Silver Shadow Fails Sanitation Inspection After Caught Hiding Filthy Conditions from

[FAP16]

I forwarded this info to my AMEX TA asking her to get an explanation from Silversea and to cancel my booking on the Shadow for a Feb 2014 sailing.

 

She forwarded this info to The AMEX Marketing Rep in NYC who in return contacted Silversea. They apparently are going to be issuing a statement shortly. We shall see. The lack of such a response thus far is very disappointing and gets to the integrity of Silversea senior management.

 

We can rationalize this away. However, I believe the only way to force Silversea to respond is to impact their bottom line. Thus, my cancelation. If people refuse to put up with this and stop booking cruises they will either need to respond or go out of business.

[commodoredave]

I am disgusted by SilverSea's lies and cheating, and by the excuse makers on this thread who want to gloss over the cruise line's dismal behaviour. There are too many other luxury lines out there to put up with this nonsense. However, I will hold off cancelling my 2014 booking until we hear what Silversea has to say. It better be good.

[Merriem]

Since our cruise on the Shadow April 2012 was poor, and we are now book on the Whisper this November, and final payment has been made, I am bothered. Can they be trusted?

[Rally]

I am disgusted by SilverSea's lies and cheating, and by the excuse makers on this thread who want to gloss over the cruise line's dismal behaviour. There are too many other luxury lines out there to put up with this nonsense. However, I will hold off cancelling my 2014 booking until we hear what Silversea has to say. It better be good.

 

I agree, but sorry, haven't seen any "excuse makers." Where do you see glossing over?

[oregon50]

FWIW, we have an October booking on Shadow, so we do have some interest in the current story. It's a "freebie" booking that has been changed several times over the past eighteen months. I just wanted to get it off the books before the year ends. We are disgusted by the current news being reported. Are we surprised? Not at all.

UKJeff has been way ahead about what goes on behind the curtain at SS.

[Alaska_baby!]

Wow. I will be on the Shadow (unless my boyfriend flips out after I show him this) in only a couple weeks. I sure hope SS is über sensitive to their failing the inspection and the ship is ultra clean for us!!

 

Contacting my TA now.

 

We were already looking for our second SS cruise- unsure now. Happens in all cruise lines?!? Maybe we should stick to land.

[UKCruiseJeff]

UKJeff has been way ahead about what goes on behind the curtain at SS.

 

 

Thanks.

 

I think what has been one of the big "hurts" from my point of view is reading the employees account of the lengths that SS had gone to to cheat him out of his earnings. We will all make up our own minds. I believe Marin Asenov's account of the hours he worked and what they did to cheat him and what they went on to do when he objected to the insitional cheating of staff and custoimers he claims.

 

What hurts is thinking back over all of the SS threads with respect to the rights and wrongs of tipping. Without revisiting those debates, the debate did take place in good faith on both sides and was reliant on the assurances that SS staff were properly and adequately paid.

 

If their overtime rate was $4.72 and Marin Asenov was even cheated out of that so that he worked very long hours for free then I find myself feeling very uncomfrtable about buying products from a company that exploits it's imprisoned staff. He was even blackmailed out of his return ticket for complaining about his treatment.

 

The assurances that SS give their customers with respect to tipping is a triple whammy from my point of view. I view my life as being fortunate to be able to enjoy things like SS. But like many here, things haven't always been that way for me. So, I also feel acutely aware that others aren't as fortunate as me and therefore feel strongly of my (limited) responsibility to those that look after me and ensure I have a good time. "There but for the grace of G*d, could have been me". I feel a real sense of solidarity with the staff I encounter on SS.

 

I relied on the assurances given to me from SS that I needn't worry about the staff and tipping because SS looked after their staff well. This now seems to be totally untrue. So I feel a tripple cheat. As I said in the previous thread I tip individuals and the pool fund. But I did so believing it was in addition to the part of my fare that was taken directly to replace the tips that I otherwise would have made and that most choose not to. They were not only not doing this - they were retaining that notional cash for themselves. They say:

 

GRATUITIES INCLUDED

All onboard gratuities are included — none are ever expected.

 

But this needs to be explained to me. What is meant exactly by included? Included and kept evidently. If they don't even pay for the hours the staff work - how am I supposed to believe that a part of the fares I have been paying has been converted into tips and given to the staff?

 

Angry. Very, very angry.

