Auto-tipping.

[Scrumpy]

On our HAL cruise in 2003, I don't think tips were included. We tipped individually, but I was never sure what would have been appropriate because we didn't know if the service charge/gratuity in the lounges were actually for the server. As a former server, I am very touchy about tipping and generally over-tip. I also worry about staff who I believe are underpaid and do not mind giving them more. We had great service last time and no complaints.

 

I am glad that the tips are now included - VERY glad. Although he has since been re-trained, DH is from a country where tipping is relatively uncommon and has spent a lot of time travelling in places where you are not expected to tip. When he sees "tipping not required", he does tend to take it literally - and he has been known to get annoyed with me for tipping when he is "sure" that the custom where we are travelling does not encourage tipping. This is not to say that he is cheap as our regular restaurant tips (on land) average 18-25% - and HE is usually the one who takes care of the check. He worries that our customs unduly influence service in parts of the world and, over time, may change their culture and economy. I think he has a point, but that's irrelevant to this discussion.

 

We are looking forward to having the auto-tip and, hopefully, spending less time figuring out how much to tip above and beyond. I am also considering pre-tipping this time - had never thought of that until I read it here.

[doowillie]

A little off topic, but I wonder if the pay of the regular ship's crew who don't get tips compares favorably with the hotel staff crew who do, or if there is any tension between the groups ?

[1stMate]

Most of the people that I asked, did not tip above the auto tip and said that service was still most excellent.

I agree, but I also didn't encounter any service that was deserving of more than the auto tip. We got the treatment we expected, nothing more and nothing less.

[Sweetdreams]

One of the comments that the cruise director added to the discussion at the end of our recent cruise aboard the Maasdam about the auto-tipping that I had not considered-"in order for you room steward and table server to serve you during you cruise experience.....you have to consider all the behind the scene crew who are working just as hard to serve you....and that you waither could not serve you a beautifully plated entree piping hot to your table....or those fresh towels don't just magically appear without some other hard working people who never get to meet you...." I took this to heart and do believe that the auto-tipping ought to contribute to a more cohesive working team of crew members. Tipping above the auto-tippin though I'm sure is appreciated. We did not "pre-tip" anyone and received exceptional service. If we had, would our room steward stayed under our bed all the time? Just as well, that we didn't pre-tip!

[Sweetdreams]

One of the comments that the cruise director added to the discussion at the end of our recent cruise aboard the Maasdam about the auto-tipping that I had not considered-"in order for you room steward and table server to serve you during you cruise experience.....you have to consider all the behind the scenes crew who are working just as hard to serve you....and that you waiter could not serve you a beautifully plated entree piping hot to your table....or those fresh towels don't just magically appear without some other hard working people who never get to meet you...." I took this to heart and do believe that the auto-tipping ought to contribute to a more cohesive working team of crew members. Tipping above the auto-tipping though I'm sure is appreciated. We did not "pre-tip" anyone and received exceptional service. If we had, would our room steward have stayed under our bed all the time? Just as well, that we didn't pre-tip! LOL

[jhannah]

I think the auto-tip is fine ... with above-and-beyond for service that is the same. One tablemate on our cruise last week didn't like the concept. "The consumer should be in control," he said, and was removing the auto-tip. I explained the process and how those he would tip would likely get less in the long run than if he left the auto-tip in place and gave them more at the end. He didn't seem to buy it.

[rickcohen2]

When we are not cruising, if we go out to eat and there is a gratuity automatically added to the bill, chances are that is exactly the amount the server will get. It's a shame. If that wasn't already added-in, they would have done much better letting me do it myself.

 

I object to the cruise lines now adding this to my charges. If lines need to pay the staff an additional $140-$180 per cabin (or whatever), be up-front about it and build it into the price of everybody's trip.

 

Then leave me (and everybody else) alone about it and let us tip above that amount, should we choose to do so. This is a tipping society. We understand what it is to live on tips (I've done it).

 

But, we are also a capitalistic society. We understand what it means to get good service and to pay for it. When a service company can't keep its customers because of poor service, the company either fixes the problem or it goes out of business. If one working for tips can't make enough in tips, they either have to fix the problem, or they find something else to do.

 

[i feel, and this may just be me, that it's difficult to find good young service providers in our country (POA) because we've stopped expecting it, and yet the tip has become an entitlement, earned or not.]

 

Luckily for us all, HAL doesn't have a service problem, it's tops. We know we're getting aboard a superior line, and we are already willing to pay for it. If a tip subsidy is what it takes to continue the exceptional service, build it into my ticket.

 

THEN, when a steward's service is above and beyound, a tip will again carry the meaning it once did and the recipient will have again actually earned it.

 

IMHO

[jhannah]

If lines need to pay the staff an additional $140-$180 per cabin (or whatever), be up-front about it and build it into the price of everybody's trip.

