beyond that, if I factor in one or more of the amenities being offered by different agents (onboard credit, free gratuties, specialty dinners, insurance), quote to quote the NET rates vary significantly. Most of the agents with whom I've spoken acknowledge that X doesn't permit them to discount but add that they make up for that by including one or more of the aforementioned freebies. While technically speaking amenities don't qualify as discounts, practically speaking that is exactly what they are - as Shakespeare said a long time ago, "A rose by any other name..." So what exactly has X accomplished with its no discounting policy if that policy is so easily and so widely circumvented?

[jerseygirl3]

Doing some preliminary inquiries re a cruise for later this year and have been calling around for rates. Despite X's policy which prohibits discounting and only allows agents to quote X's published fares, I've gotten only two identical quotes on the same sailing for the same cabin category. Beyond that, if I factor in one or more of the amenities being offered by different agents (onboard credit, free gratuties, specialty dinners, insurance), quote to quote the NET rates vary significantly. Most of the agents with whom I've spoken acknowledge that X doesn't permit them to discount but add that they make up for that by including one or more of the aforementioned freebies. While technically speaking amenities don't qualify as discounts, practically speaking that is exactly what they are - as Shakespeare said a long time ago, "A rose by any other name..." So what exactly has X accomplished with its no discounting policy if that policy is so easily and so widely circumvented?

 

What they have accomplished by not allowing discounting is protecting many brick and mortar agencies from going out of business. The larger online cruise consortiums buy up so many cabins on each sailing that the are able to discount their cruises because they make up in volume, plus by putting a passenger into a "group" booking, since every 8th double occupancy cabin is free (that is not passed onto the pax), the agency can afford to lower their prices.

 

Having said that, they now get around it by offering amenities. If a brick and mortar agent, who doesn't buy up hundreds of cabins on each sailing, offers their guest an amenity, it is usually coming out of their own commission.

[Cruise Junky]

Doing some preliminary inquiries re a cruise for later this year and have been calling around for rates. Despite X's policy which prohibits discounting and only allows agents to quote X's published fares, I've gotten only two identical quotes on the same sailing for the same cabin category. Beyond that, if I factor in one or more of the amenities being offered by different agents (onboard credit, free gratuties, specialty dinners, insurance), quote to quote the NET rates vary significantly. Most of the agents with whom I've spoken acknowledge that X doesn't permit them to discount but add that they make up for that by including one or more of the aforementioned freebies. While technically speaking amenities don't qualify as discounts, practically speaking that is exactly what they are - as Shakespeare said a long time ago, "A rose by any other name..." So what exactly has X accomplished with its no discounting policy if that policy is so easily and so widely circumvented?

 

I totally agree with you, discounts are to be had..on a recent Azamara quote, it came with a $900 OBC from the TA, not the cruise line. Those discounts, freebies, kickbacks aren't that hard to find. But... when the average cruiser hears that Celebrity doesn't allow discounting, why go any further? You and I would as we know better but I'm betting the vast majority don't. Heck, even people who post here still book directly with the cruise line.

[lysolqn]

What they have accomplished by not allowing discounting is protecting many brick and mortar agencies from going out of business.

 

In theory, perhaps but not in reality. X's no discount policy was supposed to level the playing field between small independent (brick and mortar) agencies and the larger on- and offline agencies that offered discounts based on volume the little guys couldn't match. All well and good except the big guys are still discounting, although those discounts now fall under the category of "amenities" or "gifts," and the little guys still can't match them. If the policy was designed to protect the little guys, it failed miserably. That being the case, why bother with the no discount charade?

[lysolqn]

I totally agree with you, discounts are to be had..on a recent Azamara quote, it came with a $900 OBC from the TA, not the cruise line. Those discounts, freebies, kickbacks aren't that hard to find. But... when the average cruiser hears that Celebrity doesn't allow discounting, why go any further? You and I would as we know better but I'm betting the vast majority don't. Heck, even people who post here still book directly with the cruise line.

 

A very handsome discount, uh pardon me, amenity, indeed!

[Shippy]

The 'freebies' are the way the agencies compete.

The Oasis cruise we are taking later this year comes with $200. obc, prepaid gratuities(one of my favorite things to get), $100. spa credit, & dining in one of the specialty restaurants.

Sounds fair to me !

We are only paying $900.pp !

 

I don't care who pays for it in the long run as long as it is not me. This also really shows that although they say they are priced fixed it is for 'advertised' price only.

Their commission would have to be incredible for agencies to be able to give that many freebies & still make money.

