Possible Oceania Convert - help please

[FreedomSeeker]

It is not the website that determines which line are luxury. It's the lines themselves. And Oceania determines itself as a premium line.

 

So it makes sense that the website NOT put Oceania on their "luxury cruising"" pages, confusing people who are new to cruising (like me) into thinking that the "luxury cruising" boards are an appropriate place to ask questions about them.

 

I think this is called beating a dead horse.

 

Again, I hope the OP got the unbiased information they were looking for on the Oceania boards.

 

I haven't really gotten any more clear on what is "luxury"...there have been several definitions thrown out, most of which come down to personal preference, and some are simply what the cruise lines say about themselves. There has to be something better than that, otherwise why isn't Celebrity (Modern Luxury) included?

 

And if there isn't anything better than that, then who can say WHAT can be discussed on this forum and what cannot? Who has that right? I would say only the moderators, and they haven't done so yet, as far as I can tell.

[Travelcat2]

Agree with wripro's statement -- had not thought of that. The cruise line does determine it's category (for the most part).

 

This thread is not typical of threads on the luxury board. IMO, this is an important board to keep. Granted, there is less activity on the luxury board but that makes sense because only a small percentage of cruisers are looking for a luxury cruise experience. In most cases, if you add up the number of passengers a luxury cruise line's ship can carry at one time, it is the size of one mainstream ship. For instance, with Regent, the total passenger load for their three ships is 1,890. Seabourn with it's six ships can carry less than 2,000.

 

When people are considering a luxury cruise, there needs to be a place to ask questions. There are pluses and minuses to sailing on a luxury cruise line. And, the experiences vary from one luxury line to another. An example would be children...... many people don't know that Crystal has a children sail free program on this summer. They are obviously welcoming children. Silversea and Seabourn on the other hand are not child friendly.

 

Sorry that this thread has not been helpful but it certainly is not a reason to delete a posting board (IMHO)

[FreedomSeeker]

I didn't suggest deleting it.

 

I did suggest making it more clear what "luxury" means.

 

And saying "the cruise lines decide that" is silly.

 

Does that mean that I can say I am tall, dark, handsome, rich and debonair and it will be an accepted truth because I said so?

 

While I wish it were that simple, it isn't.

 

So, again, what defines luxury... but more importantly what defines the range of topics that are appropriate to the "luxury cruising" forum?

 

And even more importantly, WHO defines it? I don't think it should be ME, or Wripro, or Travelcat2 or LTH28....or any single member of CC....and I don't think any of us should get to police the forums based on our own opinions.

[Travelcat2]

Really do not think you are going to get your answer on CruiseCritic.

 

Cruise lines, like hotels, present their product at a certain level. Whether it is accepted at that level is up to a lot of cruise or hotel professionals. Even among the professionals, there are differences of opinion.

 

Suggest you look at the websites you are considering, read reviews and decide for yourself which cruise line you would enjoy. On CC you mostly find opinions and differences of opinions. That is the "critic" part of CruiseCritic.

 

P.S. Just noticed that you are booked on Oceania. Hopefully you have a TA that is experienced in booking cruises -- specifically on premium and luxury cruise lines. They should be able to give you the best information on Oceania (but, it still will be based on their opinion and that of their customers).

[wripro]

Conversely, suppose there were a board entitled Budget Cruising. Would you go on that to inquire about Oceania? No, because it's not a budget cruise line like Carnival or RCCL? That's all I'm saying?

[FreedomSeeker]

Conversely, suppose there were a board entitled Budget Cruising. Would you go on that to inquire about Oceania? No, because it's not a budget cruise line like Carnival or RCCL? That's all I'm saying?

 

With the knowledge I now have, no.

 

But if I were new to cruising and to CruiseCritic, and conversely CruiseCritic had a "budget crusing" section with articles and so on, and put Oceania on it (like they have with "luxury cruising"), then yes, I might do exactly that.

 

You see, the point I am trying to make, probably pointlessly now, is that for old pros like you, Wripro, you already know that Oceania isn't luxury, and you already know it isn't Budget....

 

But for those of us less experienced, we take our cues from what we see, and if CC has a whole section devoted to articles about "luxury cruising" and one of the LEAD articles is about Oceania...then, unless you already knew (as you do), that Oceania isn't really "luxury", then you might well take it as gospel (because Cruise Critic represented it as so) that Oceania IS luxury.

 

Same for the converse you just asked.

