Why is Craps so good on Cruise Ships

[Dicenator]

centrevillemom,

 

That same video which I first saw in January 2008 was my first exposure to what some call dice control. Since I am an engineer and understand physics, motion, momentum, conservation of energy and all the other physical properties involved with throwing the dice, I was somewhat skeptical but not totally. I decided to experiment. I bought some dice, some pyramid rubber felt and billiard felt for a top covering. This I assembled on my dining room table and basically created what I would consider a normal bounce table such as you find in casinos with felt layouts.

 

Now for the hard part. Every throw has to be identical and land in the same spot on the table to have any chance at all of influencing the result. I created data sheets in excel and started recording my results from my daily practice sessions. I practiced probably 6 days a week making 40 to 50 throws per day before I took my throw to a casino for the first time in February of 2008.

 

From the beginning my throwing was better than the 1 in 6 throws being a 7. I record my throws in a 3" by 5" notepad when in the casino and I've done this I think from April of 2008 and I continue to do this to this day.

Without data how do you know how you are doing? Are you improving? Do you do better in certain casinos? What about different layouts, felt versus microfiber? What about on a normal bounce table versus a very bouncy table?

 

Without collecting data you can't answer these questions. Another benefit of having actual in casino roll data is when I get home I can put this information in a spreadsheet and experiment with different betting techniques. There are only so many ways of throwing the dice but literally thousands of different ways to bet or strategies to use.

 

 

Dicenator

[Dicenator]

lsteffa,

 

I never called you stupid or a loser, I said that you might be. My response to you was because of your mocking tone concerning my making money on 16 out of 17 cruises. I didn't quote any dollar amounts. If I'm up $5 for a week of play that is a win. Nowhere am I claiming thousands of dollars won on every cruise. In fact most of the time its in the $300 to $500 range for a week long cruise. You don't know me and have no right to be mocking.

 

 

Dicenator

[Grandpaul]

My sons Father-in-Law set up a table in his garage to practice this procedure. He's a retired funeral home owner so he knows stats. LOL. He was doing real well in casinos but has noticed the change in tables recently and has switched to blackjack. Used to be interesting watching him play dice in his garage. And my twin Granddaughters trying to figure out the game.

[LSTEFFA]

norwich,

 

I use the hard way dice set with the 3's on top and the 5's facing me. My main intent is to avoid 7s. Instead of the statistical 1 in 6 I've reduced my 7s to 1 in 11. My extra throws per hand are distributed with a +1.5% on the 6 and 8, + 1% on the 5 and 9 and +.5% on the 4 and 10. All of these numbers are rounded.

 

On a cruise ship I usually have $200 per day for gambling. For each day that I'm up starting on day #1 I therefore have more per day to risk.

 

 

Dicenator

Dicenator... I have just one more simple question. Do your dice rolling stats really show that you roll a 7 (seven) once for every eleven (11) rolls

per your quotes above. Thanks

[Dicenator]

LSTEFFA,

 

I'm not going to answer that question and open myself to more sarcasm and mocking.

 

Anything number wise that I quote is based upon my results in Atlantic City at the casinos I play in regularly.

 

You can check for yourself by adding the hand lengths on some of my trip reports and dividing by the number of hands. This will give you my average roll length which counts from the come out throw through the 7 out. If you back out maybe 2 come out throws per hand on average from this number that is the number of point cycle throws per hand which is the number I quoted.

 

My numbers aren't quite the same as what I get in Atlantic City but they are good. I just checked my reports from the Norwegian Gem and the Carnival Miracle and they are good.

 

Dicenator

[LSTEFFA]

LSTEFFA,

 

I'm not going to answer that question and open myself to more sarcasm and mocking.

 

Anything number wise that I quote is based upon my results in Atlantic City at the casinos I play in regularly.

 

You can check for yourself by adding the hand lengths on some of my trip reports and dividing by the number of hands. This will give you my average roll length which counts from the come out throw through the 7 out. If you back out maybe 2 come out throws per hand on average from this number that is the number of point cycle throws per hand which is the number I quoted.

 

My numbers aren't quite the same as what I get in Atlantic City but they are good. I just checked my reports from the Norwegian Gem and the Carnival Miracle and they are good.

 

Dicenator

No problem.....Good luck to you

[centrevillemom]

Pretty funny that people actually believe in something like dice control. Lots of internet sites supporting it which isn't surprising. Here's one that lends some common sense to a theory that's pretty much impossible:rolleyes:

 

http://brokopp.casinocitytimes.com/article/dice-control-fact-or-fiction-502

 

But of course you won't change the opinion of the believers. I've seen LOTS of people win 1500.00 who weren't delusional enough to claim dice control as the reason :rolleyes:

 

I finally got around to reading the above article. I found this part a little confusing;

 

"I also have found myself "handicapping" the shooters. I check out their shooting technique, and make mental notes of their past rolls."

