Breaking news: Costa Concordia in deep problems!

[FLSteve11]

Why does a ship with a gash in her port side list to starboard?

 

Maybe there is a bigger hole on the starboard side you can't see underwater

[sjn911]

Great post --------------------------------------------------------------------------------from Captain BJ on Costa boards:

 

my two cents based on sitting in the Captain's chair for a couple of years and investigating officer for a couple of marine 'incidents' but these are just first thoughts

 

- looking at the overall layout of where the ship was due to go and where it went I have to suspect there was a deviation from the normal course.

 

- tracks show a deviation to port, toward the island that makes no navigational sense

 

* my opinion is this was an electronic error. 'Someone' had reprogrammed the GPS tied to the auto-pilot and had fat fingered a course entry (note the one digit error mentioned by another post), This error turned the ship TOWARD the island rather than north leaving the island safely to the west. (maritime cases are loaded with "radar assisted collision" cases, easily expanded to electronic because folks relied TOO hard on the magic of electrons)

 

* OPINION - SADLY the bridge watch noticed this error WAY too late. (In the vernacular of 'Bridge Resource Management', we call this 'loss of situational awareness) Once detected they notified the Captain who knew they were far off track and getting back on track would cost dollars in either a late arrival or consumption of addition fuel to increase speed.

 

* OPINION - The Captain then saw a short cut ..... a pass between two islands that was narrow but 'just enough' and allowed for minimal loss of time and distance

 

* OPINION - He went for it ..... and learned it was not well charted, because no significant vessels sail thru it!!!!! Oops, turned trying to avoid a rock but the stern swing (a ship turns from the back, your car turns from the front) had him catch the rock "full and by" - he's got a SERIOUS problem now.....

 

* OPINION - Once holed he saw he was close to the port and thought if I can dock the ship the risk is FAR FAR less, so he heads north to the port, only a few miles away while trying to manage the flooding. During this time he tells his crew, do NOT abandon, because I'm going to dock......

 

* the port entrance faces north and he approaches from the south so he must do a 180 degree turn about. Doing so allows enough of the water taken on thru the MASSIVE hole to shift (free surface effect) and the ship lists significantly to starboard resulting in a decision (or an uncontrolled event) to ground the ship just outside the port entrance. (ship damage control . . . )

 

My opinion . . . .

__________________

Capt BJ

 

Costa, Commodore, NCL, Windstar, Princess, DCL, RCL

40+ cruises

USCG Captain, retired - 6 ships, 2 commands, 12 yrs @ sea

Shellback, Golden Dragon, Bering Sea winter vet

[pe4all]

Great post --------------------------------------------------------------------------------from Captain BJ on Costa boards:

 

my two cents based on sitting in the Captain's chair for a couple of years and investigating officer for a couple of marine 'incidents' but these are just first thoughts

 

- looking at the overall layout of where the ship was due to go and where it went I have to suspect there was a deviation from the normal course.

 

- tracks show a deviation to port, toward the island that makes no navigational sense

 

* my opinion is this was an electronic error. 'Someone' had reprogrammed the GPS tied to the auto-pilot and had fat fingered a course entry (note the one digit error mentioned by another post), This error turned the ship TOWARD the island rather than north leaving the island safely to the west. (maritime cases are loaded with "radar assisted collision" cases, easily expanded to electronic because folks relied TOO hard on the magic of electrons)

 

* OPINION - SADLY the bridge watch noticed this error WAY too late. (In the vernacular of 'Bridge Resource Management', we call this 'loss of situational awareness) Once detected they notified the Captain who knew they were far off track and getting back on track would cost dollars in either a late arrival or consumption of addition fuel to increase speed.

 

* OPINION - The Captain then saw a short cut ..... a pass between two islands that was narrow but 'just enough' and allowed for minimal loss of time and distance

 

* OPINION - He went for it ..... and learned it was not well charted, because no significant vessels sail thru it!!!!! Oops, turned trying to avoid a rock but the stern swing (a ship turns from the back, your car turns from the front) had him catch the rock "full and by" - he's got a SERIOUS problem now.....

 

* OPINION - Once holed he saw he was close to the port and thought if I can dock the ship the risk is FAR FAR less, so he heads north to the port, only a few miles away while trying to manage the flooding. During this time he tells his crew, do NOT abandon, because I'm going to dock......