The problem with that is that if a cruise line does this (pays more in wages) then they also have to pay more in payroll taxes. While they could include this factor in an increased fare, they could shoot themselves in the foot because that extra $200 or so will turn lots of people off. Just look at what lengths some people will go to in order to save $50. I'm not disparaging those who do this ... just making the point that increasing the fare on top of what they have to because of the escalating costs of fuel and other provisions will be just too much for a fair number of their potential customers.

 

I agree that the gratuity system has become an entitlement in the minds of many. It's rare to find someone who is willing to do sales work on commission only. They feel they are entitled to a certain wage whether they produce or not. But that's getting OT.

[kryos]

I agree, but I also didn't encounter any service that was deserving of more than the auto tip. We got the treatment we expected, nothing more and nothing less.

That's why I love the auto-tip. If service is fine ... just nothing particularly outstanding ... I don't have to worry about tips at the end of the cruise. I just leave the auto tip on and that's it.

 

Much nicer than having to scramble for envelopes and money for everyone.

 

When I cruise, I generally don't make any particular demands of the service staff. As long as my bed is made, and I have a clean bathroom and fresh towels, I'm easy to please. I rarely eat in the room as I prefer to be out amongst people (I travel solo generally). I have an inside cabin and am not a slob. My cabin steward can generally have my cabin cleaned up in a matter of ten minutes tops ... not like some of the other cabins I see him slaving away in.

 

So, generally auto tips does it for me. If I want to leave a little something extra, it is usually for my dining room waiters and I just hand them a bill discretely on the last night.

 

I'm also willing to bet that since the advent of auto-tips, the service staff is making out better than ever. I'm willing to bet a lot of people stiffed them ... or gave them very little ... in the years before auto tipping.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

When we are not cruising, if we go out to eat and there is a gratuity automatically added to the bill, chances are that is exactly the amount the server will get. It's a shame. If that wasn't already added-in, they would have done much better letting me do it myself.

But, sadly ... not everyone will be as upstanding about it as you. I think the auto tip protects the service staff ... prevents them from being stiffed by a lot of people who are simply not accustomed to being "good tippers."

 

I've told this story before ... but on my first cruise I was attending a writer's conference aboard ship. I was sharing a cabin with another writer from Seattle ... a young girl. This was before auto-tipping.

 

At the end of the cruise, the group at our dining room table mentioned that we should put an envelope together for our servers. This girl, who clearly was not rich ... generously donated her $10 to the pot. She simply didn't have anything additional. Same with the room steward. She donated $10 to the envelope, leaving me to put in the rest.

 

She wasn't being cheap, in my opinion ... she just honestly did not have the extra money. This was her first cruise ... and probably her last. She was only onboard because of the writer's conference.

 

To further bolster my argument about plenty of people "stiffing" the service folks ... do you remember how HAL used to close the Lido for dinner on the last evening of the cruise? Why do you suppose they did that? It was to force people to go to the dining room where they would be "shamed" into giving their servers a gratuity. Do you suppose that a lot of folks would have simply gone to the Lido for dinner on the last night in order to avoid their dining room servers, and thus not have to give them the tip that they most definitely had earned?

 

I'm not arguing with people not tipping because the service sucked. That's another issue. But it's sad when people don't tip in circumstances where they know beforehand that they should ... and in circumstances where the tip was clearly earned.

 

Just my humble opinion ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[stanford's girl]

Yes in US, the servers are required to report the tips. However, the servers that I have talked to only report a portion of their tips rather than all. Its dishonest, but people do it.

I have been a server for 25 years and I report everything I take home. Unfortunately, I am among the minority. But all it takes is one audit by the IRS and they would change their ways. Tips are income and they should be reported!JMHO:D

[stanford's girl]

When we are not cruising, if we go out to eat and there is a gratuity automatically added to the bill, chances are that is exactly the amount the server will get. It's a shame. If that wasn't already added-in, they would have done much better letting me do it myself.

 

The gratuity that is automatically added to your bill is put on by the restaurant, not the server. That doesn't all go to the server. It is split between the server, bussers, hosts, bartenders, and even sometimes the kitchen staff. So if you think your server deserves more than the auto tip, feel free to add to it.:)

While cruising, I leave the auto tip in place for service and give cash on top of it, for good service.:D

[rickcohen2]

...they could shoot themselves in the foot because that extra $200 or so will turn lots of people off.... just making the point that increasing the fare on top of what they have to because of the escalating costs of fuel and other provisions will be just too much for a fair number of their potential customers.

 

If adding the auto-tip into a cruise ticket's cost make it "just too much", I'm not sure I see how paying for a ticket and then paying the auto-tip adds-up to something less than "just too much". If a trip isn't affordable one way, I'd think it's not affordable the other way.

 

That was one of the beauties of HAL (and another): one priced a ticket and didn't have to start adding in a bunch of "not included"s.

 

I guess I'm just "stuck" in the good-ole-days and this is the way it is now. I'll adjust. But I see "the foot" being shot at as our own. We are quietly paying for (and accepting) the degradation of our sevices industries and then (sadly, but hopefully) paying again those not so inclined to mediocrity.

 

The slope has been greased. Let the games begin!