[Travelcat2]

FreedomSeeker: I do understand you point -- it can be quite confusing. However, once it was explained, it might have been better not to continue it for as long as it has been continued. The OP (aka Original Poster) was recommended to the Oceania board. Since you are booked on Oceania, this is the place where you can get your answers as well. Keep in mind that "regulars" on CruiseCritic such as wripro and myself are here to help - not to argue or cause problems. Anyone can disagree with our opinions but remember we are not posting to upset anyone:)

[FreedomSeeker]

........I guess I'll never know exactly what or who defines "luxury" in reference to the name of this forum.

 

Oh well, thanks for trying to help me understand.

 

I'm a bit of a dog with a bone when it comes to stuff like this. Sorry. I intended no offense...really just trying to get clarity.

 

I hope one day to meet the folks on this thread, since we've at least had a civil and thought-provoking discussion which is always refreshing.

[wripro]

Which is exactly why it was pointed out to you that you were in the wrong forum and wee directed to the Oceania board.

[FreedomSeeker]

Which is exactly why it was pointed out to you that you were in the wrong forum and wee directed to the Oceania board.

 

Oh dear. You're confusing me with the OP.

 

Never mind. I sent CruiseCritic an email asking them to clarify for me what THEY consider "luxury".

 

If they're going to include Oceania on the listing of lines they consider "luxury" on the main page of "luxury cruising", then it makes sense that the forum called the same thing, that there is a link to from that same page, would be an appropriate place to ask questions about Oceania to a broader spectrum of cruisers than just the Oceania boards.

 

CC seems to have a wider definition, and you a narrower one.

 

I don't really care which it is, but I do think it should be consistently applied across the whole website, including the forums.

 

I disagree that this is the wrong forum. I can't really think of where else to discuss the meaning of "luxury cruising" than the "luxury cruising" forum.

 

That all.

[Texas Tillie]

Love it!!! :D:);)

 

To all of those who've been in this (and other) discussions on Cruise Critic, please note the box at the top of this page that lists the cruise lines that are acceptable (to Cruise Critic - and after all, we are posting on their nickel here) to mention as "luxury".

 

Patty

[Oceans&Rivers]

Love it!!! :D:);)

 

To all of those who've been in this (and other) discussions on Cruise Critic, please note the box at the top of this page that lists the cruise lines that are acceptable (to Cruise Critic - and after all, we are posting on their nickel here) to mention as "luxury".

 

Patty

 

The "Luxury Cruising" forum clearly states the following:

 

"Luxury Cruising Is it a state of mind?

 

Discussion to include, but not limited to: Abercrombie & Kent • American Safari • Aqua Expeditions • Azamara • Bora Bora Cruises • Compagnie du Ponant • Cruise Asia Ltd. • Crystal • Cunard • French Country Waterways • Go Barging • Hapag-Lloyd • Hebridean • Heritage Line • Lindblad Expeditions • Oberoi Group • Oceania • Orion Expedition Cruises • Paul Gauguin Cruises • Regent Seven Seas • Sea Cloud Cruises • Seabourn • SeaDream • Silversea • Star Clippers • Travel Dynamics • Uniworld • Windstar"

 

I have cruised on Crystal in the least expensive stateroom and Oceania in the Owner's Suite, and I think it is appropriate to discuss both of them in the luxury forum.

[wripro]

According to these guidelines you were right and I was wrong. Discuss away!

[winegirl]

Having traveled on Oceania and Windstar, as well as Seabourn, I also question how "luxury" cruising is defined. It would appear that the standards of the "near luxury" lines have been raised and competition for the high end cruise dollar is fierce.

 

What it comes down to in my mind is that the traditional "luxury" 5 are "all inclusive," for the most part. However, even all inclusive means different things: some include air, some include excursions, some include some liquor (I don't think any include Chateau Lafite with your meals.) For those who don't like signing a tab, or tipping, it's nice for that to be included.

 

I personally like to select a nicer bottle of wine with dinner than is the standard offering. We drink very little aside from wine and an occasional bourbon. The furnished liquor in the Seabourn cabin went completely untouched during our cruise--we took the bottles and gave them away. We just didn't have time to drink them. Since they were varieties that we've had many times before, we didn't miss trying something new.

 

Food is subjective but Oceania's food was the most outstanding of the cruises we've been on. Most alternate restaurants were also no charge on Oceania. However, Seabourn and Windstar had wonderful food as well. Oceania's was just a notch above in variety, presentation, preparation. I also preferred the décor in the Oceania dining rooms, it was a warmer, more traditional décor that I prefer.

