Which is safer, stewards trolley or mobility scooter

[daiB]

Apparently Princess allow scooters etc in their 'mini suites'. These are the same as balconies on Ventura/Azura D deck. there are almost 190 of them.

 

Princess and P&O have the same ships and the same parent company. Where is the joined up thinking?

 

P&O safety experts decide that 50 is the max safe limit

Princess safety experts decide that 190 is the max safe limit

 

on the same ships :confused:

 

I do not think anyone has looked at that way. There are rarely more than 12 and the figure of 50 is the max with every suite having a scooter user. That is not going to happen.

 

All I am calling for is fairness for the scooter users, equality with everyone else.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

Dai

[simonpjd]

But you dont get that fairness in cinemas, theatres, buses, trains etc. I think you need to win those battles first to have a chance. Can you take your scooter into a WestEnd theatre - no you cannot. Win that first. On a ship the safety angle will always outweigh fairness - and rightly so. Be thankful that at least some places are kept open - I believe there are some lines who ban then altogether and, from a seaman's point of view, I can understand that - especially on older smaller vessels.

Meanwhile I hope we meet up one day in the Crows Nest and we can have a drink together and think how lucky we are to be able to spend some time on these brilliant ships being looked after so well. Enough said.

[Sutho]

The steward trolleys are not left in corridors indefinitely. It is only fair to force disabled passengers to keep their aparatus in the cabin with them. It is inconsiderate of them to book a cabin and expect the special treatment by parking their chairs or scooters outside in other peoples way. I have reported incidents like this on several occasions and on all times I report them P&O staff confiscate the chair from the passageway and warn the passengers they will be disembarked if they keep it up.

 

It is a safety concern and staff need to know where these chairs are at all times. If their is a fire then having a chair block the passageway could endanger hundreds of passengers lives. When staff know where the chairs are they focus on the area where they are known to be with more staff.

 

Also disabled cabins are kept in mid zones closer to evacuation areas so they do not have to cross several fire door bounderies in an evacuation.

[bazzaw]

There must be a line in the sand somewhere - in regards to the obvious desirability for older and disabled people to do "things".

 

On a recent cruise (Cunard), I witnessed a VERY small, frail and elderly lady, leading her BLIND husband by the hand and attempting to board a pitching tender boat alongside the ship. It was difficult enough for able bodied people to clamber onboard and get to a seat without hurting themselves. The tender boat staff did manage to get them to a seat - but it was "touch and go" -- I wonder what would have happened if they had been injured???

 

Barry

[Captain Beefheart]

Passengers who can walk short distances can still take onboard foldable w/chairs into standard cabins as long as they are stored in their cabins overnight when not in use thus allowing them to be mobile around the ship.

It is because alot of scootes were being taken onboard for convenience rather than as a necessity that has made P&O introduce this new rule.

They won,t change rule because health and safety will always over rule equalities act Oct 2010.

Strange though how Princess ships that embark from UK ports still allow passengers to take scooters onboard in standard cabins even though they are also part of Carnival UK ?

[daiB]

Passengers who can walk short distances can still take onboard foldable w/chairs into standard cabins as long as they are stored in their cabins overnight when not in use thus allowing them to be mobile around the ship.

It is because alot of scootes were being taken onboard for convenience rather than as a necessity that has made P&O introduce this new rule.

They won,t change rule because health and safety will always over rule equalities act Oct 2010.

Strange though how Princess ships that embark from UK ports still allow passengers to take scooters onboard in standard cabins even though they are also part of Carnival UK ?

 

You have evidence of this. I have never seen any. It is only speculation. I know of no one who takes a scooter for convenience.

 

It does not become true just because people say it on here.

 

I find it completely offensive.

 

 

 

Dai

[Captain Beefheart]

Yes i have seen it, i have seen people who use a scooter through the day but walk around the ship at night quite happily.

In case you are wondering i am a full time w/chair user,who uses the scooter during the day and my w/chair at night.