[sakaara]

I have to admit that I too am beyond shocked and upset with what I have read yesterday about Silver Shadow's despicable conduct regarding hygiene and beverage deception, not to mention crew treatment.

I spoke with Sylvia in Silversea Uk this morning who was apparently just made aware of this today. She told me that they were only allegations at present and needed to be investigated further. With regard to premium booze swapping she said it was a crew member who stated this and he may have a grievance with the cruise line and there was no evidence to substantiate it.

 

A few minutes after my call I was contacted by the manager of customer services who told me the 84 score was correct.

Further investigations were to be made but Silversea feel this is an isolated incident to Shadow and the booze swapping also needs to be investigated.

I said that Cruise Critic members were extremely concerned and would like a statement and a truthful confession. I told him I didn't believe it was only 1 ship and that F&B Managers Hotel Directors etc move from ship to ship and that this practice is unlikely to be contained to only one ship.

 

I mentioned that when asking for Champagne on board Silver Spirit we were served Prosecco unless we said Blue Top Monopole by Name.

 

In The end I was told that there will be an announcement made and that he would contact me personally.

[fizzy]

We are also rather upset and annoyed with this whole mess. I have always been irritated with that automatic charity deduction thing. The integrity of SS certainly is certainly in question. I would also like some answers before final payment is due. I find the trust thing more disturbing than the food thing. After 25 years in the restaurant business, I assure you that some "stuff" goes on routinely that would horrify the general public. These are upscale spots that I speak of. If staff are being cheated and threatened as is implied, we have a big problem with that. I wonder how an insurance company would handle a cancelation claim from someone who is so put off by a lack of response from SS regarding such serious allegations that they refused to sail?

[A and A]

I emailed Silversea as we're booked on Shadow in September. I got the following response:

 

"Thank you very much for your email.Naturally I can understand your concerns and I would like to assure you that this is being investigated now.I personally have never heard anything like this on any of our ships. Therefore, we at Silversea are taking this matter very seriously indeed.As soon as I have some more information, I will be in touch.Thank you once again for bringing this article to our attention."

 

Let's wait and see...........

[UKCruiseJeff]

I want to thank those that have taken trouble to contact SS with their concerns. The only trigger point for SS is recognition that a lack of an approach with integrity has it's consequences.

 

What I think is positive about the way that this thread has evolved is how even those that disagreed in the past are at one with this issue. I hope it prevails and that we maintain a spirit of agreeement of the core issues here and how we as customers expect ourselves and SS staff to be treated.

 

This is a watershed moment for both SS and in a way participants here.

 

The response from SS if or when it comes must be really detailed. Not an idiot response. Sensible people will see through a lack of detai and candour. Some will accept anything they say. Not me. So far nothing, but the "night is young" although we are in my view approaching dawn. If they are genuinely taking this seriously then they have had a long time since the allegations and inspection and so far staff are saying "we know nothing". Not good enough.

 

I'd also like to see more of the "highly respected" and prolific posters here also show support and solidarity with this thread and with the issues exposed. Let us judge ourselves, and them and SS on how we and they respond to this issue.

[A and A]

You're so right Jeff - we all need to make it known that we won't tolerate anything but absolute integrity. I've now had an email from the customer service manager but it is very much a 'nothing' response - very bla, bla, standard stuff. He admits the report is genuine but other than that makes statements like "already addressed and corrected issues". I've emailed back asking for the detail of the issues that have been addressed and exactly how they have been corrected.

[seabreezer]

What a disappointment! Too bad we are beyond the cancellation window and I did not purchase insurance....otherwise I would have to strongly consider cancelling because of the pay dispute more than the sanitation issues. When traveling, unless I am dining in a Three Star, I assume the worst regarding sanitation. Read "Heads in Beds" if you dare, about the hotel industry. Nothing would surprise me related to the kitchen and bar but the mistreatment of workers is another issue that I fnd appalling especially with the no tipping policy. I also doubt very seriously that all these issues are isolated to one ship or even one cruiseline. So much for luxury and upscale!

[Paulchili]

I am probably one of the most positive people you will meet on a ship and who posts regularly on the boards and looks very hard to see the bright side of many things. This is not the case in this situation. Yes, to me it is a big deal. The whole idea of what was being done is absolutely sickening. And the score they received is not like a score at school.

 

As to what others on land do with filling bottles with other liquor I could care less. In the USA you will lose your liquor license if you are caught and when you are paying top dollar you expect that you are receiving the real thing. If they want to keep costs down then go with less expensive brands but don't play games.

