Which is safer, stewards trolley or mobility scooter

[Lesstax]

Passengers who can walk short distances can still take onboard foldable w/chairs into standard cabins as long as they are stored in their cabins overnight when not in use thus allowing them to be mobile around the ship.

It is because alot of scootes were being taken onboard for convenience rather than as a necessity that has made P&O introduce this new rule.

They won,t change rule because health and safety will always over rule equalities act Oct 2010.

Strange though how Princess ships that embark from UK ports still allow passengers to take scooters onboard in standard cabins even though they are also part of Carnival UK ?

 

Sorry to join in late, but my mother cruising on Arcadia Next Sunday, has recently had to start using a scooter as walking leaves her completely breathless. I obtained a folding Luggy, and after informing P&O was told that she had to upgrade to a more expensive cabin.

 

On a sunday morning i phoned P&O bookings under the guise of booking my elderly parents on this same cruise. I informed the sales person that my mother used a foldable mobility scooter, and I had heard they could only have certain cabins. She helpfully told me that was wrong and they could in fact be stored under the bed.

 

I thanked her, and phoned back again to talk with CS, who informed me I had misheard. I offered them the opportunity to call up the recording and call me back.

 

Over the next couple of hours, along with much "tooing and frooing" it was confirmed that only certain cabins can take scooters (foldable or otherwise) and they would need to upgrade.

 

At this point I should state that I had obtained a quote for a suite on this cruise and insisted that the difference between price quoted and price already paid was all they were willing to spend.

 

Eventually they caved in and they are happilly looking forward to the cruise, albeit only after being threatened with a similar experience awaiting the CEO on the monday morning.

 

So please be warned what ever the sales staff tell you, you could be denied boarding or worse still sailaway with your scooter sitting on the dock.

[daiB]

Dai

 

I don't believe that I am "out of order" at all. It is plainly obvious that not everybody is capable of doing all things. A blind man cannot see. A man with no legs cannot walk. There will obviously be SOME activities from which they are precluded - regardless of how much support/assistance they get from others.It is an unrealistic dream to demand that all people be able to do all things equally well - or perhaps to even do them at all.

 

I understand your point that any disabled person who can afford a large suite "could" realistically use them. However, I don't like the use of the word "should" - as in should be able to use them. There are probably reasons why P&O do not agree with this - some of which have been said by Sutho

 

Barry

 

Barry you misunderstand what I am saying at the moment a scooter user can use an adapted cabin or a suite no problem. However there are some other cabins which are large enough for scooters without causing a H&S problem. These should be identified and be available to scooter users.

 

Equality means breaking down barriers not putting them up again. They certainly look after people with a disability better in the US. I have not seen rules like this over there. They have laws against it. Your statement about what disabled people can do is fairly insulting. I think the Paralympics showed what disabled people can do. They will never get the chance to do anything if attitudes do not change.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

 

Dai

[kimberleyb1961]

I am a quad and am dependent on my power chair for both mobility and to keep my blood pressure under control. As an able bodied person, your body receives positional clues, environmental clues and emotional clues and appropriately reacts to those clues to keep your body in a state of homeostasis. One example is that when it is hot outside and your core body temperature rises, you begin to sweat and that sweat cools you off. Conversely, when it is cold outside and your core body temperature begins to drop, you start to shiver which raises your body temperature to help keep you warm. My body gets none of those clues. So, my very, very expensive power chair adjusts, reclines, moves my legs, etc. to help my body adjust to those missing clues. It is a very necessary piece of equipment.

 

But, I am newly a quad. Before I was able bodied. I had no problems. Except for getting a little tired when spending the entire day exploring a port or a ship. Ah, yes, a scooter would be a nice little luxury I would think. But aside from enjoying that little luxury, it wasn't necessary and it wasn't needed.

 

Now that I am a quad, I notice so many scooters around, mostly rentals or the cheap ones you can get for a couple of grand. In fact, I notice so many of them are being used to bypass lines and like a segway and easy way for overweight and lazy individuals to get around. I don't begrudge the use of them by people who truly need them, in fact, please go ahead of me in line because I have to stay in this chair and I do not need to be at the front of the line or jump the line simply because I'm in a chair and disabled. In fact, I can wait. Put me at the end of the line, my situation isn't going to change or my enjoyment lessened because I am in this chair and in this chair I am going to stay.

 

I think the problem lies in the fact that anybody who has the money can either buy a scooter or rent one and if it means that they won't have to stand in line and maybe get on a ride at Disneyland faster, then they don't mind paying the fee at all, its a way of making their day easier, a way of skirting the lines and the rules and since its relatively affordable these days, rent away they will if they need it or not.