 

Why? If it's all chance according to this author, so why does it matter how they rolled previously?

[LSTEFFA]

I finally got around to reading the above article. I found this part a little confusing;

 

"I also have found myself "handicapping" the shooters. I check out their shooting technique, and make mental notes of their past rolls."

 

Why? If it's all chance according to this author, so why does it matter how they rolled previously?

About 10+ years ago on the Atlantic City boardwalk, a huckster had a little trained monkey who would roll the dice on a little mini-craps table for tips.The gent told the crowd the monkey was hot & made 10 passes that morning. The motto of the story..."even a monkey can shoot the dice".

[Grandpaul]

I remember that monkey. How about the bird who you couldn't beat at tic tac toe?

[OldSeaDog1969]

Sorry but must jump back in on this discussion.

 

LSTEFFA...........Dicenator will not show anyone his stats because he knows he will be found out to be a fraud. I asked him already. His claims that his skill at throwing the dice circumvent proven odds is a joke in itself,

 

As to the other posters, you have the right to your agree with Dicenator's opinion but please don't forget that others have the right to disagree as this is a forum for discussion. If someone wants to post complete & utter rubbish is up to him but he brings ridicule on himself for doing so.

 

I had once had a player [i'm a Casino Manager] who had everyone believing that if they stood on one leg when they threw the dice the roll would last longer [this is no joke]. Obviously the law of math had other ideas.

[Dicenator]

OLD SEA SNAKE,

 

I was wondering when you were going to inject some of your venom into this discussion. That's why I am calling you OLD SEA SNAKE.

 

There is one thing that we might agree on and that is the average hand length of the average craps player. I've read that the number is 8.25 throws per hand on average. Now this makes sense to me since the 7 will show up statistically 1 in 6 throws. So you add for some come out winners and the 8.25 seems reasonable. AGREED?

 

You are claiming that I refuse to present any proof that I far exceed the 1 in 6 statistical norm for a 7 out.

 

I hate to disappoint you but this evidence is in every trip report that I've issued on this message board and that covers maybe 10 or more cruises. Go to any of my trip reports where I report my hand length for every hand thrown. Just add up my total throws for the cruise and divide by the total number of hands thrown and you will have my average hand length. You will see that this number exceeds the 8.25 average I discussed above. Over the 10 or more cruises the total number of throws has got to be at least 4,000 to 5,000 over years so this precludes you claiming any kind of one time getting lucky scenario.

 

Another thing you will see is the average number of points that I make per hand. An average craps player will make 1 point every 2.5 hands or .4 points per hand. If you check my total points made divided by the number of hands thrown you will see that I exceed 1.0 points per hand which is another sign of competence.

 

So why don't you stop with your words like ridicule, do some homework and then I'll accept your apology.

 

Dicenator

[OldSeaDog1969]

OLD SEA SNAKE,

 

I was wondering when you were going to inject some of your venom into this discussion. That's why I am calling you OLD SEA SNAKE.

 

There is one thing that we might agree on and that is the average hand length of the average craps player. I've read that the number is 8.25 throws per hand on average. Now this makes sense to me since the 7 will show up statistically 1 in 6 throws. So you add for some come out winners and the 8.25 seems reasonable. AGREED?

 

You are claiming that I refuse to present any proof that I far exceed the 1 in 6 statistical norm for a 7 out.

 

I hate to disappoint you but this evidence is in every trip report that I've issued on this message board and that covers maybe 10 or more cruises. Go to any of my trip reports where I report my hand length for every hand thrown. Just add up my total throws for the cruise and divide by the total number of hands thrown and you will have my average hand length. You will see that this number exceeds the 8.25 average I discussed above. Over the 10 or more cruises the total number of throws has got to be at least 4,000 to 5,000 over years so this precludes you claiming any kind of one time getting lucky scenario.

 

Another thing you will see is the average number of points that I make per hand. An average craps player will make 1 point every 2.5 hands or .4 points per hand. If you check my total points made divided by the number of hands thrown you will see that I exceed 1.0 points per hand which is another sign of competence.

 

So why don't you stop with your words like ridicule, do some homework and then I'll accept your apology.

 

Dicenator

 

Your words taken from a previous thread [Craps Table Bounce Characteristics on Norwegian Ships]

 

"Again you are entitled to your opinion as am I, but my opinion is grounded in facts which I do not intend to submit to any mathematician to verify. I am a retired engineer and am very well versed in probablility and statistics since I used these for over 40 years during my career".

