Recycling ship names

[rosinryanz]

Why is HAL recycling ship names so rapidly? In the past year, they have retired the Westerdam and Noordam, yet now are already naming new ships by the same names. Surely a source of confusion. Sure, they have come up with a few new names, like Zuiderdam and Volendam, but surely they can come up with a few more, or wait to recycle names for a while.

[CDRMark]

Tradition.

 

Cheers

MarkB

[Esme]

Because there are just so many names they can choose from.

 

Volendam is not a new name? We sailed on Volendam III in 1981 and the new one is Volendam IV.

 

For a list of previous names check out http://www.unofficial.net/hal/shpndxfr.html

 

and you will see there are not that many names that are easy to pronounce to choose from.

[jhannah]

Ah-oh. I feel another round of suggested new ship names coming!

 

Okay. I'll start. They dedicated Zuiderdam (originally) to the Caribbean. They could dedicate a ship to visiting equatorial countries and call it the Hot-Dam.

[dougnewmanatsea]

I posted all this before but it seems to have gotten lost in the ether!

 

Anyhow, almost all HAL names are "reused". OOSTERDAM was a "new" name, created for the present ship. This was the first new HAL passenger ship name since 1973... And before that, they hadn't come up with a new name since 1946.

 

The vast majority of HAL names date to the early 20th century; some even to the 19th century (the company was founded in 1873). Many have been used many times over. ROTTERDAM is both the oldest and most-used, having been the name of the company's first ship in 1873. The current ROTTERDAM is the sixth to bear the name.

 

Runner-up for oldest is MAASDAM, also from 1873 (the company's second ship) and used five times.

 

There are many -DAM names that have been used before, but are not currently in use; however generally the company prefers to re-use the more popular, well-known names like ROTTERDAM, STATENDAM, and MAASDAM, rather than dredge up obscure ones.

 

The -DAM names currently in use, from oldest to newest

ROTTERDAM was first used in 1873, current ship is the sixth to bear the name

MAASDAM, first used 1873, current ship is fifth

AMSTERDAM, first used 1880, current ship is third

ZAANDAM, first used 1882, current ship is third

VEENDAM, first used 1888, current ship is fourth

STATENDAM, first used 1898, current ship is fifth

RYNDAM (then spelled RIJNDAM), first used 1901, current ship is third

NOORDAM, first used 1902, ship being built is fourth

VOLENDAM, first used 1921, current ship is third

ZUIDERDAM, first used 1940, current ship is second

WESTERDAM, first used 1946, current ship is third

PRINSENDAM, first used 1973, current ship is second

OOSTERDAM, first used 2003, current ship is first

 

-DAM names not currently being used include: SCHIEDAM, EDAM, LEERDAM, OBDAM, WERKENDAM, DIDAM, DUBBELDAM, POTSDAM, and NIEUW AMSTERDAM. (I think that's all of them.) Many of these names have been out of use for over a century; the only one that has been in use recently is NIEUW AMSTERDAM which is one of the most well-known HAL names. It is currently out of use to avoid confusion with AMSTERDAM.

 

HAL had retired the most recent NIEUW AMSTERDAM by the time AMSTERDAM entered service, and especially considering that AMSTERDAM is theoretically one of HAL's two flagships (the other is ROTTERDAM), I would have preferred that she be called NIEUW AMSTERDAM instead... ROTTERDAM and NIEUW AMSTERDAM are the arguably two most prestigious HAL names, having been used on HAL's two most famous ships (NEIUW AMSTERDAM of 1938 and ROTTERDAM of 1959), and so they would have made a perfect pair of names for the twin flagships. However, HAL chose to reach way back and chose the dormant name AMSTERDAM for the new ship instead. The stated reasoning behind this is that Amsterdam is the capital of the Netherlands, while Rotterdam was the founding city of HAL.

 

Aside from NIEUW AMSTERDAM, all of the other unused -DAM names have been dormant for decades.