[Richiebaseball]

In theory, perhaps but not in reality. X's no discount policy was supposed to level the playing field between small independent (brick and mortar) agencies and the larger on- and offline agencies that offered discounts based on volume the little guys couldn't match. All well and good except the big guys are still discounting, although those discounts now fall under the category of "amenities" or "gifts," and the little guys still can't match them. If the policy was designed to protect the little guys, it failed miserably. That being the case, why bother with the no discount charade?

 

In reality RCCL's no discount policy really had very little to do with leveling the playing field between the small agencies and the larger agencies as much as they want to level the playing field between all agencies and themselves. They know there is a significant number of people that would prefer to deal direct and they would like to take price out of the equation. If the policy happens to benefit small agencies as well, hey that's great and they'll happily try to build on that reputation.

I would think that forcing OBC to be given also adds to the onboard purchases thereby increasing an already very profitable part of the business. So from an economic standpoint an amenity like OBC is much more profitable than a discount. And if they can't stop it all then try to keep the more profitable option.

[grandgeezer]

We're going on the Millie next month and we booked the cruise through an online agency and we got a discount of $110 p.p. from the price quoted by Celebrity and several other agencies. We also got $50 p.p. obc from the agency. Celebrity charged my credit card for the down payment as well as the final payment so they know exactly what I paid. For whatever reason, there is still some discounting out there, you just have to look for it.

[jagoffee]

We're going on the Millie next month and we booked the cruise through an online agency and we got a discount of $110 p.p. from the price quoted by Celebrity and several other agencies. We also got $50 p.p. obc from the agency. Celebrity charged my credit card for the down payment as well as the final payment so they know exactly what I paid. For whatever reason, there is still some discounting out there, you just have to look for it.

 

I wonder if perhaps you were not actually comparing apples to apples when comparing the quotes. Since you stated that all payments were charged directly to Celebrity then either they do in fact allow a TA to discount the cruise (which it what you stated) or there was some confusion on the different quotes. I aways have to make sure that I am comparing correctly because of the various ways to extra charges are sometimes handled. Or persons pre paid gratuities?

 

Thank you for mentioning this because if you were in fact comparing apples to apples then Celebrity is allowing the TA to discount which is clearly against their written policy and they would clearly be aware that it is being done.

[Cruise Junky]

I wonder if perhaps you were not actually comparing apples to apples when comparing the quotes. Since you stated that all payments were charged directly to Celebrity then either they do in fact allow a TA to discount the cruise (which it what you stated) or there was some confusion on the different quotes. I aways have to make sure that I am comparing correctly because of the various ways to extra charges are sometimes handled. Or persons pre paid gratuities?

 

Thank you for mentioning this because if you were in fact comparing apples to apples then Celebrity is allowing the TA to discount which is clearly against their written policy and they would clearly be aware that it is being done.

 

Not necessarily, a discount of only $110 might be a group rate that the TA had put together for this sailing. Totally within Celebrity's rules.

[Richiebaseball]

Not necessarily, a discount of only $110 might be a group rate that the TA had put together for this sailing. Totally within Celebrity's rules.

 

A group rate is possible and makes the most sense. It's also a possibility that it's just a discount. Just because there is a no discount policy does not mean that no discounts happen. If the cruise line does not enforce the policy then it's a policy in name only. Sort of like speeding. Just because the limit is 55 doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people doing 70 that never get a ticket. There's only a problem when you get caught.

[Cruise Junky]

A group rate is possible and makes the most sense. It's also a possibility that it's just a discount. Just because there is a no discount policy does not mean that no discounts happen. If the cruise line does not enforce the policy then it's a policy in name only. Sort of like speeding. Just because the limit is 55 doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people doing 70 that never get a ticket. There's only a problem when you get caught.

 

absolutely, which is why i said "Might be"

[lysolqn]

In reference to my original post, I've now received some quotes that are significantly higher than X's published rates, even after I net out those quotes to account for OBC. Makes me wonder how some agencies/agents expect to stay in business when their "generous OBC offers" still result in prices higher than those published by the cruise line.

[Richiebaseball]

In reference to my original post, I've now received some quotes that are significantly higher than X's published rates, even after I net out those quotes to account for OBC. Makes me wonder how some agencies/agents expect to stay in business when their "generous OBC offers" still result in prices higher than those published by the cruise line.

 

Are you on the site that offers quotes from various agencies?

