Tips??? why dont they include them in fare...

[DanJ]

Back in the old days of HAL they had "NO TIPS REQUIRED" policy the service was just fine ...maybe better than when it was Carnivalized

 

No tip is required on any line that gives you the option, otherwise we wouldn't have these debates. The HAL policy only served (serves, perhaps, I don't know if they still say no tips required) to ease the conscience of those who don't like to tip. Even though HAL would claim they pay their staff a wage that doesn't require a tip to supplement it, that wage still sucked when people didn't tip.

[njhorseman]

the agreement is eons old. It was between a TA trade association and the travel industry in general. It would be if renegoitated an anti trust violation(its an agreement between parties on a money issue)...any change would open that up for government intervention. I don't even know if the trade association still exists.

People have been reporting that certain cruise lines for some European travel HAVE added VAT.

 

while the 1/4 of 1 % is small it does in fact add up witness that the cruise lines have been up to the US Supreme Court on how its calculated at least once...

 

Is an agreement involving parties that no longer exist binding on anyone? I'd love to see an actual reference to it...I owned a travel agency and it's news to me.

 

The only reports of VAT I've seen involve on board purchases, not cruise fares. Even that VAT is very limited in scope. It is imposed on purchases on board cruises originating in Spain and calling on only EU countries.

 

The 1/4 of 1% can be more than paid for by raising average cruise fares a dollar per passenger per week...in fact $1 would increase the cruise line's profit as $100 added to fares to cover service charges increase tax liability by only 25 cents, as I've already noted.

 

I've not seen anything that would convince me including tips/service charges in the base fare would increase the fares any significant amount over the cost of the tips/service charges themselves.

[LHT28]

No tip is required on any line that gives you the option, otherwise we wouldn't have these debates. The HAL policy only served (serves, perhaps, I don't know if they still say no tips required) to ease the conscience of those who don't like to tip. Even though HAL would claim they pay their staff a wage that doesn't require a tip to supplement it, that wage still sucked when people didn't tip.

 

Once Carnival took over it reverted to the regular tip policy of Carnival Corp

 

We never had a problem with service (before Carnival ownership)

If you did not sail HAL prior to the take over then you would have noticed a difference;)

[njhorseman]

Back in the old days of HAL they had "NO TIPS REQUIRED" policy the service was just fine ...maybe better than when it was Carnivalized

 

And the crew hated the policy.

 

I can remember cruising on HAL years ago when our son was a preteen. The dining room staff bent over backwards to please him. As soon as they found out what type of soda he liked to drink there was a bottle of it on ice, as if it was champagne, already at our table awaiting him every night when we arrived for dinner. Why? Because the crew correctly ascertained that since we were half the age (maybe less) of the average passenger on board they stood a far better chance of getting a tip from us than from most of the passengers. Needless to say they were right.

[LHT28]

And the crew hated the policy.

 

 

I did not ask the crew how they felt about such matters

It was not my concern

[cruiseco]

the agreement is eons old. It was between a TA trade association and the travel industry in general. It would be if renegoitated an anti trust violation(its an agreement between parties on a money issue)...any change would open that up for government intervention. I don't even know if the trade association still exists.

.

 

I think you're thinking of the good/bad old days of US Gov't regulation of the airline industry where everything from routes to fares had to be approved by the gov't. If an airline applied for a fare increase on a specific route they had to justify the reason for the increase and tell the gov't what their costs were, including TA commissions. Cutting those commissions without approval would probably be a reason for the gov't to toss out any previous agreements and might also have meant some sort of administrative sanctions or fines.

 

But there has never been any kind of commission agreements between non-regulated travel suppliers and travel agents that were enforceable beyond normal contract law. A cruise line, once a yearly commission contract with a specific TA has expired, has always had the the ability to drop commissions to 0% if it liked with no recourse by the TA. The same with every other non-regulated part of the travel industry. And once the airline industry was deregulated they continued to cut commissions until their present level of 0%.

[smeyer418]

The only reports of VAT I've seen involve on board purchases, not cruise fares. Even that VAT is very limited in scope. It is imposed on purchases on board cruises originating in Spain and calling on only EU countries.

 

The 1/4 of 1% can be more than paid for by raising average cruise fares a dollar per passenger per week...in fact $1 would increase the cruise line's profit as $100 added to fares to cover service charges increase tax liability by only 25 cents, as I've already noted.