 

* the port entrance faces north and he approaches from the south so he must do a 180 degree turn about. Doing so allows enough of the water taken on thru the MASSIVE hole to shift (free surface effect) and the ship lists significantly to starboard resulting in a decision (or an uncontrolled event) to ground the ship just outside the port entrance. (ship damage control . . . )

 

My opinion . . . .

__________________

Capt BJ

 

Costa, Commodore, NCL, Windstar, Princess, DCL, RCL

40+ cruises

USCG Captain, retired - 6 ships, 2 commands, 12 yrs @ sea

Shellback, Golden Dragon, Bering Sea winter vet

 

This scenario actually makes sense!

[cdamion]

Great post --------------------------------------------------------------------------------from Captain BJ on Costa boards:

 

my two cents based on sitting in the Captain's chair for a couple of years and investigating officer for a couple of marine 'incidents' but these are just first thoughts

 

- looking at the overall layout of where the ship was due to go and where it went I have to suspect there was a deviation from the normal course.

 

- tracks show a deviation to port, toward the island that makes no navigational sense

 

* my opinion is this was an electronic error. 'Someone' had reprogrammed the GPS tied to the auto-pilot and had fat fingered a course entry (note the one digit error mentioned by another post), This error turned the ship TOWARD the island rather than north leaving the island safely to the west. (maritime cases are loaded with "radar assisted collision" cases, easily expanded to electronic because folks relied TOO hard on the magic of electrons)

 

* OPINION - SADLY the bridge watch noticed this error WAY too late. (In the vernacular of 'Bridge Resource Management', we call this 'loss of situational awareness) Once detected they notified the Captain who knew they were far off track and getting back on track would cost dollars in either a late arrival or consumption of addition fuel to increase speed.

 

* OPINION - The Captain then saw a short cut ..... a pass between two islands that was narrow but 'just enough' and allowed for minimal loss of time and distance

 

* OPINION - He went for it ..... and learned it was not well charted, because no significant vessels sail thru it!!!!! Oops, turned trying to avoid a rock but the stern swing (a ship turns from the back, your car turns from the front) had him catch the rock "full and by" - he's got a SERIOUS problem now.....

 

* OPINION - Once holed he saw he was close to the port and thought if I can dock the ship the risk is FAR FAR less, so he heads north to the port, only a few miles away while trying to manage the flooding. During this time he tells his crew, do NOT abandon, because I'm going to dock......

 

* the port entrance faces north and he approaches from the south so he must do a 180 degree turn about. Doing so allows enough of the water taken on thru the MASSIVE hole to shift (free surface effect) and the ship lists significantly to starboard resulting in a decision (or an uncontrolled event) to ground the ship just outside the port entrance. (ship damage control . . . )

 

My opinion . . . .

__________________

Capt BJ

 

Costa, Commodore, NCL, Windstar, Princess, DCL, RCL

40+ cruises

USCG Captain, retired - 6 ships, 2 commands, 12 yrs @ sea

Shellback, Golden Dragon, Bering Sea winter vet

 

Thanks. With all the speculation, this is by far the most reasonable educated guess that I have seen. It makes sense and answers many questions. We shall see in the weeks/months ahead.

[luv2gonow]

That post does make a lot of sense. Maybe it should also be a wake up call to always put SAFETY first and not look at the "bottom line".

Really sad this is the normal now....and certainly not limited to the cruise industry.

I pray for all of the people onboard.

Kerri

[MelvynG]

I just saw a picture of the black box being taken off the ship. This will show in detail what happened. I suspect human error by an inexperienced crew member. They should constantly monitor the depth of water beneath the keel.

 

The captain should have been the last to leave the ship. In fact he left two hours before the last passengers.

 

Shame on him!

[BIG_Steve]

Great post --------------------------------------------------------------------------------from Captain BJ on Costa boards:

 

my two cents based on sitting in the Captain's chair for a couple of years and investigating officer for a couple of marine 'incidents' but these are just first thoughts

 

- looking at the overall layout of where the ship was due to go and where it went I have to suspect there was a deviation from the normal course.