 

And then you find the people who will book a handicapped accessible cabin or hotel room because they are larger and better than a standard cabin or room preventing those who need them for being able to access them because they know that they cannot be asked to divulge their disability or have their disability questioned. It has become acceptable to use whatever method necessary to insure that your experience is better than everybody else's. Its the ME generation. And the ME generation is becoming very, very lazy.

 

I see it whenever I try to use the handicapped stall in public. There may be 25 able bodied stalls, half of them empty, but I cannot use any of them, yet the three teenage girls are giggling away in the HC stall using the mirror to style their hair and change their clothes. I've had accidents waiting to use the HC stall when a young able bodied person takes their sweet time in the one stall I can use.

 

I see it in an entire family on rented scooters as they drive side by side blocking off entire sidewalks or streetways at an amusement park as I get separated from my group because I have to wait for them to pass.

 

If you have a genuine disability and cannot walk or stand, then by all means you are entitled to mobility assistance. But not because you are overweight or don't like walking or standing or waiting in line. And I think these are the types of people the lines are trying to reduce, but in the end run, the ones they are hurting are those who are truly disabled.

 

It would have been much easier and cheaper for me to have been able to book an accessible cabin, but those were all taken up by people with mobility issues. All the line could tell me was that they all were listed as "scooter" users. And that could mean that they aren't disabled at all or just minorly disabled and of course that could also mean that they have real, serious disabilities. We don't know, the line doesn't know and also, they can't ask. They can't even ask for proof of disability. But, for me to get a handicapped placard (which I also feel is abused) I have to present a doctor's signed statement of disability. And even that statement covers the gamut from inconvenienced by disability to just plain too lazy to walk. And again, its almost impossible to find a van accessible handicapped parking spot, especially with the giant truck on giant wheels that requires a four foot jump just to get in the cab taking up those spots. How do those who are truly handicapped get up in those things. Even if its an invisible handicapped like heart disease or respiratory disease, I think just getting in and out of one of those trucks would put more pressure on your disability than walking into the store. But again, I don't mind having to park two parking lots over just to get a regular spot in the far corner of the lot (where nobody parks) because I am in a power chair and it takes no more energy for me to get from the back of the lot into the store than from the front of the lot.

 

We are becoming a nation of lazy and obese individuals who are so ego centric that the needs of others fall far away and from the need of the one. At that is causing problems in the halls of cruise ships. Its not the power chairs or scooters of those who really need them that are blocking the halls, its the rental scooters for those who feign disability in order to get a better experience for themselves.

 

So, the cruise line makes these rulings in order to cut down on the "scooter club" but at the same time making it difficult for those who really need the mobility device.

 

We can't really judge who needs them or not, because every situation is different. However, when you see an entire family on rented scooters or teens taking turns riding in the wheelchair that allows them to bypass lines, then you have to question the disability and the motives of those who may abuse them.

 

Its the abuse of the system that is making it difficult for those who need to use the system.

[kimberleyb1961]

Are there any such people? I've no doubt there are plenty of people who can walk perfectly adequately over short distances but who couldn't manage to walk the length of a ship. And I've no doubt there are plenty of people who appear to walk perfectly adequately but who are in constant pain when they try. But I've never heard of people who can walk for miles with no discomfort using a scooter.

 

Actually walking many miles will cause pain and exhaustion even in the most fit of individuals. When I could walk, a day at Disneyland (a good 5 mile walk in addition to hours and hours of standing in line) would cause pain in the ball of my foot and aching and sore muscles the very next day. But it was an accepted part of "The Disneyland Experience" No one ever thought of getting a wheelchair and having someone push them around all day just so they wouldn't get tired. And, at first, when Disneyland started out renting ECV's for their customers, they were in very, very limited supply and if you rented one and didn't appear to suffer any disability, they could and would ask you to relinquish the ECV to someone who really needed it, just like they did with the wheelchairs. But now, the parks are clogged with rented ECVs even as far as renting them to complete families. The ECV line for Pirates is even longer a wait than going through the regular line because of this and they never run out of ECVs to rent. They aren't always being used by people who need them, just by people who want to beat the line and not be tired at the end of the day. As a quad, in a power chair, I'm just as exhausted now after a day at Disneyland than I was when I could walk. And thats just a part of life.

[bazzaw]

Kimberyb

 

Thank you for your posting(s)

 

I can see that you are a very mature, considerate, reasonable and realistic human being.

 

Barry

[daiB]

Kimberyb

 

 

You are quite correct that if people misuse scooters or chairs this is totally wrong and hurts people who are disabled as it allows people who are fit to dismiss us all as being lazy etc. The trouble is that many people have disabilities which are not always visible. You cannot tell if someone is disabled or not just by looking.