[somersettop]

Having Travelled with my mum who is a scooter user, I wanted to say that its a shame that P and O have not thought this through. My mum does not need the features of a disabled cabin, she uses a scooter as she cant walk long distances. We coped well with an Inside twin. She was a bit upset when i told her about the as she felt that she wold be taking away a cabin that someone else might need.

 

And dont get me stareted on the fact that with the new pricing someone who will be forced to use a disabled cabin they dont really need will be unable to book a last minute Getaway fare

[daiB]

Having Travelled with my mum who is a scooter user, I wanted to say that its a shame that P and O have not thought this through. My mum does not need the features of a disabled cabin, she uses a scooter as she cant walk long distances. We coped well with an Inside twin. She was a bit upset when i told her about the as she felt that she wold be taking away a cabin that someone else might need.

 

And dont get me stareted on the fact that with the new pricing someone who will be forced to use a disabled cabin they dont really need will be unable to book a last minute Getaway fare

 

Agree fully. Exactly our situation only it is me on the scooter. I am very lucky to be able to cruise in a suite but many others are not.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[Sutho]

Having Travelled with my mum who is a scooter user, I wanted to say that its a shame that P and O have not thought this through. My mum does not need the features of a disabled cabin, she uses a scooter as she cant walk long distances. We coped well with an Inside twin. She was a bit upset when i told her about the as she felt that she wold be taking away a cabin that someone else might need.

 

And dont get me stareted on the fact that with the new pricing someone who will be forced to use a disabled cabin they dont really need will be unable to book a last minute Getaway fare

 

If someone is using a scooter they have no right to book a standard cabin and try to keep the scooter outside. That is inconsiderate and disrespectufl and dangerous. If they have a scooter book a disabled cabin. Do not be cheapskates. The cabins are there for a reason. You are not depriving anyone of anything by using a disabled cabin if you have a scooter.

 

A ship can be a dangerous place. For the people who lack the intelligence to understand how dangerous it is, the ship has disabled cabins placed in location easy for the crew to get to in case of an emergency. They are near passageways and are not down the ends of corridors.

 

Imagine this scenario. A ship takes on water and lists. The slope of the ship is so great that the persons scooter lacks the power output to move up a slope resulting in the passenger getting trapped in a passageway and trapping passengers behind them because of their inconsiderate greed to have a cheap cabin.

 

The policy is in place for a reason. To keep passengers safe.

[bazzaw]

I agree with you Sutho -- but you are gamer than me!!!! :D

 

Another issue is that there are scooters - and there are scooters. Some seem to be quite small - while others are the size of trucks :)

 

Barry

[Sutho]

I agree with you Sutho -- but you are gamer than me!!!! :D

 

Another issue is that there are scooters - and there are scooters. Some seem to be quite small - while others are the size of trucks :)

 

Barry

 

I think all ex Navy people or people who have worked at sea know the rules and how dangerous a ship is. The rules are there for peoples own safety. Too often the cruise lines agree and say yes all the time.

 

We could list 100's reasons why it is dangerous for scooters in cerrain areas apart from disabled cabins but it seems pointless as the message will never get across to everyone.

[Captain Beefheart]

W/chair accessible cabins are for what they say they are for, people who are full time w/chair users that require the use of full adaptions of these cabins, not for people to use for taking a scooter on board for convenience rather than neccessity.They have the opportunity of booking a mini- suites or full suites if they do wish to take a scooter on board.

[daiB]

If someone is using a scooter they have no right to book a standard cabin and try to keep the scooter outside. That is inconsiderate and disrespectufl and dangerous. If they have a scooter book a disabled cabin. Do not be cheapskates. The cabins are there for a reason. You are not depriving anyone of anything by using a disabled cabin if you have a scooter.

 

A ship can be a dangerous place. For the people who lack the intelligence to understand how dangerous it is, the ship has disabled cabins placed in location easy for the crew to get to in case of an emergency. They are near passageways and are not down the ends of corridors.

 

Imagine this scenario. A ship takes on water and lists. The slope of the ship is so great that the persons scooter lacks the power output to move up a slope resulting in the passenger getting trapped in a passageway and trapping passengers behind them because of their inconsiderate greed to have a cheap cabin.