...

isn't that exactly the point that it will cost more to get the same amount on to the crew?

You can speculate as to how much more(my guess is between 120% and 130%...) but it will cost more.

 

as I said I am more than willing to pay the difference. Its just my opinion most won't like it.

 

As others have pointed out HAL had the policy that it was included now it isn't but HAL still continues to charge somewhat more(IMO) than the other mass market lines, even though I know they sell themselves as a premium one.

 

A cruise line can decide on its own what it will charge and how much commission it will pay(and remember what happened to the Renaissance line when they tried zero commissions) and on what...but they can't agree among themselves(different owned cruise lines) what they will do. They can make their own decisions but not across different cruise lines(except maybe Carnival which owns so many itself)...

so be careful what you wish/ask for. I would be happy as their would be no more tipping threads...but I am sure something else would become the most complained about...after formal night...

[navybankerteacher]

Back in the old days of HAL they had "NO TIPS REQUIRED" policy the service was just fine ...maybe better than when it was Carnivalized

 

"NO TIPS REQUIRED" never meant no tips suggested. HAL made it clear that it was normal to give tips if the service was appreciated. In recent years, several developments called for change:

 

A) As cruising became more "mainstream" the wider demographic, unaccostomed to the long-standing of passengers tipping cruise staff, did not maintain the tipping tradition -- last nights in the MDR became ghost towns as passengers tended to hide out.

 

B) The introduction of anytime dining ended the close familiarity passengers developed with dining room stewards.

 

C) Competitive pricing/advertising among lines encouraged lines to hold down published fares as much as possible, with the result that tips (now more properly termed service charges) assumed greater importance in staff compensation. Auto-tips started at $7 to $10 per person/day, and now run $10-$12.50 per person/day.

 

The fact is that "NO TIPS REQUIRED" remains the rule on many lines - if passengers have the ability to remove auto-tips to protest poor service, it must be acknowledge that tips are not required.

[njhorseman]

isn't that exactly the point that it will cost more to get the same amount on to the crew?

You can speculate as to how much more(my guess is between 120% and 130%...) but it will cost more.

 

as I said I am more than willing to pay the difference. Its just my opinion most won't like it.

 

As others have pointed out HAL had the policy that it was included now it isn't but HAL still continues to charge somewhat more(IMO) than the other mass market lines, even though I know they sell themselves as a premium one.

 

A cruise line can decide on its own what it will charge and how much commission it will pay(and remember what happened to the Renaissance line when they tried zero commissions) and on what...but they can't agree among themselves(different owned cruise lines) what they will do. They can make their own decisions but not across different cruise lines(except maybe Carnival which owns so many itself)...

so be careful what you wish/ask for. I would be happy as their would be no more tipping threads...but I am sure something else would become the most complained about...after formal night...

 

It may cost more, but so little more that no one will ever notice the difference. I can't come up with anything that would remotely cause the price to increase that much...the factors you've pointed out are trivial in terms of cost.

 

Who cares how Holland America or any other cruise lines price their fares for purposes of this argument? It has nothing to do with tipping/service charges. Holland America automatically charges your on board account for its Hotel Service Charge in the amount of $11.50 or $12 per day depending on your cabin type, just as many cruise lines that charge both lower fares and higher fares do. Holland America's (and every other cruise line's) fare pricing is a function of what its passengers are willing to pay and the cruise line's revenue yield model. It's all about how their passengers perceive the value they receive from the cruise line...in other words what the market is willing to bear.

 

Your Renaissance zero commission argument isn't relevant either. No one is suggesting that the mass market cruises are going to pay no commission to TAs...they would go out of business as quickly as "R" did. Travel agents wouldn't be losing a dollar of commission if service charges were collected up front and folded into the NCF, because travel agents aren't paid commission on service charges today, even if the passenger opts to prepay them as some cruise lines already permit. It will make not a penny's difference in travel agency income...they don't earn anything on it today, and they won't earn anything on it in the future.

[AmativeDame]

Because it would make the cruise appear more expensive that it will really cost. How often do you see an item priced at $99.97 instead of $100?

 

The cruise lines go on the correct assumption that you can fool some people some of the time and some people all the time.

 

DON

 

 

You see a lot of posts on here with people complaining about how its unfair that you have to often pre pay your tips if you do a cruiseline's version of freestyle/anytime dining. I would imagine there would be a huge uproar if they made it mandatory in general and would be discontinued pretty quick.