 

It is all about honesty, and integrity and again I really could care less about what someone else does.

 

I don't go through red lights and if someone does and cause an accident there should not be an excuse that it is OK because someone else did. You don't do these things.

 

Anyway, as I have said on several posts that one way or the other that Silversea needs to address this one.

 

For those of you who don't think this is a big deal so be it. But I think that if the allegations are true in my humble opinion it is a very big deal. Again, it posed health risks and is just dishonest.

 

Keith

 

+1

Well said. You are a voice of reason and moderation on these boards and I agree with you once again.

Not sure what to do about our Wind cruise in Feb 2014 - I'll wait and watch for now.

[Seafairer]

I forwarded this thread to our travel agent, in case he isn't already aware of this developing PR situation. I'm sure many travel professionals are starting to get questions from prospective cruisers.

 

Fizzy, to your query about cancelling, based on SS's lack of response to these allegations, I think you'd find that the insurance carrier will abide by the terms of the contract, nothing more, nothing less. Unless your contract allows this as a covered reason, they would decline coverage and refer you back to the cruise line. At that point your travel agent could attempt a possible settlement. Other than that, you would be, to use a simple legal term, "stuck."

[bissel]

Jeff, I am of course in total agreement with all the expressions of horror about this situation. I had not known about the employee problems but I too had mistrusted the charity thing from the moment I heard about it.

 

This garbage thing is a big big deal though and I don't know exactly what SS can say to explain it. I am somewhat of a cynic but I know I would not trust that it wouldn't continue or happen again. How many people new to cruising will be willing to pay large sums of money for this if they know of it?

 

Perhaps SS will retain some current clients but it is hard to see any new clients willingly choosing to sail with SS. Perhaps I'm wrong and SS can recover but my money bets differently.

[Paulchili]

I also doubt very seriously that all these issues are isolated to one ship or even one cruiseline. So much for luxury and upscale!

 

You may be right but I can assure you nothing like this (either the food issue nor treatment of staff) goes on at Oceania - the cruise line I know best.

Maybe on NCL or Carnival.

[billcrooz]

You may be right but I can assure you nothing like this (either the food issue nor treatment of staff) goes on at Oceania - the cruise line I know best.

Maybe on NCL or Carnival.

 

I think what you have to remember is that ALL of the crew members from Captain on down have all worked on other cruise lines..It is naive to think that this would be an Isolated incident that could only occur on Silversea.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jeff, I am of course in total agreement with all the expressions of horror about this situation. I had not known about the employee problems but I too had mistrusted the charity thing from the moment I heard about it.

 

This garbage thing is a big big deal though and I don't know exactly what SS can say to explain it. I am somewhat of a cynic but I know I would not trust that it wouldn't continue or happen again. How many people new to cruising will be willing to pay large sums of money for this if they know of it?

 

Perhaps SS will retain some current clients but it is hard to see any new clients willingly choosing to sail with SS. Perhaps I'm wrong and SS can recover but my money bets differently.

 

 

Thanks I agree. That in a way is why the customers who play hardball hardest with SS today are in fact doing more of a service to SS, it's staff and customers than those who simply say "I put myself in your hands ...." and accept facile PR.

 

With respect to the tips. I see this really clearly. I have paid them a shed load of cash believing that a part of that shed was for tipping.

 

GRATUITIES INCLUDED

All onboard gratuities are included — none are ever expected.

 

It doesn't avoid saying included. It says included. That meant something very specific to me. I want to know for the cash that I have already paid:

 

1. What part of my fare was allocated to tipping. What was the precise amount in pounds and pence or even dollars. How was that pool seperated.

2. How exactly was the pool distributed. Who on my cruises got what. There will be records.

 

I suspect that it is a scam. I fear I have been scammed. I fear the staff have been scammed and that I was cheated and I was unwittingly complicit with SS in cheating SS staff.

 

I use this as an example as to the level of detail here for all of the other issues that I require answers on because those of us who are old and cynical enough know how this is likely to be handled.

 

With respect to garbage, the same level of precise answers are required. Not BS. Preciseness.

 

The issue here is that someone "above you" if you are the person doing this on SS (and you are in a weak postion far away from home) is coercing you to do something you know is wrong but self preservation forces you to do so. Those people are not the villains here. They are the heroes. They need us. I'd do the same. The person I want to see exposed is the executive in the SS management line who was the highest level that initiated this and who above whom genuinely had no knowledge. ie where this cancer precisely start.