 

The policy is in place for a reason. To keep passengers safe.

 

Can you show me where exactly anyone has asked to keep a scooter outside a cabin?

 

If you cannot, your post does not make any sense.

 

The only argument is that there are cabins big enough for a scooter, which are not suites, but scooter users cannot use them. Because of a blanket ban. Eg superior deluxe on Azura/Ventura.

 

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[Sutho]

W/chair accessible cabins are for what they say they are for, people who are full time w/chair users that require the use of full adaptions of these cabins, not for people to use for taking a scooter on board for convenience rather than neccessity.They have the opportunity of booking a mini- suites or full suites if they do wish to take a scooter on board.

 

There is no difference between the two people at all. It is either a scooter or wheelchair to choose from. It may be different disabilities that effect their ability to walk but there is absolutely no difference between the two.

 

If you are talking about extremely lazy people with no disability and take a scooter because they are too lazy to get off their backside and walk around then these people do not deserve any sympathy at all and do not deserve the special treatment. Riding in a scooter to claim the perks of the disabled is just downright low. It is the lowest of the low to pretend to be disabled to claim a benefit or perk.

[daiB]

There is no difference between the two people at all. It is either a scooter or wheelchair to choose from. It may be different disabilities that effect their ability to walk but there is absolutely no difference between the two.

 

If you are talking about extremely lazy people with no disability and take a scooter because they are too lazy to get off their backside and walk around then these people do not deserve any sympathy at all and do not deserve the special treatment. Riding in a scooter to claim the perks of the disabled is just downright low. It is the lowest of the low to pretend to be disabled to claim a benefit or perk.

 

Now we are in danger of agreeing.

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:eek:

[daiB]

W/chair accessible cabins are for what they say they are for, people who are full time w/chair users that require the use of full adaptions of these cabins, not for people to use for taking a scooter on board for convenience rather than neccessity.They have the opportunity of booking a mini- suites or full suites if they do wish to take a scooter on board.

 

Not according to P&O. States in the T & Cs that Adapted cabins are for scooter users and wheelchair users.

 

 

 

Not that I necessarily agree with that.

 

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai:cool:

[Captain Beefheart]

Sutho,yes these lazy people are exactly the sort that i am talking about.

[Sutho]

Sutho,yes these lazy people are exactly the sort that i am talking about.

 

That creates a big issue because these people should not be allowed to bring a scooter on if they are physically able to walk and move around but too lazy to walk.

 

I was under the impression when people booked they were supposed to declare any disability in order for it to be looked after. There is also a quota that the ship can accommodate. When you look at the deck plans of the ships the disabled cabins are located right on or close to the cross passageways. This is done for several safety reasons. One reason is that they do not have to cross the heavy fire doors that line the passageways. (imagine a non disabled person getting an end cabin in a scooter and a fire occurs and the doors are shut. How will that person escape particularly on a scooter).

 

Ships are compartmentalised with fire doors, safety rooms that lead to evacuation areas. Most public rooms have to double as a safety room that leads to the lifeboats on the promenade deck. It makes sense to keep the disabled cabins in a area easy to access and evacuate.

 

Passengers may not be aware of where the fire barrier doors are but they cannot be obstructed by anything. Even a scooter left outside a cabin next to a fire door is dangerous.

 

The rules are there for a reason. I personally think anyone pretending to be disabled to get a perk and benefit does not deserve to be on these ships, go on flights etc. Lazy people who pretend to be disabled really need to be black listed by all travel companies.

[Captain Beefheart]

Sutho,the problem is that unlike the American lines that have to adhere to the new ADA laws that will fine passengers and cruise lines for allowing this to happen there is no such European law for the UK companies.

[dsrdsrdsr]

If you are talking about extremely lazy people with no disability and take a scooter because they are too lazy to get off their backside and walk around then these people do not deserve any sympathy at all and do not deserve the special treatment.