[TMLAalum]

The online, now bankrupt TA we booked our Eclipse cruise with last year had a base rate a couple hundred below Celeb's pricing for the same cabin category. In actuality, this TA skewed the taxes & port charges up to make it seem that we were getting a discount when the total price was equivalent to Celeb's all-in cost.

[Jade13]

We're going on the Millie next month and we booked the cruise through an online agency and we got a discount of $110 p.p. from the price quoted by Celebrity and several other agencies. We also got $50 p.p. obc from the agency. Celebrity charged my credit card for the down payment as well as the final payment so they know exactly what I paid. For whatever reason, there is still some discounting out there, you just have to look for it.

 

We have a TA who discounts as well. And yes, our credit card is charged to Celebrity. They somehow do this on-line and it comes off of their commission.

[Richiebaseball]

The online, now bankrupt TA we booked our Eclipse cruise with last year had a base rate a couple hundred below Celeb's pricing for the same cabin category. In actuality, this TA skewed the taxes & port charges up to make it seem that we were getting a discount when the total price was equivalent to Celeb's all-in cost.

 

Honestly that practice doesn't happen too often today. If it ever does it's definitely a sign to run away from that agency.

You can call cruise lines today and many of the reservation agents will not even know what a port charge is. As far as the cruise lines are concerned there is no such animal. A portion of the cruise price includes non-commissionable cruise fare, or NCCF, that simply denotes the portion of the cruise fare that they do not pay commission on. As far as the cruise line is concerned those numbers are never broken down for a guest and they also require that agencies advertise the entire price as well.

[TMLAalum]

Honestly that practice doesn't happen too often today. If it ever does it's definitely a sign to run away from that agency.

 

Thanks to cruise critic, trip advisor and Kween Karen we smelled a rat within a month of booking with this agency. We tried to work things out with them but promises were made and lies were spoken. Luckily when they went bellyup, we didn't lose money thanks to our credit card company, or our reservation (which internet TA had brokered thru a legit agency) and had a fabulous cruise.

 

With the current TA we've booked with, I notice the agent immediately calls Celeb to work out details such as Captain's Club bonuses and cabin choice and puts us on hold until Celeb confirms our requests. The previous now-kaput agent didn't work that way at all.

[lysolqn]

Are you on the site that offers quotes from various agencies?

 

Yes; in addition to making calls to several agencies with which I'm familiar, I'm also using not one, but two different sites that allow multiple agencies to provide quotes. Several agencies have offered rates identical to X, some of which are offset by different offers of OBC. There are also agencies whose rates are signficantly lower than X, both with and without factoring in OBC; and some agencies are signficantly higher than X even considering their offers of OBC. Go figure! Frankly, I much preferred the old way when discounting was above board and you could compare one price to another without having to use a calculator, an abacus AND your fingers and toes! X's no discount policy is clearly a matter of form over substance and each time I research a cruise the process gives me a headache. IMHO it's time to nix the policy and allow the marketplace to work the way it was intended.

[Richiebaseball]

Yes; in addition to making calls to several agencies with which I'm familiar, I'm also using not one, but two different sites that allow multiple agencies to provide quotes. Several agencies have offered rates identical to X, some of which are offset by different offers of OBC. There are also agencies whose rates are signficantly lower than X, both with and without factoring in OBC; and some agencies are signficantly higher than X even considering their offers of OBC. Go figure! Frankly, I much preferred the old way when discounting was above board and you could compare one price to another without having to use a calculator, an abacus AND your fingers and toes! X's no discount policy is clearly a matter of form over substance and each time I research a cruise the process gives me a headache. IMHO it's time to nix the policy and allow the marketplace to work the way it was intended.

 

You're dealing with a pretty wide variety of agencies with varying levels of competency. There are agencies there that quote every single request and some of them outsource that to someone in South America. They're able to pay literally dollars a day. Many of them do not catch the least expensive category, resident rates, senior rates, heck many do not even read the comments so if there is anything unusual it's often missed. They do that because it's simply a numbers game for them. They're quite satisfied with getting 75% of the quotes correct and make up for it in volume.

Now that's not every agency on those sites but many of them are like that. As far as the discounted rates, if it is indeed a discount and not group space then they're just betting they don't get caught. And they may not. Or they may. That really depends on the cruise line.

Personally I don't have a problem with the no discount policy. It's their product and they have a right to see it sold for what they want it sold for. Other companies work the same way from Bose to Apple to Nintendo and that practice has also been upheld by the Supreme Court. But I think the marketplace does work the way it was intended as agencies have found a way to compete on price.