 

The discussion on this board started with someone complaining about the stewards trolleys left in the corridors of P&O ships and how difficult it was to get by in a wheelchair. as you can see it has ranged far and wide.

 

You are clearly from the U S A, what rules do they have about disabled cruisers over there.

 

I myself am a scooter user having had polio as a child.

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

 

:cool:

[kimberleyb1961]

Thank you Barry for your fine words and Gan, in the US, its the lazies who rule the world over here. I am well aware that there are many disabilities that are not apparent, but us yankees seem to be ruled by the lazy, me first attitude. You cannot inquire about the nature of a disability here in the US. A lot of people use that to their advantage and abuse the "privileges" that they feel are accorded handicapped individuals. They aren't privileges but accommodations. For example, in order to load a wheelchair individual into a Disneyland ride, HC riders enter through the rear of the ride, by passing the hour wait. That is because you have to shut the ride down for a HC person to transfer onto a ride vehicle. Selfish, able bodied individuals view this, not as a way to allow HC individuals to enjoy the same ride as able bodied individuals, but as a personal affront to their "rights" so they will rent an ECV to bypass the lines. And, because scooters are so inexpensive to rent or buy, a lot of people get them just so they don't have to get up off their lazy tookies and walk. They use them to demand preferential treatment, beat the lines and beat the system. For the most part, people who are truly disabled and need power chairs for mobility issues they will be of the medical grade kind and paid for by their insurance. Some one who breaks a leg of tears their knee out of has recent surgery will rent one, but again, it will be medical grade and paid for by the insurance company. Except for in the rarest of occasions, where there is a true disability, the clue to those abusing the system is the ownership of a very inexpensive scooter or chair (like the hoverround chair) or a rental of such. In fact abuse of the system is so overwhelming here in the US, one of the "qualifications" for getting a non-medical grade scooter or chair is answering "yes" to the question "Do you get tired after walking long distances?" Well, with all the obesity in the US, the answer is overwhelmingly "Yes" That equate to free scooters and benefits to those who are merely lazy and not truly disabled. I am a fluffy woman, but I never used a chair or scooter until I became a quad. I stood in lines until my feet hurt and walked miles at theme parks. And I was exhausted at the end of the day. Would using a scooter have made my day better? Sure! But my use when others might have needed the equipment I considered unconscionable.

 

The law is designed to prevent embarrassment of individuals from having to disclose personal health issues. And to assure that disabled individuals have access to the same experiences that able bodied individuals have access to. For a deaf person, that means a closed caption show. For a blind person, that means having a descriptive recording describing what is being seen. For a disabled person in a wheelchair it means having the ability to enjoy the same ride as others. It is not meant for someone to buy a cane, or rent a scooter to take part in these "benefits" And as long as the able-bodied view these accommodations as perks, privileges or benefits, then the abuse will continue. And sadly, that means that cruise lines are going to prevent those who really need to leave their chairs in the hall because they won't fit in their room because the halls are too crowded because of those who abuse their system. And it has to be infuriating that they will allow trolleys in the halls, but not the disabled mobility device. Especially when it affects those truly affected.

 

And no matter how many accommodations that Disney makes in its rides, I will never be able to ride Star Tours, Space Mountain or Splash mountain because I am unable to step down or up. And my darling 62 year old husband can get me in and out of my chair, but can't lower me into a ride vehicle and then pick me up out of said vehicle. I can't enjoy the pools on a ship unless they have a hoyer lift to get me into and out of the water. I can handle two or three shallow steps, but not a ladder. If there isn't an elevator or clear pathway on the ship, I can't get there. Unless there is a shower in my cabin, I have to go to the spa to use the shower because I cannot get into or out of a tub. These accommodations viewed as perks really push my buttons. Because I will never have the same experience as an able bodied person and I don't ever expect I will. I understand there are things that I just simply cannot and will not ever be able to do. I accept that. But don't come in and abuse those perks just so you can have a better time, because from where I sit, I'm not having a better time being in a chair, I'd do anything to be able to be able to walk, to use my hands, to ride a roller coaster to feel the ache in my legs after spending the day sightseeing. These are not perks or benefits to me, they are just they way public places try to help me to have as close as possible to the same experience as everybody else. I will never have the same experience as an able bodied person and I'm good with that.

[Dancer Bob]

I've found that truly handicapped people spend their time telling you how much they CAN do, not how much they CAN'T. Kimberly may be a bit long-winded, but is on target. I noticed that misuse is becoming a huge issue my last time in Florida.

In my own case, I have an irregular heartbeat- it must be a handicap, the government took away my driver licence when it was diagnosed, But when I was on HAL, I think I was the fittest and most active person there. Does something sound wrong here?