[cruisemom42]

 

I've not seen anything that would convince me including tips/service charges in the base fare would increase the fares any significant amount over the cost of the tips/service charges themselves.

 

I agree.

 

You see a lot of posts on here with people complaining about how its unfair that you have to often pre pay your tips if you do a cruiseline's version of freestyle/anytime dining. I would imagine there would be a huge uproar if they made it mandatory in general and would be discontinued pretty quick.

 

Don't count on it. There was a huge uproar when airlines started charging extra for luggage as well. And just see the good that has done.

[BruceMuzz]

The single most important reason the US-based mass market cruise lines don't include tips/service charges in their fare is for marketing purposes. Excluding the tips allow the lines to advertise extremely low lead-in fares, in the hopes of attracting customers.

 

Other reasons that often cited here by and large aren't important. Travel agent commissions wouldn't have to be paid because the cruise line can just include the tip/service charge as past of the non-commissionable fare.

 

cruise line income taxes aren't an issue because corporate income taxes are paid on profits, not gross revenues. If you take in $100 for tips/service charge as part of the fare and then pay that $100 out to the crew as salary, it adds zero profit to the cruise line's balance sheet so incurs no corporate income tax liability.

 

The crew generally pays no US income taxes because they are for the most part not US citizens or residents and by law are considered to work in the country in which the ship is flagged, not the US. (The sole exception among major cruise lies is NCLA's Pride of America, which is flagged in the US, employs primarily US citizens, and sails solely within US waters in Hawaii.)

 

But most of the crew pays income taxes elsewhere.

So long as the tips are in some way optional, the legal status of that money earned by the crew makes it largely non-taxable in their home countries.

If you make those tips part of the fare, the total salary of the crew becomes taxable in most of their home countries. This further reduces their earnings by anywhere from 30% to 50%.

Then the cruise lines have to raise their salaries to keep them. Who do you think will be paying for those salary increases?

[BruceMuzz]

I did not ask the crew how they felt about such matters

It was not my concern

 

 

 

It actually was your concern - if you cruised HAL.

Their No Tipping Required policy was translated by many as no tipping allowed.

 

HAL lost most of their best service staff who could no longer afford to work there with no tips. A major element of HAL approaching bankruptcy, and subsequently being purchased by Carnival, was the rapidly deteriorating service levels, revenue losses, and inability to make enough profit to build new ships - all a result of the good staff deserting the company to go to work for cruise lines where they made tips.

[DanJ]

Once Carnival took over it reverted to the regular tip policy of Carnival Corp

 

We never had a problem with service (before Carnival ownership)

If you did not sail HAL prior to the take over then you would have noticed a difference;)

 

It was 1995 when we sailed HAL for our honeymoon, so quite a bit after Carnival Corp took them over. They definitely had the "no tipping required" thing going then. I have no idea how the service was compared to the pre-Carnival days obviously, but we were blown away (granted it was also our first cruise). I can only imagine that HAL has suffered in the customer service department like most have, with ever increasing numbers and sizes of ships diluting the talent pool.

 

I do remember our cruise director in his debarkation information speech saying how no tips were required, that HAL paid their staff well enough to not need them, (maybe the CD position LOL), and he wouldn't give any guidance on what tip amounts would be appropriate. Being how their weren't websites like this around then, and it was hard for cruise rookies to learn these things, I found out much later we grossly undertipped.

[shepp]

One actually nice thing about added tips that hasn't been mentioned - especially for those of us that don't otherwise spend a lot of money onboard - is that OBCs can be used to pay off the service charge. Last cruise, because we didn't take any ship's excursions or buy marked-down T shirts, we had enough OBCs to take care of tips, with enough left over for a few drinkies.

 

Sure, there's a way of turning OBCs into cash, which could retroactively pay for tip-related fare increases, but this is so much simpler.

[njhorseman]

One actually nice thing about added tips that hasn't been mentioned - especially for those of us that don't otherwise spend a lot of money onboard - is that OBCs can be used to pay off the service charge. Last cruise, because we didn't take any ship's excursions or buy marked-down T shirts, we had enough OBCs to take care of tips, with enough left over for a few drinkies.

 

Sure, there's a way of turning OBCs into cash, which could retroactively pay for tip-related fare increases, but this is so much simpler.