 

Seabourn had the nicest cabins--most space, well thought out. Extremely well maintained. Seabourn's crew was also the most professional (mostly European) although I felt the Windstar crew made us feel most welcome and pampered (they were mostly Filipino and Asian.) Seabourn also had very nice exercise facilities. The ship was spotless and spacious feeling but not crowded feeling like Oceania sometimes felt (not the newer larger ships.)

 

However, the most "luxurious" to us was Windstar. It was small enough to feel like you are sailing on a semi-private yacht, the crew was very warm and hard working, they tried to please in every way possible. We felt like we fit right in and will use Windstar again. Oceania was lovely but even their "small" ship felt like a big ship to us. Seabourn was right in the middle. Felt not to big or small. Will also use Seabourn again itinerary dependent.

 

High quality choices for everyone's taste, isn't that nice?

[Travelcat2]

Having now sailed on Oceania, I agree with the CEO's assessment that Oceania is a luxurious ultra premium cruise line. The Riviera is over the top beautiful -- class all the way. The specialty restaurants have amazing food and the penthouse and above suites are incredible -- very well thought out and designed. Of course, being a new ship, everything looks almost perfect.

 

The staterooms are more "premium", the food in the two non-reservation dining venues were good but, IMO, not luxury quality. When you purchase the wine package, the wines cost less than wines on Regent -- the luxury cruise sister to Oceania.

 

Service on both lines is excellent. Bottom line -- CC, like everyone else -- can categorize the ships any way they wish. I think it would be difficult to find a non-luxury cruise as good as Oceania's (at least on the two new ships -- cannot speak to the other three).

[wripro]

TC2,

 

But as I was so correctly informed according to the guidelines of this board Oceania qualifies as eligible to be discussed here. According to CC obviously Oceania is a luxury line.

[Travelcat2]

As I always say, "they have a right to their opinion":rolleyes: Seriously, there are things classified as "luxury" that I've never heard of.

[FreedomSeeker]

TC2,

 

But as I was so correctly informed according to the guidelines of this board Oceania qualifies as eligible to be discussed here. According to CC obviously Oceania is a luxury line.

 

 

Hi Wripro,

 

Now that a month has passed since I was in this particular thread, I re-read my posts and I come off as arrogant and rude.

 

This is particularly disconcerting as you have been a member of this forum for a long time, and I have not.

 

I came here to learn from people with more experience than me, people just like you, and instead I got on my soapbox.

 

I forced an issue which didn't need forcing, in order to simply be "right".

 

I apologize.

[FreedomSeeker]

As I always say, "they have a right to their opinion":rolleyes: Seriously, there are things classified as "luxury" that I've never heard of.

 

 

TC2, thanks for the review and comparison.

 

I think its fair to say that CC doesn't call Oceania "luxury"....they simply grouped a bunch of premium lines and luxury lines together for a forum and for articles.....

 

I've never been on Regent, Seabourn, Crystal etc.....so I have no common point of reference on what actually differentiates the "five" traditionally recognized luxury lines....you have.

 

Is there something, in your experience, that is the "tell-tale" difference?

 

Thanks

[wripro]

FreedomSeeker,

 

No need to apologize. When you've been on these boards as long as I have you realize that sometimes we say things that, if we took a moment longer to reconsider, we wouldn't say. We're here to learn and exchange ideas and if that is accomplished that's all that matters.

[Travelcat2]

TC2, thanks for the review and comparison.

 

I think its fair to say that CC doesn't call Oceania "luxury"....they simply grouped a bunch of premium lines and luxury lines together for a forum and for articles.....

 

I've never been on Regent, Seabourn, Crystal etc.....so I have no common point of reference on what actually differentiates the "five" traditionally recognized luxury lines....you have.

 

Is there something, in your experience, that is the "tell-tale" difference?

 

Thanks

 

That is really a difficult question. We have only been on Silversea and Regent and like them both -- for different reasons. We do not sail on Seabourn due to their smoking policy. Crystal gets wonderful reviews but has small cabins and only has open seating by reservation.

 

IMO, with the exception of dress code, there are many similarities between Silversea and Regent. I did a comparison a while back -- Regent excelled in some areas and Silversea in others. Both had excellent service. Food is subjective but I found the food in Regent's main dining room better than on Silversea and preferred Silversea's breakfast and lunch in their buffet restaurant.

