Turnaround Day in Ft Lauderdale Horrible

[TrinaLC]

Actually, HAL is partially to blame. If zeroing out is or can be required by customs, then they should arrange for sufficient seating - whether that is calling up a catering rental place for chairs, or bringing them from the ship - or delaying embarking passengers so that reimbarking pax can use the facilities.

 

We just did a B2B on Carnival in Norfolk, and we simply walked off and right back on the ship. Wonder if the practice of zeroing out is port specific?

 

We were on the first leg of the OP's cruise. So jealous when we heard that almost 700 people were staying on, but we did wonder about the mechanics!

 

We walked off the ship with no line at 8:00 a.m.

 

We also took advantage of the program that allowed our bags to be delivered straight to the airlines, with luggage tags preprinted and us all checked in - for only $18pp (plus the luggage fee imposed by the airlines).

 

How nice to put the bags out at night and not see them again until we landed in our home city!

[jtl513]

...tried to use elevators but only 2 were open and packed, so we trecked up to 7th floor.

I know they use two aft and two forward elevators to bring up luggage, but what about the six mid-ship? :confused:

[sapper1]

I know they use two aft and two forward elevators to bring up luggage, but what about the six mid-ship? :confused:

 

Little trick. Walk up one flight and then get on an empty elevator coming down. When it opens on the deck where the mobs are piling on, you are already on the elevator.

No tears. No ruined cruise.

 

Another tip. During regular port visits the security scanner is set up by a glass elevator so it is prevented from coming to that deck. Walk up one flight and push the call button for that elevator. Everyone else is one deck below fighting to get on an elevator and your glass one arrives empty most of the time.

 

JTL ---- I am not using a singular "you". I mean a general " you".

Edited November 18, 2013 by sapper1

[jtl513]

Little trick. Walk up one flight and then get on an empty elevator coming down. When it opens on the deck where the mobs are piling on, you are already on the elevator.

No tears. No ruined cruise.

 

JTL ---- I am not using a singular "you". I mean a general " you".

Understood! :) After a lifeboat drill we will usually walk down one flight or get on an elevator going down from the mobbed floor, just to be on it when it comes back up.

 

When coming on from a port stop where we are on the lowest deck served by that elevator we will walk up one and forward or aft to a place less busy.

Edited November 18, 2013 by jtl513

[Fouremco]

Not Greg, but will be happy to respond to your question (already answered in my prior post). The zeroing procedure is a requirement of the US Government (CBP) as a part of the ship clearance procedure necessary before they can start boarding and re-boarding passengers. It also serves a cruise line purpose of ensuring that there are no stowaways (whether deliberate or accidental) on the next cruise. As to the logic.....well we are talking about the government....so what more can one say :)

 

Hank

 

Yes, I saw your previous post and knew that it was a CBP requirement, but was looking for the reason underlying the requirement. I guess government logic is... an oxymoron! :)

 

I guess for the same reason that US immigration make all aircraft passengers, even those in transit who are getting back on the same plane, go through US immigration at a US airport. Passengers in transit are not entering a country. They are already in the secure, airside area of the airport. Their checked baggage has already been screened at their departure airport, in a process that has to be US-approved. Why make them reclaim their checked baggage and have it screened again?

 

That insanity does not happen when you transit other countries. Usually, all that is necessary is to have carry-on baggage re-screened.

 

I didn't realize that this was happening. I've often transited European countries but the only times that I've flown on to another country via the US I've made an overnight stop. Anyway, thanks for the info.

 

[igraf]

I just don't see any benefit in doing a back to back cruise as you described. Just a lot of unpleasant hassle mid-cruise, and perhaps one might expect more sophisticated fellow passengers in a dedicated longer single cruise (e.g. fewer kids).

 

I would never go on a back to back cruise from a single port.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

 

2nd time trying to post this, let's just say this day has been terrible. We were led like cattle in a huge room after we went through immigration and stood in lines for almost an hour. 600+ people who were continuing on the ship for the Eastern Caribbean.

When we got back onboard....tried to use elevators but only 2 were open and packed, so we trecked up to 7th floor. I went to Neptune Lounge and that is where I broke down in tears. I was so out of breath from the stairs and just so upset in general. Oh yea, while we were waiting in the cattle line........

[peaches from georgia]

I just don't see any benefit in doing a back to back cruise as you described. Just a lot of unpleasant hassle mid-cruise, and perhaps one might expect more sophisticated fellow passengers in a dedicated longer single cruise (e.g. fewer kids).........