 

30,000 recorded rolls in 5 years all recorded. Quite amazing & actually very sad. Just like the Roulette player who believes just because there have been a dozen red numbers spun that the next one must be black.

 

Old Sea Snake..........what a great play on words. It must have taken you ages to come up with that in between trying to mislead other forum members in to believing the utter nonsense that you write. Cue the fact that when anyone challenges you in the slightest you throw your rattle out of your pram.

 

Can't remember the last time I apologized to someone that has zero clue what they are talking about.

 

I sincerely hope to meet you one day at a craps table. The pleasure will be all mine & I will even buy you a drink on the house.

[Dicenator]

I will gladly accept that drink and I would hope that you would bet on me when I am shooting the dice and make some money. Maybe if you saw my results in person for a week you would change your opinion.

 

I am departing tomorrow 3/22 on the Norwegian Gem for a 9 night cruise. I was on this ship a year and a half ago and found the table to be OK for the way I throw. I will post my trip report when I return and hopefully I will have a win.

 

 

Dicenator

[LSTEFFA]

I will gladly accept that drink and I would hope that you would bet on me when I am shooting the dice and make some money. Maybe if you saw my results in person for a week you would change your opinion.

 

I am departing tomorrow 3/22 on the Norwegian Gem for a 9 night cruise. I was on this ship a year and a half ago and found the table to be OK for the way I throw. I will post my trip report when I return and hopefully I will have a win.

 

 

Dicenator

Now that you have apparently mastered the art of DI, ramp up your betting strategy and win some $$$$.

[OldSeaDog1969]

Now that you have apparently mastered the art of DI, ramp up your betting strategy and win some $$$$.

 

My sentiments exactly as it is the only way to play & a lot more fun.

 

On my last vacation at the Mirage in Vegas I started with $34 the insides & cashed out $5,500 after a 20 minute roll.

[OldSeaDog1969]

I will gladly accept that drink and I would hope that you would bet on me when I am shooting the dice and make some money. Maybe if you saw my results in person for a week you would change your opinion.

 

I am departing tomorrow 3/22 on the Norwegian Gem for a 9 night cruise. I was on this ship a year and a half ago and found the table to be OK for the way I throw. I will post my trip report when I return and hopefully I will have a win.

 

 

Dicenator

 

I bet I spot you before you spot me...............:D

[LSTEFFA]

My sentiments exactly as it is the only way to play & a lot more fun.

 

On my last vacation at the Mirage in Vegas I started with $34 the insides & cashed out $5,500 after a 20 minute roll.

Nice Hit!!! I heard that the only two things casino's fear are #1) Drunks #2) Power Pressors.....well maybe not the drunks so much. Did you play in LV across the street @ Casino Royale? $5 game with 100X odds + pay the Vig after it hit on the 4/10 Buy bets. For some reason they are down to two craps tables & they are jammed always.

[jsmeeker]

Nice Hit!!! I heard that the only two things casino's fear are #1) Drunks #2) Power Pressors.....well maybe not the drunks so much. Did you play in LV across the street @ Casino Royale? $5 game with 100X odds + pay the Vig after it hit on the 4/10 Buy bets. For some reason they are down to two craps tables & they are jammed always.

 

I've never seen more than 2 dice tables in there. Of course, I only started going in there maybe 5 or 6 years ago.

Edited March 21, 2013 by jsmeeker

[Dicenator]

Old Sea Dog

 

I went into my trip reports and pulled out my throwing information for my main way of throwing which is Underhand.

 

These numbers will be calculated as AVERAGE ROLL LENGTH. I don't think that you disagree that the average craps player has an average roll length of 8.25. The following listing is alphabetical not chronological.

 

 

SHIP TOTAL ROLLS # HANDS AVG/HAND

 

Car. Glory 136 13 10.46

Car. Legend 409 38 10.76

Car. Miracle 642 48 13.38

Car. Pride 251 17 14.76

Car. Valor 526 40 13.15

Cel. Summit 508 50 10.16

RC Enchantment 388 25 15.52

RC Explorer 741 62 11.95

Nor. Gem 144 9 16.00

Nor. Jewel 665 61 10.90

Nor. Star 197 17 11.59

 

TOTAL 4,607 380 12.12

 

With 4,607 throws covering 11 cruises on different ships I think that this shows that I'm very very very lucky.

 

Dicenator

[LSTEFFA]

I've never seen more than 2 dice tables in there. Of course, I only started going in there maybe 5 or 6 years ago.