Are there any such people? I've no doubt there are plenty of people who can walk perfectly adequately over short distances but who couldn't manage to walk the length of a ship. And I've no doubt there are plenty of people who appear to walk perfectly adequately but who are in constant pain when they try. But I've never heard of people who can walk for miles with no discomfort using a scooter.

[Captain Beefheart]

Agreed there are people who can walk short distances. But the purposes of the fully adapted w/chair cabins are to allow full time w/chair users who are not able to walk to be able to go on a cruise.I have seen people who use a scooter in the day but walk quite happily about the ship at night .

All these discussions are being brought about by P&O not thinking out their policies thoroughly.

[bazzaw]

In a limited attempt to come to the defence of P&O, I believe that making policy in these kind of matters is not easy - and probably a lose-lose situation for the Company and its personnel.

 

The bottom line is that they have decided that NO scooters or wheelchairs should be left outside in the hallways - so they must be put away somewhere. Where then should they be put.? There are big scooters and small scooters, there are some that can be folded and some that can't, there are some users who are completely dependent on them and there are others that aren't, there are big cabins and small cabins, there are some users who declare their level of disability and there are some that don't.

 

I don't believe that the Company can really treat this matter on a case-by-case basis and therefore have to make an all encompassing Policy. Once you make an all-encompassing Policy - a one size fits all policy - then everybody must fit into that shoe and some are going to be squeezed. :)

 

If the FULL truth of the matter is considered, just as there are some activities which do preclude disabled people from participating , the very size of some of these ships also will prevent some from using them. Personally, as a non-disabled person, I find these large ships exhausting to get around and I cannot imagine trying to be on one for any length of time if I had difficulty with walking. I think that I would have to rethink my "hobbies" if/when that happens.

 

Barry

[daiB]

In a limited attempt to come to the defence of P&O, I believe that making policy in these kind of matters is not easy - and probably a lose-lose situation for the Company and its personnel.

 

The bottom line is that they have decided that NO scooters or wheelchairs should be left outside in the hallways - so they must be put away somewhere. Where then should they be put.? There are big scooters and small scooters, there are some that can be folded and some that can't, there are some users who are completely dependent on them and there are others that aren't, there are big cabins and small cabins, there are some users who declare their level of disability and there are some that don't.

 

I don't believe that the Company can really treat this matter on a case-by-case basis and therefore have to make an all encompassing Policy. Once you make an all-encompassing Policy - a one size fits all policy - then everybody must fit into that shoe and some are going to be squeezed. :)

 

If the FULL truth of the matter is considered, just as there are some activities which do preclude disabled people from participating , the very size of some of these ships also will prevent some from using them. Personally, as a non-disabled person, I find these large ships exhausting to get around and I cannot imagine trying to be on one for any length of time if I had difficulty with walking. I think that I would have to rethink my "hobbies" if/when that happens.

 

Barry

 

 

Sorry your last para is out of order the whole point about equality is that disabled people are helped to do things that others take for granted. There should be no barriers.

 

Your underlined section is completely right. Never been an argument.

 

If the cabin is big enough for a scooter in safety then they should be available. As i have said the superior deluxe on Azura/Ventura are big enough, on Princess they are mini-suites. I have used these cabins and I could drive my scooter past the bed, turn it round and park it opposite the couch. Out of the way no problem.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[bazzaw]

Sorry your last para is out of order the whole point about equality is that disabled people are helped to do things that others take for granted. There should be no barriers.

 

Dai

 

Dai

 

I don't believe that I am "out of order" at all. It is plainly obvious that not everybody is capable of doing all things. A blind man cannot see. A man with no legs cannot walk. There will obviously be SOME activities from which they are precluded - regardless of how much support/assistance they get from others.It is an unrealistic dream to demand that all people be able to do all things equally well - or perhaps to even do them at all.

 

I understand your point that any disabled person who can afford a large suite "could" realistically use them. However, I don't like the use of the word "should" - as in should be able to use them. There are probably reasons why P&O do not agree with this - some of which have been said by Sutho

 

Barry