I have an observation and I hope you don't take it the wrong way. It seems like you've been through this before, maybe more than once, and I'm guessing have booked previously with an agency that offered a perk of some kind. If the process has become such that you find it a burden, why not stick with a previous agency that has given you good service and a perk? I don't doubt that you can almost always find something for $20 or $30 less but in the end, is it worth it? Or is it a case of finding the lowest price at any cost?

[lysolqn]

You're dealing with a pretty wide variety of agencies with varying levels of competency. There are agencies there that quote every single request and some of them outsource that to someone in South America. They're able to pay literally dollars a day. Many of them do not catch the least expensive category, resident rates, senior rates, heck many do not even read the comments so if there is anything unusual it's often missed. They do that because it's simply a numbers game for them. They're quite satisfied with getting 75% of the quotes correct and make up for it in volume.

Now that's not every agency on those sites but many of them are like that. As far as the discounted rates, if it is indeed a discount and not group space then they're just betting they don't get caught. And they may not. Or they may. That really depends on the cruise line.

Personally I don't have a problem with the no discount policy. It's their product and they have a right to see it sold for what they want it sold for. Other companies work the same way from Bose to Apple to Nintendo and that practice has also been upheld by the Supreme Court. But I think the marketplace does work the way it was intended as agencies have found a way to compete on price.

I have an observation and I hope you don't take it the wrong way. It seems like you've been through this before, maybe more than once, and I'm guessing have booked previously with an agency that offered a perk of some kind. If the process has become such that you find it a burden, why not stick with a previous agency that has given you good service and a perk? I don't doubt that you can almost always find something for $20 or $30 less but in the end, is it worth it? Or is it a case of finding the lowest price at any cost?

 

Thanks for the info; it explains a lot, especially re outsourcing. I've no interest whatsoever in flitting from one TA to another to save $30. The fact is we used one TA for more than a decade and since she left the industry, have been using another for the last three-plus years. We value good service and a fair deal (not always the least expensive) and reward that with our loyalty, so it's not a matter of finding the lowest price at any cost. No "deal" could get me to book with an agency about which information is thin at best or whose experience in the business amounts to yesterday! It is, however, at our TA's suggestion/request that I check to see what the competition is offering and as I said at the outset, the range of offers I've seen this time around (apples to apples) is almost comical as they relate to a no discount policy that when push comes to shove, is a policy in name only - so why bother?

[cpgrneyes]

I'm in the process of booking four cabins for a cruise next year, and have prices all over the board. I've used one TA three times previously, and their net cost is the highest.

 

All but one agency has offered more generous OBC ($450 more, not an insubstantial amount!), and I've been straightforward with my TA who insists the other agencies can't do what they're quoting. I'm not trying to get $30 more, but hundreds, as other agencies are offering.

 

One agency has the lowest net cost ($800 lower than my TA), but is simply discounting the cruise price. Since we are paying for all the cabins (a family vacation), that's far more attractive to us, as we, the payers, get the total discount rather than our kids having the OBC.

 

I called Captain's Club to verify that an agency can do this. She said yes! She said agencies sometimes have different agreements with X, or they could have purchased a group that gives them leeway. Seriously, I asked in a number of different ways, even read X's policy, and she never wavered from her answer.

 

I do all the research, select the cruise, select the cabin, keep on top of promotions, monitor pricing, so all I need is the booking agent. I'm happy to hear that there are agents who discount, since that's MUCH easier for consumers than OBC's, included gratuities, etc. I've had to use a spreadsheet to get to the true net costs!

[ISABELLA]

We're going on the Millie next month and we booked the cruise through an online agency and we got a discount of $110 p.p. from the price quoted by Celebrity and several other agencies. We also got $50 p.p. obc from the agency. Celebrity charged my credit card for the down payment as well as the final payment so they know exactly what I paid. For whatever reason, there is still some discounting out there, you just have to look for it.

 

The only time discount for a cruise fare given is when the agency have group booking and prices were negotiated with cruise line. Usually it is a large agency. Or agency have a block of cabin at " first published" rate, which is usually lower that 6 months later.

The good example of it- I booked Constellation for next April and got over $300 better price than current price. Agency had some cabins at " first published rates.

[Loving My Life]

I wish I knew how to find a good online TA...and which companies I should avoid. I really hate that we can't talk about it or share information on cc.

[pspercy]

I wish I knew how to find a good online TA...and which companies I should avoid. I really hate that we can't talk about it or share information on cc.

 

Hear hear:)