Jeff...They had three tables up front until January and now have two.

The casino manager (Art) said they will probably go back to three.

They have real weird rules on the 100X odds table. For some reason from

5:00AM to 10:00 AM it goes down to 20X odds....back to 100X at 10:00. The QT explanation was management wanted some "quiet" down time from possible big hits....20X odds is a pretty strong game for a time out period.

[LSTEFFA]

Old Sea Dog

 

I went into my trip reports and pulled out my throwing information for my main way of throwing which is Underhand.

 

These numbers will be calculated as AVERAGE ROLL LENGTH. I don't think that you disagree that the average craps player has an average roll length of 8.25. The following listing is alphabetical not chronological.

 

 

SHIP TOTAL ROLLS # HANDS AVG/HAND

 

Car. Glory 136 13 10.46

Car. Legend 409 38 10.76

Car. Miracle 642 48 13.38

Car. Pride 251 17 14.76

Car. Valor 526 40 13.15

Cel. Summit 508 50 10.16

RC Enchantment 388 25 15.52

RC Explorer 741 62 11.95

Nor. Gem 144 9 16.00

Nor. Jewel 665 61 10.90

Nor. Star 197 17 11.59

 

TOTAL 4,607 380 12.12

 

With 4,607 throws covering 11 cruises on different ships I think that this shows that I'm very very very lucky.

 

Dicenator

Lord Almighty...you tracked 4607 ROLLS???? Have some fun on your GEM cruise & play without the pad & pencil.

[OldSeaDog1969]

Nice Hit!!! I heard that the only two things casino's fear are #1) Drunks #2) Power Pressors.....well maybe not the drunks so much. Did you play in LV across the street @ Casino Royale? $5 game with 100X odds + pay the Vig after it hit on the 4/10 Buy bets. For some reason they are down to two craps tables & they are jammed always.

 

You're not wrong LSTEFFA. Both are very dangerous with drunks less so as they invariably play their winnings back. Lets just say I was a little of both that night. The free Stella Artois fueled my power pressing :D

I stayed at the Luxor on my last stay & only played at the Mirage twice. Might give Casino Royale a try. I do however prefer a less busy table as I like a fast game. Thanks for the heads up though.

[OldSeaDog1969]

Old Sea Dog

 

I went into my trip reports and pulled out my throwing information for my main way of throwing which is Underhand.

 

These numbers will be calculated as AVERAGE ROLL LENGTH. I don't think that you disagree that the average craps player has an average roll length of 8.25. The following listing is alphabetical not chronological.

 

 

SHIP TOTAL ROLLS # HANDS AVG/HAND

 

Car. Glory 136 13 10.46

Car. Legend 409 38 10.76

Car. Miracle 642 48 13.38

Car. Pride 251 17 14.76

Car. Valor 526 40 13.15

Cel. Summit 508 50 10.16

RC Enchantment 388 25 15.52

RC Explorer 741 62 11.95

Nor. Gem 144 9 16.00

Nor. Jewel 665 61 10.90

Nor. Star 197 17 11.59

 

TOTAL 4,607 380 12.12

 

With 4,607 throws covering 11 cruises on different ships I think that this shows that I'm very very very lucky.

 

Dicenator

 

Interesting stats & plausible. However 4607 rolls may seem a lot but it is a very very low number for a case study. Gaming odds, house edge, & game hold are done over millions & millions of decisions.

 

If it rocks your boat continue your study.

[vwrestler171]

Seriously, why do you 2 feel the need to come in here and just criticize what Dicenator does/has done, whether or not you agree with him or not is irrelevant. Everyone has their own way to play and if his is working for him, who are you to tell him that it's wrong? Personally regardless if he can control the dice or not, his track record makes him someone I would like to have on my table.

[OldSeaDog1969]

Seriously, why do you 2 feel the need to come in here and just criticize what Dicenator does/has done, whether or not you agree with him or not is irrelevant. Everyone has their own way to play and if his is working for him, who are you to tell him that it's wrong? Personally regardless if he can control the dice or not, his track record makes him someone I would like to have on my table.

 

This is a "forum". Look up the word in the dictionary so you can understand what it means. What exactly is wrong with debating a subject. Must we all conform to what others say & never question. I believe we live in a world where opinion & free speech is important.

You are right that Dicenator can have an opinion but so can anyone else including yourself. However don't tell me that I should not come on a forum & give my opinion on what someone has posted.

If you look at my previous post I even offered to buy the guy a drink on the house if he plays at my craps table on my ship.

 

Take a chill pill mate & don't take life so seriously.