Lawsuit by Cabin Stewards against NCL's wage structure

[smeyer418]

• June 13, 2012
  
• Warren King, et al. v. NCL Bahamas, Ltd.
  
• Response in Opposition to Motion for Summary Judgment
  
• Our attorney's have fought for seaman's rights since 1971. This includes making sure that seaman working on cruise ships receive fair compensation. In this case the Plaintiffs, a group of room stewards, allege that Norwegian Cruise Lines enacted a scheme to deprive its employees of the entirety of their wages. The Plaintiffs seek those wages and penalty wages to which they are entitled under the Seaman's Wage Act. The Defendant argues that the claims presented by the Plaintiffs are not cognizable under the law. In response the Plaintiffs point out that in an indentical case, the Southern District of Florida has already found that the claims are valid. Additionally, the Plaintiffs lay out the evidence that supports their claims, proving that an issue of fact remains for determination at trial.
  

As most people know I post on tipping threads and one thing I have been saying is that there has been no reported lawsuit that the dsc is diverted from the employees. This is such a lawsuit. Its in the early stages and this is the first report I have seen on it.

 

 

Its from a newsletter from one of the plaintiff law firms....

although it does appear from the papers this is because of the practice of hiring helpers on turn around days...

[chloe173]

So if you actually read through the whole argument, you learn a couple interesting things.

 

1. This is not the first case by room stewards against NCL. The Wallace case has been around since at least 2009, and the plaintiffs in this case initially tried to be added as a class to that lawsuit. Based on how it was referenced, that case either was settled, dismissed, or is ongoing; no final court decision is referenced, only decisions on procedural motions.

 

2. The issue doesn't have anything to do with DSC. The issue is that each "senior steward" had to turn around about 30 rooms each on embarkation day, in about a 4-hour period. This was an "impossible task" to complete in the time given, and so they were encouraged by their supervisors to hire helpers who the stewards had to pay out of their own pocket.

 

3. A "senior stateroom steward" makes just over 33k per year (before this issue of needing to pay helpers). Considering they also receive food and board while on ship, it's actually a pretty decent wage. And that's all before any tips they receive.

 

4. As of at least 2012, NCL has restructured their housekeeping department so that this is no longer an issue.

 

 

It should also be noted that this isn't the court's record, it's the argument from the plaintiff's attorneys, so it's all written in the light most favorable to them. Not saying NCL didn't necessarily do anything shady, but just that you should always consider where the info is coming from.

[davesgirl51]

So if you actually read through the whole argument, you learn a couple interesting things.

 

1. This is not the first case by room stewards against NCL. The Wallace case has been around since at least 2009, and the plaintiffs in this case initially tried to be added as a class to that lawsuit. Based on how it was referenced, that case either was settled, dismissed, or is ongoing; no final court decision is referenced, only decisions on procedural motions.

 

2. The issue doesn't have anything to do with DSC. The issue is that each "senior steward" had to turn around about 30 rooms each on embarkation day, in about a 4-hour period. This was an "impossible task" to complete in the time given, and so they were encouraged by their supervisors to hire helpers who the stewards had to pay out of their own pocket.

 

3. A "senior stateroom steward" makes just over 33k per year (before this issue of needing to pay helpers). Considering they also receive food and board while on ship, it's actually a pretty decent wage. And that's all before any tips they receive.

 

4. As of at least 2012, NCL has restructured their housekeeping department so that this is no longer an issue.

 

 

It should also be noted that this isn't the court's record, it's the argument from the plaintiff's attorneys, so it's all written in the light most favorable to them. Not saying NCL didn't necessarily do anything shady, but just that you should always consider where the info is coming from.

 

33K untaxed (presuming this includes the DSC). Phew. + Tips untaxed. Let me see - $25 (avg) per cabin for 7 day cruise x 30 cabins = $750 X 39 weeks (9 month contract)= 29.25K + 33K = $62,250 per year UNTAXED !!! And they get room and board !!! Momma Mia. Phew. OMG. Someone tell me PLEASE that my math is off in some significant fashion. :eek: WOW ! I am gonna apply for a job.

[Bethwte]

33K untaxed (presuming this includes the DSC). Phew. + Tips untaxed. Let me see - $25 (avg) per cabin for 7 day cruise x 30 cabins = $750 X 39 weeks (9 month contract)= 29.25K + 33K = $62,250 per year UNTAXED !!! And they get room and board !!! Momma Mia. Phew. OMG. Someone tell me PLEASE that my math is off in some significant fashion. :eek: WOW ! I am gonna apply for a job.

 

And if NCL is anything like any other cruise line I have been on, they work darn hard for that money. Eat, sleep (in a tiny room with at least one but probably more people), work long hours (and deal with insane passenger requests), and maybe a couple of hours a week off the ship, for NINE months (nine months away from your family as well). I can't even imagine...