 

Not all OBC can be used to pay service charges/tips. For example NCL has recently clamped down on this and most OBC it offers specifically can not be credited to pay service charges.

[njhorseman]

But most of the crew pays income taxes elsewhere.

So long as the tips are in some way optional, the legal status of that money earned by the crew makes it largely non-taxable in their home countries.

If you make those tips part of the fare, the total salary of the crew becomes taxable in most of their home countries. This further reduces their earnings by anywhere from 30% to 50%.

Then the cruise lines have to raise their salaries to keep them. Who do you think will be paying for those salary increases?

 

I don't claim to be familiar with tax laws in other countries, but in the US tips are subject to income taxes just as salary is. So, being "optional" has nothing to do with tax liability here, and I seriously question whether the concept of "optional" is part of tax laws elsewhere...it doesn't pass the common sense sniff test.

 

Other than the cash tips handed directly to crew by passengers which are in amounts unknown to the cruise lines, is it not true that service charge income is distributed to crew as part of their paychecks and accounted for as salary, and therefore already may be taxed in their home countries ?

[EGG]

I like the way things are. I prefer to pay my tips after I receive the service. While this change might make it easier for you to budget, it does not sound like this is in the best interest of the crew, the cruise line, and most cruisers.

[BruceMuzz]

I don't claim to be familiar with tax laws in other countries, but in the US tips are subject to income taxes just as salary is. So, being "optional" has nothing to do with tax liability here, and I seriously question whether the concept of "optional" is part of tax laws elsewhere...it doesn't pass the common sense sniff test.

 

Other than the cash tips handed directly to crew by passengers which are in amounts unknown to the cruise lines, is it not true that service charge income is distributed to crew as part of their paychecks and accounted for as salary, and therefore already may be taxed in their home countries ?

 

I am very familiar with tax laws in those other countries - because I happen to live in two of them.

You can question the tax liability in my countries from the comfort of your living room.

I unfortunately cannot question it.

If I receive a salary from my employer, I must pay income tax on part of that salary.

If I receive tips from a passengers, I pay no income taxes on that money.

 

People who do not travel much naturally assume that the rest of the world operates the same as in the USA. Not true.

Cruise lines rarely give "paychecks" to their employees on ships.

Most countries would not accept a check drawn on a bank in the USA. If I was able to convince my Asian bank to accept a US bank check, it would take months for me to get the money, and I would have to pay a substantial fee to have it converted to cash.

 

Nearly every cruise line pays it's seagoing employees in cash.

The amount of cash paid as salary is reported to the crewmembers' hiring agency, who then reports it to their government.

The amount of cash paid as tips - most of many crewmembers' earnings - is usually not reported, and is usually not taxable.

 

If the major cruise lines chose to include "gratuities" or "service charges" in the cruise fare, they would then be forced to re-negotiate union contracts for hundreds of thousands of seagoing employees in about 60 different countries, to account for the new pay scales that would be required for all the tipped employees working on ships all over the world.

Then they would have to substantially increase those official salaries, and pass the costs on to you.

[LHT28]

I wonder how it works on those cruise lines that include gratuities :confused:

EG:Azamara, Regent etc

 

Maybe the crew is just paid a bit more & no gratuities added to their pay

[smeyer418]

I am very familiar with tax laws in those other countries - because I happen to live in two of them.

You can question the tax liability in my countries from the comfort of your living room.

I unfortunately cannot question it.

If I receive a salary from my employer, I must pay income tax on part of that salary.

If I receive tips from a passengers, I pay no income taxes on that money.

 

People who do not travel much naturally assume that the rest of the world operates the same as in the USA. Not true.

Cruise lines rarely give "paychecks" to their employees on ships.

Most countries would not accept a check drawn on a bank in the USA. If I was able to convince my Asian bank to accept a US bank check, it would take months for me to get the money, and I would have to pay a substantial fee to have it converted to cash.

 

Nearly every cruise line pays it's seagoing employees in cash.

The amount of cash paid as salary is reported to the crewmembers' hiring agency, who then reports it to their government.

The amount of cash paid as tips - most of many crewmembers' earnings - is usually not reported, and is usually not taxable.

 

If the major cruise lines chose to include "gratuities" or "service charges" in the cruise fare, they would then be forced to re-negotiate union contracts for hundreds of thousands of seagoing employees in about 60 different countries, to account for the new pay scales that would be required for all the tipped employees working on ships all over the world.

