Taking food off for lunch?

[cruzeluver]

[QUOTE]I agree with you that no snack is worth devastating another country's agriculture, but some snacks are bound to be perfectly safe. While I understand that taking ripe fruit off a ship might be a problem because it could transport larvae, just exactly what is the danger of taking a granola bar, chocolate bar, or a can of soda, or a can of beer into another country? [/QUOTE]

Most on this and other threads on this same topic (comes up all the time) concur that pre-packaged foods like chips, cookies, granola bards etc. are fine and allowed in most cases.

[maldenmusic]

We sometimes bring a box or 2 of cereal with us when we are going to be on the beach all day.

[sunnycb02]

[quote name='1025cruise']You are wrong there.[/quote]

That was a joke.. because why would you be too concerned to eat another country's food but are seemingly OK with the state of our own food safety regulations? lol. The FDA is simply an administrative agency, controlled by politics and money, not concern for consumer health. Our food is so overprocessed, full of chemicals including pesticides and carcinogens, genetically modified... pink slime... don't think I need to go on, we have some of the worst food quality standards going!!

[Laughing Angel]

[quote name='pdmlynek'][COLOR=navy]I agree with you that no snack is worth devastating another country's agriculture, but some snacks are bound to be perfectly safe. While I understand that taking ripe fruit off a ship might be a problem because it could transport larvae, just exactly what is the danger of taking a granola bar, chocolate bar, or a can of soda, or a can of beer into another country?

Mitigating the spread of some insects by forbidding certain foods into another country makes sense, but it is impossible to prevent the spread of spores, bacteria, viruses, and othermicrobial species if you are talking about cruiseships. You'd need to disinfect people when they get off the ship, prevent them from leaving anything on shore (such as money, which is probably the most filthiest of all items that a person typically owns), forbid the people from using toilets, etc.

Let's be clear about this. If the cruiselines and local authorities were interested in safeguarding the agriculture of the destination, they would put in restriction about taking off ships certain foods, such as raw fruits and vegetables, and raw meat, just like they do in border checks into US, Europe, California, and other jurisdictions, and would allow other foods off the ship.

The total prohibition on taking off food from the ship simply makes people pay twice for food. It is about wringing as much money from the tourists as possible. Agricultural safety is just an excuse.

Can someone point to me a peer-reviewed scientific article that would show that my thinking is wrong? (And yes, I am a PhD scientist) [/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Yes, Doctor. I understand your point, and I personally agree that prepackaged foods should be okay to bring off the ship. That said...

There's this thing about the LAWS (not rules or suggestions) of a sovereign nation. They kinda insist that visitors follow the law while they are touring the country. Most countries allow prepackaged food. Some do not (I believe it's the ingredients in some of these prepackaged items that may be problematic). There are ports of call where they don't care what you bring in, and some there they are as serious as a heart attack about protecting the agricultural safety of the community (complete with sniffer dogs and armed inspectors). The item or items will be confiscated and you can be fined.

The cruiseline can warn you about taking food off the ship, but they are not in the business of law enforcement. Once you get on land, you (and whatever the authorities consider "contraband" on you) are their concern.

You may be absolutely right about the agricultural safety of the country being an excuse. You may be correct about this being a money grab by a greedy tourism industry, but the law is the law, and visitors don't get to choose which laws they obey.

If the country I am visiting says "Don't bring any food past our border", I will abide by that. They made the law. As a visitor, I choose to follow it.

[sparky-elpaso]

[quote name='Laughing Angel']Yes, Doctor. I understand your point, and I personally agree that prepackaged foods should be okay to bring off the ship. That said...

There's this thing about the LAWS (not rules or suggestions) of a sovereign nation. They kinda insist that visitors follow the law while they are touring the country. Most countries allow prepackaged food. Some do not (I believe it's the ingredients in some of these prepackaged items that may be problematic). There are ports of call where they don't care what you bring in, and some there they are as serious as a heart attack about protecting the agricultural safety of the community (complete with sniffer dogs and armed inspectors). The item or items will be confiscated and you can be fined.

The cruiseline can warn you about taking food off the ship, but they are not in the business of law enforcement. Once you get on land, you (and whatever the authorities consider "contraband" on you) are their concern.

You may be absolutely right about the agricultural safety of the country being an excuse. You may be correct about this being a money grab by a greedy tourism industry, but the law is the law, and visitors don't get to choose which laws they obey.

If the country I am visiting says "Don't bring any food past our border", I will abide by that. They made the law. As a visitor, I choose to follow it.[/quote]

:):):):) Your post should be made a sticky.

[pdmlynek]

[quote name='Laughing Angel']Yes, Doctor. I understand your point, and I personally agree that prepackaged foods should be okay to bring off the ship. That said...