 

If we do not do this now, we have failed the management by not providing impetus, with failed innocent staff who might lose out if revenue dropped and we have failed those that directly looked after us when we thought they were being treated fairly and that we were at least paying them tips.

 

On the wider front some of us have been saying for a long time that something has been going wrong and others haven't seen it. Fair enough. Something has now most definately gone wrong and we (I feel) have an obligation to our loyalty to SS to " call it out" - promise our loyatly if we are treated honourably and with candour - support the staff - and support fellow current and future customers by the degree of hard love SS seem to need.

 

And for all these issues which execs and VPs were culpable and who was fired. Which member of staff have been reinstated as product heroes for blowing the whistle.

 

The wider issue is that we must coerce SS into believing that staff that fight our corner and their own corner are heroes, not inconvenient scum to be disposed of and that now is the moment to really come clean and convince us that they "get it".

[Travelcat2]

I am sickened by what I am reading about Silversea. We are also too close to our sailing date to cancel and did not get insurance -- even if we did, it would not pay for this circumstance. Chef David Bilsland, Silversea Culinary Trainer will be on board. He seems to be one of the most honest individuals that we have met and hope that he will be able to shed some light on the sanitation part of the issue.

 

When we board the Shadow on September 12th we will insist on only bottled water in our suite (unopened). If anything on my plate does not look fresh, it will be sent back. It is a shame that the crew will take the brunt of this from customers. The only thing I want to hear is that several managers aboard the Shadow were fired after the failed sanitation report!

[Seafairer]

I'm wondering.. since the original post on the CDC sanitation score mentions the fraudulent presentation of alcoholic beverages, and it's also alleged in the Asenov suit, it's likely that Silversea won't be able to address this particular issue publicly until the Asenov case is settled (so as not to compromise their defense). In which case, we won't learn the truth about this aspect of the problem for a long time. If ever.

[Rally]

You may be right but I can assure you nothing like this (either the food issue nor treatment of staff) goes on at Oceania - the cruise line I know best.

Maybe on NCL or Carnival.

 

How many loyal SS fans would have said the exact same thing last week? Unless one is an employee on the ship it may be naive to assert that "it can't happen here."

[UKCruiseJeff]

I'm wondering.. since the original post on the CDC sanitation score mentions the fraudulent presentation of alcoholic beverages, and it's also alleged in the Asenov suit, it's likely that Silversea won't be able to address this particular issue publicly until the Asenov case is settled (so as not to compromise their defense). In which case, we won't learn the truth about this aspect of the problem for a long time. If ever.

 

The case has been ongoing for years. They can easilly address it. They know the truth. They can state what that is.

 

They can confirm it and explain hat happened and for how long and why - and why we shoud feel confident about the future. They could then settle that case. Or they can say it is untrue and accept the consequences if that turns out to be untrue.

 

There is no complicated issue.

[Seafairer]

I wish I could agree with you, Jeff, but if Silversea accepts culpability in the beverage issue, it weakens their defense. Their legal team won't allow that. From that standpoint, they have no choice but to say in public, "we're looking into it, but we can assure our clients that, today, we serve premium beverages, as labeled."

 

Your previous post was really well put. As "involved" cruisers, we CCers owe it to ourselves and others to stay on top of this. Thank you.

[CocktailShaker]

I have been reading the Silversea's forum for some time as my husband and I were considering a cruise on his retirement. My friends have cruised several times with Silversea and had convinced us that it is the best.

 

You can see I have used past tense as it is very unlikely now that we will cruise with Silversea or any other cruise line until they get their act together.

 

Sadly I feel my friends, along with everyone else that has used this cruise line have been duped.

 

20 years ago I went on a cruise and I felt very uneasy with the subservient nature of the staff, always bowing their head to let you pass in the corridor. I was told that the cruise liner concerned had to employ staff from the country it was registered. The staff worked very long hours for not a great wage, which is why envelopes were left in your cabin so that you could tip freely to whoever you wanted.

 

I would have hoped that things would have changed in the 21st century, that staff were paid a decent wage and treated with respect. Any tipping should be voluntary.

 

In a competitive world it seems that honesty goes out the window and greed takes over. It's all about the profit with no concern for the customer or the staff.