Then they would have to substantially increase those official salaries, and pass the costs on to you.

 

 

Bruce As you know I have tremendous respect for what you post, and this is not on the income tax issue, but I can for almost nothing transfer money directly to a person's bank account almost anywhere in the world(with extremely limited exceptions for countries who refuse to participate or are banned from using the interbank facilities world wide)...its why people can get money from ATM's worldwide as well even with no bank account in the country you are in.

How do you pay the Port Agent at the different ports you are in? In cash?

the days of not being able to make direct transfers is long gone. The way it used to be done was a letter of credit drawn from your bank against a correspondent bank...and then at some point they would balance the books but in this day and age you can do the same thing and cruise lines based in the US banks will do this as part of their normal transaction

 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/foreign-currency-exchange#costs

 

this is an example it is no means the ideal way. Paypal does it too.

 

much cheaper and safer than carrying either a check or cash...

[navybankerteacher]

I am very familiar with tax laws in those other countries - because I happen to live in two of them.

You can question the tax liability in my countries from the comfort of your living room.

I unfortunately cannot question it.

If I receive a salary from my employer, I must pay income tax on part of that salary.

If I receive tips from a passengers, I pay no income taxes on that money.

 

People who do not travel much naturally assume that the rest of the world operates the same as in the USA. Not true.

Cruise lines rarely give "paychecks" to their employees on ships.

Most countries would not accept a check drawn on a bank in the USA. If I was able to convince my Asian bank to accept a US bank check, it would take months for me to get the money, and I would have to pay a substantial fee to have it converted to cash.

 

Nearly every cruise line pays it's seagoing employees in cash.

The amount of cash paid as salary is reported to the crewmembers' hiring agency, who then reports it to their government.

The amount of cash paid as tips - most of many crewmembers' earnings - is usually not reported, and is usually not taxable.

 

If the major cruise lines chose to include "gratuities" or "service charges" in the cruise fare, they would then be forced to re-negotiate union contracts for hundreds of thousands of seagoing employees in about 60 different countries, to account for the new pay scales that would be required for all the tipped employees working on ships all over the world.

Then they would have to substantially increase those official salaries, and pass the costs on to you.

 

 

Assuming Bruce Muzz knows what he is talking about, we have the definitive answer. Having the crew receive a substantial portion of their income in tips means they keep more. This means passengers pay less for the same real benefit for the crew. This means switching to the "decent wage" some posters claim to prefer would simply result in passengers paying more for the same level of service. This is enough to justify the current system -- which also allows for the concept of better compensation for better service: incentive.

 

It also allows for cheapskates to underpay -- so it's win-win for all.

[smeyer418]

Bruce As you know I have tremendous respect for what you post, and this is not on the income tax issue, but I can for almost nothing transfer money directly to a person's bank account almost anywhere in the world(with extremely limited exceptions for countries who refuse to participate or are banned from using the interbank facilities world wide)...its why people can get money from ATM's worldwide as well even with no bank account in the country you are in.

How do you pay the Port Agent at the different ports you are in? In cash?

the days of not being able to make direct transfers is long gone. The way it used to be done was a letter of credit drawn from your bank against a correspondent bank...and then at some point they would balance the books but in this day and age you can do the same thing and cruise lines based in the US banks will do this as part of their normal transaction

 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/foreign-currency-exchange#costs

 

this is an example it is no means the ideal way. Paypal does it too.

 

much cheaper and safer than carrying either a check or cash...

 

I have a citibank gold account

 

the benefits of SWIFT Funds Transfers:

 

 

• Send funds via the SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Communications) network to most countries overseas, in most currencies
  
• Funds arrive with the beneficiary bank within 5 banking days. (Please check with the beneficiary bank to check availability of funds).
  
• Please note: a competitive fee is charged for each transfer and a Citibank exchange rate will be applied to cross currency transfers - please see Rates and Charges Information for full details.
  
• Citigold current account customers can make up to eight SWIFT payments in total every calendar month to non Citibank accounts without incurring a fee. ...(fee info for more removed)
  

 

 

You think your cruise lines bank would know this...

[njhorseman]

I am very familiar with tax laws in those other countries - because I happen to live in two of them.

You can question the tax liability in my countries from the comfort of your living room.