[bakerintn]

".....Someone tell me PLEASE that my math is off in some significant fashion. WOW ! I am gonna apply for a job...."

 

I think that you will find that the goes in to a pool and is awarded by NCL not on a pro-rata basis, but on performance reviews. Also, supervisors get some of the DSC as well

[davesgirl51]

And if NCL is anything like any other cruise line I have been on, they work darn hard for that money. Eat, sleep (in a tiny room with at least one but probably more people), work long hours (and deal with insane passenger requests), and maybe a couple of hours a week off the ship, for NINE months (nine months away from your family as well). I can't even imagine...

 

Yes, I am well aware of that. All of it. :)

[davesgirl51]

".....Someone tell me PLEASE that my math is off in some significant fashion. WOW ! I am gonna apply for a job...."

 

I think that you will find that the goes in to a pool and is awarded by NCL not on a pro-rata basis, but on performance reviews. Also, supervisors get some of the DSC as well

 

I don't believe their tips (separate and distinct from DSC) from us go into a pool.

[Zeta3]

And if NCL is anything like any other cruise line I have been on, they work darn hard for that money. Eat, sleep (in a tiny room with at least one but probably more people), work long hours (and deal with insane passenger requests), and maybe a couple of hours a week off the ship, for NINE months (nine months away from your family as well). I can't even imagine...

 

Kind of like folks in the military?

 

On the Epic nearly everybody if not everybody has their own cabin. I would be interesting to see the cabin situation on breakaway and Getaway.

[Bethwte]

Kind of like folks in the military?

 

Was thinking about that as I typed actually. Was not on topic and therefore chose not to add anything about it. Either way, not anything I would volunteer for, but I have multitudes of respect for those who do it (and respect for other reasons for military personal of course). I have a high-stress job that not many can or would want to do as well, so different strokes for different folks.

 

Your comment about the Epic single-rooms has me curious - I wonder if it would be intrusive to ask my cabin steward what the crew room is like on that ship?

[tootsiescurly]

33K untaxed (presuming this includes the DSC). Phew. + Tips untaxed. Let me see - $25 (avg) per cabin for 7 day cruise x 30 cabins = $750 X 39 weeks (9 month contract)= 29.25K + 33K = $62,250 per year UNTAXED !!! And they get room and board !!! Momma Mia. Phew. OMG. Someone tell me PLEASE that my math is off in some significant fashion. :eek: WOW ! I am gonna apply for a job.

Please you can't honestly believe they make that much money!!!:eek:

[davesgirl51]

Was thinking about that as I typed actually. Was not on topic and therefore chose not to add anything about it. Either way, not anything I would volunteer for, but I have multitudes of respect for those who do it (and respect for other reasons for military personal of course). I have a high-stress job that not many can or would want to do as well, so different strokes for different folks.

 

Your comment about the Epic single-rooms has me curious - I wonder if it would be intrusive to ask my cabin steward what the crew room is like on that ship?

 

Do you mean the crew room or their stateroom ? I don't think they'd mind at all.

[davesgirl51]

Please you can't honestly believe they make that much money!!!:eek:

 

That was my point. Exactly.

[njhorseman]

33K untaxed (presuming this includes the DSC). Phew. + Tips untaxed. Let me see - $25 (avg) per cabin for 7 day cruise x 30 cabins = $750 X 39 weeks (9 month contract)= 29.25K + 33K = $62,250 per year UNTAXED !!! And they get room and board !!! Momma Mia. Phew. OMG. Someone tell me PLEASE that my math is off in some significant fashion. :eek: WOW ! I am gonna apply for a job.

 

I think your assumption that the stewards receive an average of $25 per cabin per week in tips (over and above the DSC) is way too high. I'd guess that the majority of cruisers leave nothing additional for the stewards, just as they leave nothing additional for the wait staff.

 

IMO you can't go by what you read about additional tipping on this forum because it's heavily populated by the cruise lines's fans. Also a disproportionate number of the regular posters on this NCL board are suite passengers or Casinos at Sea guests who are probably on average bigger tippers than the typical family cruising on a strict budget with 3 or 4 people jammed into a standard inside or outside cabin.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

That was my point. Exactly.

 

I'd always been lead to believe that they made the salary of 33K mostly from the tips, not 33K plus tips but maybe NCL has a different pay structure than other lines.

 

Bill

[davesgirl51]

I think your assumption that the stewards receive an average of $25 per cabin per week in tips (over and above the DSC) is way too high. I'd guess that the majority of cruisers leave nothing additional for the stewards, just as they leave nothing additional for the wait staff.

 

IMO you can't go by what you read about additional tipping on this forum because it's heavily populated by the cruise lines's fans. Also a disproportionate number of the regular posters on this NCL board are suite passengers or Casinos at Sea guests who are probably on average bigger tippers than the typical family cruising on a strict budget with 3 or 4 people jammed into a standard inside or outside cabin.