[doowillie]

As a "lurker" mostly, I don't know how to put in the quotes, but an earlier poster mentioned "payroll taxes". I'm not sure that a foreign flagged vessel employing a foreign crew pays payroll taxes. Also, the $10/day add-on is divided among dining room staff, kitchen staff, room stewards, laundry workers, housekeeping staff and so on ? I agree, they should just add the $10/day to the fare, which is essentially what it amounts to except for the small % of pax who opt out. If HAL feels $10/day is adequate,which they obviously do, then they could truly say "TIPS INCLUDED" and be like SilverSea, Seabourne, etc. One would still be free to tip extra to ones heart's content.

[rickcohen2]

If HAL feels $10/day is adequate,which they obviously do, then they could truly say "TIPS INCLUDED" and be like SilverSea, Seabourne, etc. One would still be free to tip extra to ones heart's content.

I think the auto tip protects the service staff ... prevents them from being stiffed... If service is fine ... just nothing particularly outstanding ... I don't have to worry about tips at the end of the cruise... Much nicer than having to scramble for envelopes and money for everyone.

The built-in tip would go to the "pool" (guaranteed, no opting-out possible, no stiffing, a raise) and any "extra tip" would go to those we direct as an earned gratuity.

 

• No more deciding if you want to opt-out, opt-out but self-direct, stay-in or stay-in plus self-direct.

• No more staff keeping track of who has opted-out.

• No more getting fired for not reporting tips given by people who have opted-out.

• No more pre-trip mental calculations to determine if a trip is affordable, inclusive of tips.

 

And, isn't that really were we started?

[doowillie]

Rickcohen, I suppose that would be too simple and besides, it would eliminate a topic for endless discussion on this board.

[Tikla]

I thought any extra tips were supposed to be pooled too?

[doowillie]

Tikla, if you don't opt out of the automatic tip plan, then the recipient may keep it. If you do opt out, then it's supposed to be pooled. What a record keeping nightmare that must be. Who watches or keeps up with all that ?

[calm_seas]

I thought any extra tips were supposed to be pooled too?

 

Tikla.... Not unless the tips are added to the tabs instead of given in cash. Please note my post earlier (#13) on this thread.

[travelingfun]

After you're presented with the bill for tipping, do you charge your credit card of give them cash? Thanks

[calm_seas]

After you're presented with the bill for tipping, do you charge your credit card of give them cash? Thanks

 

I am not sure of your reference to "After you're presented with the bill for tipping". If you are asking about the bill for the auto-tip portion of the cruise, all lines that I have been on (HAL, Celebrity, RCCI, NCL) that do the auto-tipping, post this as a "daily" charge to your itemized shipboard account charges, similar to what you would find as a service charge at a hotel on land. At the end of the cruise, that is settled in the same manner as you would any of your other shipboard charges (credit card, cash, travelers checks).

 

Tips that you wish to give, above and beyond the auto-tipping, are customarily given directly to the person to whom you wish it to go, and are given in cash, as the staff and crew have no access to credit card services. Naturally, this is at your convenience. Some prefer to tip an extra bit of cash to a server each time for the bar or room service delivery, while others wait until toward the end of the cruise and tip a single sum to each person who has performed special services for them. :)

[jhannah]

You don't get a bill for tips. It's included as a daily charge to your stateroom account.

[Oceanwench]

We gave extra tips to our cabin steward, dining room server and his assistant and the wine steward. They were all outstanding and worked very hard.

We left the auto-tip on.

 

Last week DH spoke to Mr. Deering, the hotel manager for the Zuiderdam, about the auto-tipping policy and its success.

He said that when HAL's policy was "tipping not required," about 30 percent of the pax did not tip.

With the auto-tipping policy, only 2 to 3 percent remove the tips and do not tip at all.

 

On our last night in the dining room, we did not see any envelopes changing hands. That's not to say that other pax did not tip extra, just that we did not observe any.

Our two daughters and their boyfriends were also onboard with us, and they also kept the auto-tip plus tipped extra. All four of them [in their 20s] have worked in as servers/bartenders, and they know the hard work involved in the service industry!

[stormyc]

I like the current tipping policy.

 

This way I know everyone, including the behind-the-scenes people, are being included in the standardized tipping. (I will refrain from commentary regarding anyone who removes the auto-tip. :( )

 

Additionally, I then have the option at my discretion to tip extra to anyone who specifically enhanced my cruise experience.

 

Works for me! :)

[bobg]

We did our fifth and last HAL cruise last October. I do not like the $10 auto tip, particularly the way HAL is also implementing it. The Cruise director told us that $3 of the "tip" was going to the kitchen staff as an incentive. We were encouraged to individually tip extra. Thus the HAL's trend is for the $10 to become a surcharge and you should tip extra. The method I want is for me to be allowed to direct how ALL the $10 is distributed -- then it is a TIP. I have no problem with the 15% charge on drinks.

 

I also do not like HAL's increasing corkage to $15. Our future 5 cruises per year will all be on Princess, Celebrity or Marco Polo.