I unfortunately cannot question it.

If I receive a salary from my employer, I must pay income tax on part of that salary.

If I receive tips from a passengers, I pay no income taxes on that money.

 

People who do not travel much naturally assume that the rest of the world operates the same as in the USA. Not true.

Cruise lines rarely give "paychecks" to their employees on ships.

Most countries would not accept a check drawn on a bank in the USA. If I was able to convince my Asian bank to accept a US bank check, it would take months for me to get the money, and I would have to pay a substantial fee to have it converted to cash.

 

Nearly every cruise line pays it's seagoing employees in cash.

The amount of cash paid as salary is reported to the crewmembers' hiring agency, who then reports it to their government.

The amount of cash paid as tips - most of many crewmembers' earnings - is usually not reported, and is usually not taxable.

 

If the major cruise lines chose to include "gratuities" or "service charges" in the cruise fare, they would then be forced to re-negotiate union contracts for hundreds of thousands of seagoing employees in about 60 different countries, to account for the new pay scales that would be required for all the tipped employees working on ships all over the world.

Then they would have to substantially increase those official salaries, and pass the costs on to you.

 

But the cruise lines that assess a daily service charge/hotel charge to their passengers specifically do not call those charges tips...and often will tell passengers that tipping is something that is done at their discretion beyond the service charge.

 

I am not talking about "tips", the cash handed to crew at the end of the cruise, I am talking about the income distributed to crew attributable to service charges.

 

Your paycheck issue is bogus. Funds can be electronically transferred into bank accounts world wide. Do you really think corporations have to write paper checks to pay for international transactions? A physical paycheck isn't required.

 

If what you're saying is true, then the cruise lines are telling us one thing...that the service charge is not a tip, but you're reporting it for tax purposes as a tip.

 

By the way...a large percentage of cruise line crew is Filipino. From the comfort of my office, through the magic of the Internet, I actually have accessed the income tax forms and instructions used in the Philippines, and I would suggest that it appears tip income may subject to income taxes in the Philippines, so at least for Filipinos, it looks like it doesn't matter what you call it:

 

http://www.bir.gov.ph/taxinfo/tax_income.htm#24020

 

1) What is income?

 

Income means all wealth, which flows into the taxpayer other than as a mere return of capital.

 

2) What is Taxable Income?

 

Taxable income means the pertinent items of gross income specified in the Tax Code as amended, less the deductions and/or personal and additional exemptions, if any, authorized for such types of income, by the Tax Code or other special laws.

 

3) What is Gross Income?

 

Gross income means all income derived from whatever source.

 

4) What comprises gross income?

 

Gross income includes, but is not limited to the following:

Compensation for services, in whatever form paid, including but not limited to fees, salaries, wages, commissions and similar item

Gross income derived from the conduct of trade or business or the exercise of profession

Gains derived from dealings in property

Interest

Rents

Royalties

Dividends

Annuities

Prizes and winnings

Pensions

Partner's distributive share from the net income of the general professional partnerships

[DanJ]

Assuming Bruce Muzz knows what he is talking about, we have the definitive answer. Having the crew receive a substantial portion of their income in tips means they keep more. This means passengers pay less for the same real benefit for the crew. This means switching to the "decent wage" some posters claim to prefer would simply result in passengers paying more for the same level of service. This is enough to justify the current system -- which also allows for the concept of better compensation for better service: incentive.

 

It also allows for cheapskates to underpay -- so it's win-win for all.

 

I don't think it's definitive at all. We are still missing out on some info in regards to what Bruce refers to as salary and what are tips. We all hear the anecdotal info being thrown out there that cabin stewards and waiters make less than $100/month in salary and make most of their money from tips. When you look at the cruise line job ads, they say the positions pay varying amounts of $1500 and up per month, and in the fine print, it says this amount consists of both salary from the cruiseline, and money from the "autotip/service charge/daily hotel charge" pool.

 

So, what does the cruise line report to the agency what your waiter makes, the sub-$100 salary, or the amount including the auto-tips? I suspect it's the latter, and the tips Bruce are talking about are the over and above amounts that some people give. Since those staffers are allowed to keep that money and not turn it in to the pool, it would be just like the 99.999% of restaurant waiters and hotel housekeeping out there that pocket their cash tips and don't report that as income either (even if they are supposed to). So, adding the tips to the fare wouldn't change any of that.