There's this thing about the LAWS (not rules or suggestions) of a sovereign nation. They kinda insist that visitors follow the law while they are touring the country. Most countries allow prepackaged food. Some do not (I believe it's the ingredients in some of these prepackaged items that may be problematic). There are ports of call where they don't care what you bring in, and some there they are as serious as a heart attack about protecting the agricultural safety of the community (complete with sniffer dogs and armed inspectors). The item or items will be confiscated and you can be fined.

The cruiseline can warn you about taking food off the ship, but they are not in the business of law enforcement. Once you get on land, you (and whatever the authorities consider "contraband" on you) are their concern.

You may be absolutely right about the agricultural safety of the country being an excuse. You may be correct about this being a money grab by a greedy tourism industry, but the law is the law, and visitors don't get to choose which laws they obey.

If the country I am visiting says "Don't bring any food past our border", I will abide by that. They made the law. As a visitor, I choose to follow it.[/quote]

[COLOR=navy]Thank you for your thoughtful post.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]I am glad that we are in agreement “that prepackaged food should be okay to bring off the ship.” And we have not been able to find any peer-reviewed scientific journal article that would claim that all food should be prohibited from leaving the ship.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]As far as laws go, I do not know any country that would prohibit all foods from entering their country. As a matter of fact, most of Caribbean countries that are on cruise stops import vast majority of foodstuff, and First World countries and jurisdictions have lists of prohibited and allowed items. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]Can you please provide me with the relevant statutes of these countries that you purport to prohibit the bringing in all foods into their country? Not simply “rules or suggestions” or whatever the cruise line says or prints on their fliers, but actually binding and enforceable laws, i.e., statutes, that would be applicable to passengers on cruiseship? (And yes, I am an attorney.)[/COLOR]

[Laughing Angel]

Peer-reviewed research? A listing of International Law?

Forgive me, Doctor (Counselor?). I'm merely a working girl with a bachelor's degree, a full time job, a life to live and a conscience. I'm sorry, but at this particular point in time, I can't provide you with the information you seek.

I was never trying to start an argument. I just believed everyone here could agree that protecting another country's agricultural safety was the right thing to do.

You've obviously made up your mind about this topic. Please do as you wish.

[NoobCruise]

Originally Posted by [B]pdmlynek[/B] [URL="http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=33671675#post33671675"][IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
[I][COLOR=navy]I agree with you that no snack is worth devastating another country's agriculture, but some snacks are bound to be perfectly safe. While I understand that taking ripe fruit off a ship might be a problem because it could transport larvae, just exactly what is the danger of taking a granola bar, chocolate bar, or a can of soda, or a can of beer into another country?

Mitigating the spread of some insects by forbidding certain foods into another country makes sense, but it is impossible to prevent the spread of spores, bacteria, viruses, and othermicrobial species if you are talking about cruiseships. You'd need to disinfect people when they get off the ship, prevent them from leaving anything on shore (such as money, which is probably the most filthiest of all items that a person typically owns), forbid the people from using toilets, etc.

Let's be clear about this. If the cruiselines and local authorities were interested in safeguarding the agriculture of the destination, they would put in restriction about taking off ships certain foods, such as raw fruits and vegetables, and raw meat, just like they do in border checks into US, Europe, California, and other jurisdictions, and would allow other foods off the ship.

The total prohibition on taking off food from the ship simply makes people pay twice for food. It is about wringing as much money from the tourists as possible. Agricultural safety is just an excuse.

Can someone point to me a peer-reviewed scientific article that would show that my thinking is wrong?[I][B][COLOR=Red] (And yes, I am a PhD scientist)[/COLOR][/B][/I]

[/COLOR][/I]
[quote name='pdmlynek'][COLOR=navy]Thank you for your thoughtful post.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]I am glad that we are in agreement “that prepackaged food should be okay to bring off the ship.” And we have not been able to find any peer-reviewed scientific journal article that would claim that all food should be prohibited from leaving the ship.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]As far as laws go, I do not know any country that would prohibit all foods from entering their country. As a matter of fact, most of Caribbean countries that are on cruise stops import vast majority of foodstuff, and First World countries and jurisdictions have lists of prohibited and allowed items. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]Can you please provide me with the relevant statutes of these countries that you purport to prohibit the bringing in all foods into their country? Not simply “rules or suggestions” or whatever the cruise line says or prints on their fliers, but actually binding and enforceable laws, i.e., statutes, that would be applicable to passengers on cruiseship? [COLOR=Red][B](And yes, I am an attorney.)[/B][/COLOR][/COLOR][/quote]

hmmmm as a PhD scientist AND an attorney, I would think you would know exactly where to look up peer-reviewed scientific papers and agricultural laws in other countries.