 

- tracks show a deviation to port, toward the island that makes no navigational sense

 

* my opinion is this was an electronic error. 'Someone' had reprogrammed the GPS tied to the auto-pilot and had fat fingered a course entry (note the one digit error mentioned by another post), This error turned the ship TOWARD the island rather than north leaving the island safely to the west. (maritime cases are loaded with "radar assisted collision" cases, easily expanded to electronic because folks relied TOO hard on the magic of electrons)

 

* OPINION - SADLY the bridge watch noticed this error WAY too late. (In the vernacular of 'Bridge Resource Management', we call this 'loss of situational awareness) Once detected they notified the Captain who knew they were far off track and getting back on track would cost dollars in either a late arrival or consumption of addition fuel to increase speed.

 

* OPINION - The Captain then saw a short cut ..... a pass between two islands that was narrow but 'just enough' and allowed for minimal loss of time and distance

 

* OPINION - He went for it ..... and learned it was not well charted, because no significant vessels sail thru it!!!!! Oops, turned trying to avoid a rock but the stern swing (a ship turns from the back, your car turns from the front) had him catch the rock "full and by" - he's got a SERIOUS problem now.....

 

* OPINION - Once holed he saw he was close to the port and thought if I can dock the ship the risk is FAR FAR less, so he heads north to the port, only a few miles away while trying to manage the flooding. During this time he tells his crew, do NOT abandon, because I'm going to dock......

 

* the port entrance faces north and he approaches from the south so he must do a 180 degree turn about. Doing so allows enough of the water taken on thru the MASSIVE hole to shift (free surface effect) and the ship lists significantly to starboard resulting in a decision (or an uncontrolled event) to ground the ship just outside the port entrance. (ship damage control . . . )

 

My opinion . . . .

 

Interesting read, thanks. Please answer this if you can. Legally, what are the captains' responsibilities in an emergency like this? Is he required to stay until everyone is safe or all hope is abandoned? Or is he allowed to leave when he see's fit? Not talking morally, asking about his legal duty.

[sjn911]

Interesting read, thanks. Please answer this if you can. Legally, what are the captains' responsibilities in an emergency like this? Is he required to stay until everyone is safe or all hope is abandoned? Or is he allowed to leave when he see's fit? Not talking morally, asking about his legal duty.

I just told this Captain how I thought it shoud be posted on all threads on this subject and moved it from Costa boards giving him credit.....all i know..he posted on Costa board on largest thread on subject..if you want to try and catch him there...so well written...and calmly thought out from a man of the sea...Sarah

[CanWeGoYet?]

Found a link to an article quoting a woman who was on board the ship.

 

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Local-woman-describes-absolute-chaos-as-cruise-ship-crashes-137347443.html

[CanWeGoYet?]

I'm surprised the Captain didn't have a heart attack. I can't even imagine. Praying I am never responsible for this kind of FUBAR debacle at work.

[Topo Gigio]

Sorry, I guess that would create a problem. My wording is horrible. He meant he would have driven the ship into shallower water, close to the port.

 

He said a few months but it could take as little as one.

 

I'm not an expert but 1 month? if they can save the boat not only do they have to replace all the stuff, but also a fair amount of electrical/mechanical stuff has to be replaced and most of them are not readily available.

[RunsWithFlyingDolphins]

I'm not an expert but 1 month? if they can save the boat not only do they have to replace all the stuff, but also a fair amount of electrical/mechanical stuff has to be replaced and most of them are not readily available.

 

My brother-in-law was saying it could take as little as a month to get her out of her current position, depending on what he decides to do with her. As for refurbishments... I think it will probably take about a year to get her back up and running again. Because they pretty much have to re-do most of the ship.

[Topo Gigio]

Thanks for the clarification.

[keystonemama]

They have just reported finding 2 more bodies with their llife jackets on, elderly gentlemen, bringing death toll to 5. :(

 

Also read this quote from the Nanaimo Daily News:

 

"The Costa Concordia, which ran aground on Friday the 13th, was regarded as a cursed ship by superstitious Italian sailors, after the champagne bottle failed to smash when it was against the hull for it's christening ceremonies." :eek:

 

Note to self: Do not cruise on Friday the 13th.