 

There are also many HAL names which do not end in -DAM. Traditionally, HAL passenger ships were given names with -DAM endings, while cargo vessels (of which HAL once had a huge fleet) were given names ending in -DIJK (up to 1912) or -DYK (1913 onward). As the cargo fleet was much larger, there are many more -DYK than -DAM names. (The last HAL cargo ships were retired in 1975 - GAASTERDYK II, GROTEDYK, and BILDERDYK II. HAL had been winding-down their cargo operations since the mid 1960s.)

 

There are also a few names that end neither in -DYK nor in -DAM; with the exception of a few very early ships e.g. W. A. SCHOLTEN, these were ships that HAL bought from other companies and did not rename.

 

A complete list of all HAL ships from 1873 to the present can be seen here (site in Dutch).

[kruzkeen]

Thanks Doug for this information.

 

I think this continuity of names is interesting. I always enjoy looking at the paintings of the previous ships with the same names that hang in the forward (I think) stairwell of the ships.

[jhannah]

Very interesting, Doug. Thanks for posting.

[mechcc]

Thank you Doug, that is very intersting.

[bobpatj]

Doug,

 

This is so interesting. Thank you. I was aboard a small HAL ship way back in the summer of 1958. named Zuiderkruis. We sailed from New York to Rotterdam, on all student passengers crossing. A fancy cruise ship it was not! I've never found any info on this ship on any HAL site. Have you ever heard of it?

[george@sea]

A fancy cruise ship it was not! I've never found any info on this ship on any HAL site. Have you ever heard of it?

 

Just a quick guess, but is this the ship you were on?

 

http://geneaknowhow.net/in/schepen/emigr-schepen/zuiderkruis.html

[CDRMark]

So, Tradition.:)

MarkB

[stormyc]

I posted all this before but it seems to have gotten lost in the ether!...

 

Thank you very much.

[stormyc]

So, Tradition.:)

MarkB

 

LOL! :p

[dougnewmanatsea]

Thanks to everyone for your kind comments. I must admit that the first time I typed all that up and it didn't go through, I had that annoying feeling one gets whenever something gets lost to the black hole of computerness, but I had come so far as to have researched the whole thing... So after a couple of minutes of banging my head against the wall, I reposted it. It's easier the second time around anyway ;) .

 

I always enjoy looking at the paintings of the previous ships with the same names that hang in the forward (I think) stairwell of the ships.

These wonderful pieces of art are the creations of Capt. Stephen Card. For those who don't know yet, for the past few months (well, since I introduced him to these boards ;) ) we have been priveliged to have posting on our site under the user name PRINSENDAM. So next time you see one of those paintings, just think - a fellow CCer painted that :) !

 

I was aboard a small HAL ship way back in the summer of 1958. named Zuiderkruis . . . I've never found any info on this ship on any HAL site. Have you ever heard of it?

Yes, indeed I have. ZUIDERDKRUIS was one of three sister ships, nicknamed the "Three Constellations"; her name in Dutch means "Southern Cross". Her sisters were WATERMAN and GROOTE BEER (this means "Great Bear" in Dutch; it is pronounced "Grota Bear" and often misspelled). These student and emigrant ships, converted from American WWII VICTORY-class ships, were owned by the Dutch government but operated by private shipping lines. In fact, ZUIDERKRUIS was not a HAL ship; she was run by Royal Rotterdam Lloyd. WATERMAN was run by Nederland Line, and GROOTE BEER represented HAL in this trio.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Doug, I find your knowledge and this information so interesting. Thank you for giving us all this great History. I also think it is great to know about Stephen Card, I love his paintings, we normally take pictures of the paintings while on the ship. I we feel quite honored to have PRINSENDAM as a fellow CCer. Now when when we see the paintings in a few weeks on the Maasdam we can say we chat with the artist on line:)

 

Thanks,

[Copper10-8]

Doug, you are a walking HAL and cruise ship encyclopedia! Awesome and thanks for the great info. The name of the Dutch town of Monnickendam has never been used by HAL but maybe they'll start a new tradition;)

 

Take care and be safe!