For the US, I would start with the USDA and Pubmed. They have huge databases for peer-reviewed scientific papers, as well as in-depth information on our laws. As such a well-educated person, I would think you would be able to help everyone else out here by pointing them to data supporting your opinions.

I've provided some great references for laws in California. For laws in other countries, I would start with their port authority websites and search their .gov sites for ag laws. I'm not going to do an in-depth search for laws in every country. I posted info for California (1) as an example of how strict the laws may be (2) to provide information on why these types of laws may be in place and (3) that there may be serious consequences for breaking those laws - legally and financially for the individual breaking the law, as well as devastating damage to the local agriculture. I did not intend for the California laws to be applied to all foods and all ports. I simply suggested you ASK before packing food off the ship.

[pdmlynek]

[quote name='Laughing Angel']Peer-reviewed research? A listing of International Law?

Forgive me, Doctor (Counselor?). I'm merely a working girl with a bachelor's degree, a full time job, a life to live and a conscience. I'm sorry, but at this particular point in time, I can't provide you with the information you seek.

I was never trying to start an argument. I just believed everyone here could agree that protecting another country's agricultural safety was the right thing to do.

You've obviously made up your mind about this topic. Please do as you wish.[/quote]

[COLOR=navy]I think that we are in agreement that it is appropriate to protect another country’s agricultural safety. I certainly support you on this.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]But I think that we are also in agreement that there are certain foods, such as prepackaged foods that you suggest, that should not be a problem in taking off ships. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]And no, we are not having an argument, we are just posting on the internet, discussing different topics having to do with cruising. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]And no, I wont do as I wish; I’ll do as my wife wishes.[/COLOR]
:)

[pdmlynek]

[quote name='NoobCruise']
hmmmm as a PhD scientist AND an attorney, I would think you would know exactly where to look up peer-reviewed scientific papers and agricultural laws in other countries.

For the US, I would start with the USDA and Pubmed. They have huge databases for peer-reviewed scientific papers, as well as in-depth information on our laws. As such a well-educated person, I would think you would be able to help everyone else out here by pointing them to data supporting your opinions.

I've provided some great references for laws in California. For laws in other countries, I would start with their port authority websites and search their .gov sites for ag laws. I'm not going to do an in-depth search for laws in every country. I posted info for California (1) as an example of how strict the laws may be (2) to provide information on why these types of laws may be in place and (3) that there may be serious consequences for breaking those laws - legally and financially for the individual breaking the law, as well as devastating damage to the local agriculture. I did not intend for the California laws to be applied to all foods and all ports. I simply suggested you ASK before packing food off the ship.[/quote]

[COLOR=navy]Look, my point was to simply point out that we need to be reasonable about our actions, and not to treat a real problem of agricultural infestation with a knee jerk reaction. It makes sense not to take raw fruits and vegetables of a ship, but some foods should be fine. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]Although I do know how to find the appropriate information when I need it, that is not for me to do. It is up to the proponent of the position that no food can be taken off a ship to support that position. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]As far as California ag laws and regulations go, I used to live in California, and I do understand that the state does forbid fruits, vegetables, and other foodstuff, but does not forbid all foodstuff. It make sense in California, and similar restrictions make sense in other countries as well.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]In any case, it has been a lovely discussion, I don't think that we are that far apart on the practicalities of this issue. I got to get some sleep. :o[/COLOR]

[NoobCruise]

[quote name='pdmlynek'][COLOR=navy]Look, my point was to simply point out that we need to be reasonable about our actions, and not to treat a real problem of agricultural infestation with a knee jerk reaction. It makes sense not to take raw fruits and vegetables of a ship, but some foods should be fine. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]Although I do know how to find the appropriate information when I need it, that is not for me to do. It is up to the proponent of the position that no food can be taken off a ship to support that position. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]As far as California ag laws and regulations go, I used to live in California, and I do understand that the state does forbid fruits, vegetables, and other foodstuff, but does not forbid all foodstuff. It make sense in California, and similar restrictions make sense in other countries as well.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=navy]In any case, it has been a lovely discussion, I don't think that we are that far apart on the practicalities of this issue. I got to get some sleep. :o[/COLOR][/quote]

lol I must admit, I feel like we're butting heads about something, but I'm really not sure about what lol I did not say all foods were a problem. I think it varies from port to port, therefore an individual who wants to take food off the ship should do a little research and find out if it is legal to take the item they want into the port they'll be entering. While a granola bar and soda would be fine in California, a sandwich made up on the ship and carried into port would be illegal because it would be considered imported meat that had not been inspected. Importing uninspected meat is specifically forbidden by California state laws. It would not be a big investment in time to find an accurate answer for each of the ports you are interested in.

Sleep tight! Maybe we'll all make better sense after some sleep! My eyes are rolling in my head and my bed is calling my name lol