[keystonemama]

They have just reported finding 2 more bodies with their llife jackets on, elderly gentlemen, bringing death toll to 5. :(

 

Also read this quote from the Nanaimo Daily News:

 

"The Costa Concordia, which ran aground on Friday the 13th, was regarded as a cursed ship by superstitious Italian sailors, after the champagne bottle failed to smash when it was against the hull for it's christening ceremonies." :eek:

 

Note to self: Do not cruise on Friday the 13th.

 

Oops, meant, "when it was thrown against the hull

[cdlsad]

Two more bodies were just found on Costa accident.

[mzloolue]

Found a link to an article quoting a woman who was on board the ship.

 

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Local-woman-describes-absolute-chaos-as-cruise-ship-crashes-137347443.html

 

 

This is an interesting and well written article.

Thanks for posting it.

[AZ Karaoke Girl]

Two more bodies were just found on Costa accident.

 

Latest I read is 5 dead and only 17 unaccounted for. That is amazing out of over 4200 onboard. Even if the captain did something wrong, it could have been a whole lot worse if he had not steered the vessel toward land. Just think what would have happened if it was in the middle of the ocean far from land and the entire ship sunk and people couldn't swim to land.

[sjn911]

Latest I read is 5 dead and only 17 unaccounted for. That is amazing out of over 4200 onboard. Even if the captain did something wrong, it could have been a whole lot worse if he had not steered the vessel toward land. Just think what would have happened if it was in the middle of the ocean far from land and the entire ship sunk and people couldn't swim to land.

 

Check, if you wish, Captain BJ's account of possibile way it all came down..sarah

 

I posted just a bit earlier in thread...Sarah

[sjn911]

Found a link to an article quoting a woman who was on board the ship.

 

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Local-woman-describes-absolute-chaos-as-cruise-ship-crashes-137347443.html

 

 

Thanks...it does bring terror of all mistakes any can make or avoid making with deeply practiced protocols...Sarah

[Enigmalady777]

Even though there were some fatalities, I find it remarkable that over 4,000 people made it to safety.

 

I'm wondering why it is that this particular ship had not yet held it's muster drill.

The two cruises I've been on, the muster drills were held on the first day of sailing (embarkation day) within a couple of hours of leaving port.

 

Looking at the latest pictures of the ship, I can't help but wonder if the ship is salvageable.

 

Having sailed the Splendor recently, I can tell anyone who is skittish about following through with their cruise plans after this disaster, that it is completely safe and accidents like this one are very rare.

[keystonemama]

Even though there were some fatalities, I find it remarkable that over 4,000 people made it to safety.

 

I'm wondering why it is that this particular ship had not yet held it's muster drill.

The two cruises I've been on, the muster drills were held on the first day of sailing (embarkation day) within a couple of hours of leaving port.

 

Looking at the latest pictures of the ship, I can't help but wonder if the ship is salvageable.

 

Having sailed the Splendor recently, I can tell anyone who is skittish about following through with their cruise plans after this disaster, that it is completely safe and accidents like this one are very rare.

 

Correct me if wrong, but the ship sailed originally and then picked up more passengers on the 13th? I saw a interview this morning where the couple and his family had boarded originally. He said there was a safety muster drill, but nothing about safety was discussed, instead it was a pitch for cruise excursions. :eek: He said he knew to go to deck 4 in an emergency because they had gone back to their cabin and read the emergency paperwork in their cabin. Unacceptable.

[cdamion]

Correct me if wrong, but the ship sailed originally and then picked up more passengers on the 13th? I saw a interview this morning where the couple and his family had boarded originally. He said there was a safety muster drill, but nothing about safety was discussed, instead it was a pitch for cruise excursions. :eek: He said he knew to go to deck 4 in an emergency because they had gone back to their cabin and read the emergency paperwork in their cabin. Unacceptable.

 

You are correct. That particular itinerary makes a continuous circle and picks up passengers at several stops. Most of the passengers were actually on their last night of the cruise as the ship was headed back to Costa's main port. That's why the delay in their 'safety briefing'.

[Heirloom]

Additional report just in from the NY Times....

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/world/europe/italian-cruise-ship-accident-raises-questions-about-crew-and-captain.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

[vacruizer]

Costa has just issued a statement saying "significant human error" and naming the captain as at fault. Not the typical corporate spin job - they must have some pretty good evidence against him and just want to distance themselves from him.