 

You're probably right.

[davesgirl51]

I have a tendency to read <what people who post on here> as the truth. I should know better. :o

[Single Cruiser]

Do you mean the crew room or their stateroom ? I don't think they'd mind at all.

 

Crew staterooms on Epic tend to be two rooms that share an ensuite bathroom, so room, bathroom, room, room, bathroom.. Down the corridor .

 

Depending on the crew status it's either single or bunks (single bunk for 2) compared to older ships where often waiting staff would be 4 to a cabin and a shared bathroom down the corridor!

 

Also read this!

 

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/staticPage.html?pageId=NCLS.LifeOnboard

[chloe173]

I'd always been lead to believe that they made the salary of 33K mostly from the tips, not 33K plus tips but maybe NCL has a different pay structure than other lines.

 

Bill

 

If you actually read the argument linked in the OP, you'll see that's not the case. The 33k is strictly their wages that they receive from NCL.

 

I also tend to agree that most cruisers probably don't leave additional tips for their stewards. I'd assume they maybe get $10k or less in tips per year (1/3 of cabins tipping x $10-20 average tip x 50 cruises a year = 5-10k)

 

Also someone on here mentioned that they only work 9 months a year. I have no clue if that's true or not of most crew members, but if that's the case, then it's more like $25k per year in wages +tips, room, and board.

[njhorseman]

I have a tendency to read <what people who post on here> as the truth. I should know better. :o

 

It's not that what is being posted here isn't truthful, but rather that the posters are not representative of the typical cruiser, so you can't use what someone says and assume it represents a reasonable average for all passengers.

[smeyer418]

If you actually read the argument linked in the OP, you'll see that's not the case. The 33k is strictly their wages that they receive from NCL.

 

I also tend to agree that most cruisers probably don't leave additional tips for their stewards. I'd assume they maybe get $10k or less in tips per year (1/3 of cabins tipping x $10-20 average tip x 50 cruises a year = 5-10k)

 

Also someone on here mentioned that they only work 9 months a year. I have no clue if that's true or not of most crew members, but if that's the case, then it's more like $25k per year in wages +tips, room, and board.

I am sure you are wrong. what the amount represents is the minimum draw which includes the base salary and the minimum amount of the dsc that by contract they must get. I have explained this before. Its not the salary but an amount by contract that includes their minimum share of the DSC. What the lawsuit says is because they have to share that with an assistant it violates US law.

[njhorseman]

I am sure you are wrong. what the amount represents is the minimum draw which includes the base salary and the minimum amount of the dsc that by contract they must get. I have explained this before. Its not the salary but an amount by contract that includes their minimum share of the DSC. What the lawsuit says is because they have to share that with an assistant it violates US law.

 

I suspect you're misunderstanding what the poster chloe173 means by "wages". Taking their prior posts and the questions they were answering into account, I'm pretty sure that by "wages" chloe173 means base salary plus their share of the DSC. The answer that was being disputed was when S. S. Oceanlover said that the $33K came mostly from "tips". Unfortunately, some people seem to use "tips" and DSC as if they were interchangeable, and of course they're not.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I suspect you're misunderstanding what the poster chloe173 means by "wages". Taking their prior posts and the questions they were answering into account, I'm pretty sure that by "wages" chloe173 means base salary plus their share of the DSC. The answer that was being disputed was when S. S. Oceanlover said that the $33K came mostly from "tips". Unfortunately, some people seem to use "tips" and DSC as if they were interchangeable, and of course they're not.

 

Just to clarify, yes I did mean DSC and not tips.

 

Still kinda new to NCL and didn't think to differentiate between the 2 as most other lines just call them tips.

 

Bill

[chloe173]

I suspect you're misunderstanding what the poster chloe173 means by "wages". Taking their prior posts and the questions they were answering into account, I'm pretty sure that by "wages" chloe173 means base salary plus their share of the DSC. The answer that was being disputed was when S. S. Oceanlover said that the $33K came mostly from "tips". Unfortunately, some people seem to use "tips" and DSC as if they were interchangeable, and of course they're not.

 

Yes, exactly. When I say "wages" I mean the total amount of money they receive from NCL, and that would include DSC share.

 

When I say "tips" I mean cash tips left for the specific steward that are in addition to whatever the guest has already paid in DSC.

 

The stewards earn wages + tips, room, and board.

[SissasMomE]

Just to clarify, yes I did mean DSC and not tips.

 

Still kinda new to NCL and didn't think to differentiate between the 2 as most other lines just call them tips.

 

Bill

 

Regardless of what some like to believe, it IS the same thing. I always get a kick out of the folks who insist they are dfferent. Anyway, Some give extra in addition to what is automatically added to the onboard account.

[ClaireAndMike]

Hell, that's about what I make! Before taxes.