 

Regent is the most inclusive of the luxury lines. They are the only luxury cruise line that includes some excursions. The included excursions tend to get quite crowded which, IMO, is a downside. Regent also includes economy air while Silversea does not and I believe Seabourn does sometimes. Not sure about Crystal.

 

The ships are all over the place size-wise. Crystal has the largest ships -- close to 1,000 passengers. Seabourn has three 209 passenger and three 450 passenger ships. Silversea has one 450 passenger ship, two 383 passenger ships two ships that carry approximately 300 passengers. In addition, Silversea has two small expedition ships. Regent has two 700 passenger and one 450 passenger ships.

 

Those are the main differences that I can think of. Hope it helps:-)

[FreedomSeeker]

That is really a difficult question. We have only been on Silversea and Regent and like them both -- for different reasons. We do not sail on Seabourn due to their smoking policy. Crystal gets wonderful reviews but has small cabins and only has open seating by reservation.

 

IMO, with the exception of dress code, there are many similarities between Silversea and Regent. I did a comparison a while back -- Regent excelled in some areas and Silversea in others. Both had excellent service. Food is subjective but I found the food in Regent's main dining room better than on Silversea and preferred Silversea's breakfast and lunch in their buffet restaurant.

 

Regent is the most inclusive of the luxury lines. They are the only luxury cruise line that includes some excursions. The included excursions tend to get quite crowded which, IMO, is a downside. Regent also includes economy air while Silversea does not and I believe Seabourn does sometimes. Not sure about Crystal.

 

The ships are all over the place size-wise. Crystal has the largest ships -- close to 1,000 passengers. Seabourn has three 209 passenger and three 450 passenger ships. Silversea has one 450 passenger ship, two 383 passenger ships two ships that carry approximately 300 passengers. In addition, Silversea has two small expedition ships. Regent has two 700 passenger and one 450 passenger ships.

 

Those are the main differences that I can think of. Hope it helps:-)

 

Wow, that's quite a bit of variation! But it is helpful. It seems the most common factor is the number of passengers is very low. What I would guess also is a big factor would be the number of staff in comparison?

 

Is there an easy way to find out the staff to passenger ratio? And does that number (I've seen them quoted on a couple of websites) include ALL staff (captain to engine room) or only service personnel?

[wripro]

The staff to passenger ratio includes all staff.

[Keith1010]

Wow, that's quite a bit of variation! But it is helpful. It seems the most common factor is the number of passengers is very low. What I would guess also is a big factor would be the number of staff in comparison?

 

Is there an easy way to find out the staff to passenger ratio? And does that number (I've seen them quoted on a couple of websites) include ALL staff (captain to engine room) or only service personnel?

 

Many of the cruse line web sites and/or brochures show the staff and the passenger counts.

 

An easy way to get this information, a nice writeup on just about every ship you can imagine and even definition of luxury, premium, mass market and so forth is a book that is written by Douglas Ward, published by Berlitz/ updated annually, and is called Cruising and Cruise ships. It gives lots of very good information about each cruise ship and shows the staff to passenger ratio and the space to passenger ratios.

 

I highly recommend the book and it is available on Amazon.Com or at places such as Barnes & Noble.

 

In terms of guest counts, it's no different than land. For example Four Season and Ritz Carlton provide a luxury experience and the size of the hotels within each chain varies. Same goes for Cruise Line and ships.

 

As to Luxury Lines and Premium lines most places that I look at (books, sites, etc.) consider Oceania Premium but Cruise Critic categorized them as Luxury and that is their prerogative.

 

Keith

[FreedomSeeker]

Many of the cruse line web sites and/or brochures show the staff and the passenger counts.

 

An easy way to get this information, a nice writeup on just about every ship you can imagine and even definition of luxury, premium, mass market and so forth is a book that is written by Douglas Ward, published by Berlitz/ updated annually, and is called Cruising and Cruise ships. It gives lots of very good information about each cruise ship and shows the staff to passenger ratio and the space to passenger ratios.

 

I highly recommend the book and it is available on Amazon.Com or at places such as Barnes & Noble.

 

In terms of guest counts, it's no different than land. For example Four Season and Ritz Carlton provide a luxury experience and the size of the hotels within each chain varies. Same goes for Cruise Line and ships.

 

As to Luxury Lines and Premium lines most places that I look at (books, sites, etc.) consider Oceania Premium but Cruise Critic categorized them as Luxury and that is their prerogative.

 

Keith

 

Just got the book for my Kindle. Thanks for the information.