John

[Vic The Parrot]

HAL isn't the only company to use the same names of former vessels. But I'm sure they hold the record!

 

Others include Cunard ... there have been 2 Mauretanias, 3 Carmanias, 3 Caronias

 

 

 

P&O .. 2 ships called Oriana so far. I hear that there might be a 2nd Canberra in the works.

 

So like many here said ... 'tradition!'

 

 

:)

[NYteacher]

My favorite has got to be DUBBELDAM!!

 

Bring back the DUBBELDAM!!!

[Himself]

Doug:

 

Lets come up with a new name. Since

HAL is the "spotless fleet" lets call a new ship the HOOVERDAM

 

Himself

 

P.S. They need to bring back the Nieuw Amsterdam and make it the size of the Volendam and Zaandam but have the outside elevators, like the Vista ships and put back the self service washers and dryers.

[jhannah]

My favorite has got to be DUBBELDAM!!

Mine, too. Blackjack players can double-down on the Dubbeldam.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Doug, you are a walking HAL and cruise ship encyclopedia!

Thanks for your kind words - but it's not as though I did that from memory ;) !

 

Most of the credit has to go to the author of the list I linked, whoever he or she may be. (Presumably a member of the organisation whose web site it is, which is a Dutch organisation of retired HAL employees.)

 

P&O .. 2 ships called Oriana so far.

Tsk tsk Vic - the first one was an ORIENT liner!

 

But in all seriousness, I wish P&O would do some more name recycling. ADONIA seemed to me to be particularly ridiculous.

 

There are so many great P&O and Orient names out there that are dormant right now - wouldn't you just love a cruise on a new IBERIA or ORCADES?

 

My favorite has got to be DUBBELDAM!!

This is a good one, but some of the -DYK names are even better.

 

BLOMMERSDYK, YSELDYK (heaven knows how one pronounces that - "easel-dike" perhaps?), KINDERDYK, GAASTERDYK, AKKRUMDYK, DONGEDYK...

 

Of course, no doubt these sound perfectly normal to the Dutch-speaker, but to those of us who are not, some of the names have a certain almost humorous ring to them!

[lknick]

Doug forgot the 4 C-4 combination ships received by HAL from Germany in 1946. These were the "Constillation" ships--Grota Bear, Noord Star and 2 others I do not remember.

[RevNeal]

While the Oosterdam is, indeed, the first ship to bear that name, the Holland America Line did have a freighter called the Oosterdijk (1913-1918). Perhaps, for future ships, the line could recycle some more of the -dijk names, swapping out -dijk for -dam.

 

That would give you ships like:

 

Aalsdam

Appingedam

Bloomersdam (a personal favorite ... and kids wouldn't understand it)

Damsterdam

Kamperdam

Moerdam

Schiedam

 

:)

 

I still say the Leerdam and the Dubbeldam should be brought back. Perhaps, if they build a couple of ships that are slightly larger versions of the Vista class (like we've been hearing lately), the can name one the Dubbeldam and say "Double the size, double the fun, Dubbeldam."

[Druke I]

Yes, the first Oriana was an Orient Line ship (no relation to the current Orient Line), but that company merged with P&O in the late 60s.

 

First time I was on Oriana, it had the corn yellow hull of Orient Lines, second time the white hull of P&O. She was a lovely ship in her day - sure looks horrible now, after partially capsizing in China last year.

 

I agree with Host Doug, P&O should recycle more of the old Orient Line and P&O names. Perhaps they should have a new series of "three Straths", and we are overdue for another Himalaya.

 

One thing I would like to see added to recycled names would be a numeric identifier, to reduce confusion when taking about ships between "old" and "new".

[Krazy Kruizers]

Being a veteran cruiser, it doesn't bother me if they name the new ships the same as the old ships that have been sold within a short period of time. But I do fell sorry for new cruisers who aren't certain whether they are going to be on the old Westerdam or the new vista class ship Westerdam and the same goes for the Noordam.