 

igraf

That we have found to be true. A b2b of 2 7 day cruises is just that- 2 7 day cruises with all the negatives of 7 day cruises on each segment. We MUCH prefer a 10 day or longer single cruise.

[Fouremco]

I just don't see any benefit in doing a back to back cruise as you described. Just a lot of unpleasant hassle mid-cruise, and perhaps one might expect more sophisticated fellow passengers in a dedicated longer single cruise (e.g. fewer kids).

 

I would never go on a back to back cruise from a single port.

 

igraf

 

That we have found to be true. A b2b of 2 7 day cruises is just that- 2 7 day cruises with all the negatives of 7 day cruises on each segment. We MUCH prefer a 10 day or longer single cruise.

B2B 7 day cruises may be a bit much, and there are lots of other options to avoid it. On the other hand, we loved the 21 day South Caribbean Seafarer/Wayfarer Collector Cruise this past February-March. While we would have prefered to have included an other island or two and not return to Port Everglades, we just made it an enjoyable port day and avoided the type unpleasantness of the type cited by the OP and others.

[GregnChris]

I believe the reason that us Immigration requires the ship to "zero out" is due to the US practice of requiring all passengers to clear immigration at the first place they touch US soil. As previously mentioned, if you fly into the US, you must clear Immigration at your first US landing.

 

Probably this is due to the fact the US is a very big country, and many airports are domestic only and don't have Immigration offices. So you have to clear Immigration at your initial landing airport, which has International facilities. You are then cleared to fly onto any US airport.

 

I expect it is a similar idea for the ships. They want to get all passengers cleared at the initial port, so they don't have to do checks of passports/etc at the other US ports. When cruising in the Baltic, they keep your passport on the ship, and the immigration officers clear the passengers without our having to present ourselves. It just depends on the rules for the Countries you visit.

 

When we visited St. Petersburg, we had to go through Russian Passport controls to both exit and reenter the ship.

 

Greg

[sail7seas]

I believe the reason that us Immigration requires the ship to "zero out" is due to the US practice of requiring all passengers to clear immigration at the first place they touch US soil. As previously mentioned, if you fly into the US, you must clear Immigration at your first US landing.

 

Probably this is due to the fact the US is a very big country, and many airports are domestic only and don't have Immigration offices. So you have to clear Immigration at your initial landing airport, which has International facilities. You are then cleared to fly onto any US airport.

 

I expect it is a similar idea for the ships. They want to get all passengers cleared at the initial port, so they don't have to do checks of passports/etc at the other US ports. When cruising in the Baltic, they keep your passport on the ship, and the immigration officers clear the passengers without our having to present ourselves. It just depends on the rules for the Countries you visit.

 

When we visited St. Petersburg, we had to go through Russian Passport controls to both exit and reenter the ship.

 

Greg

 

 

At least one of the ships which had Immigration check including b-to-b'ers had been the day before in Key West, Florida..... that was the first U.S. port after being out of the country.

 

It was Nieuw Amsterdam and they had a full Immigration check there.

Edited November 18, 2013 by sail7seas

[Fouremco]

I believe the reason that us Immigration requires the ship to "zero out" is due to the US practice of requiring all passengers to clear immigration at the first place they touch US soil. As previously mentioned, if you fly into the US, you must clear Immigration at your first US landing.

 

Probably this is due to the fact the US is a very big country, and many airports are domestic only and don't have Immigration offices. So you have to clear Immigration at your initial landing airport, which has International facilities. You are then cleared to fly onto any US airport.

 

I expect it is a similar idea for the ships. They want to get all passengers cleared at the initial port, so they don't have to do checks of passports/etc at the other US ports. When cruising in the Baltic, they keep your passport on the ship, and the immigration officers clear the passengers without our having to present ourselves. It just depends on the rules for the Countries you visit.

 

When we visited St. Petersburg, we had to go through Russian Passport controls to both exit and reenter the ship.

 

Greg

Thanks Greg. One could argue that B2B passengers wouldn't touch US soil if they were left undisturbed aboard ship mid-cruise instead of being ordered off, and the same could be said about in-transit passengers on multinational flights, but I imagine it would just be wasted breath. :rolleyes:

 

[OCruisers]

Myheart53 .... Your turnaround day sounded awful! Wishing you a wonderful 2nd week!

 

KK ... Welcome Home! :)

 

LuLu

~~~~

[Dog Drool]

I did the NA Back to back first of Nov over 700 doing the b-b We stood for over 60mins waiting for 6 inconsiderate people.

I wonder of HAL could "pre-stage" us in the theatre or someplace and make sure everyone is there and found before marching us off?

[TrinaLC]

At least one of the ships which had Immigration check including b-to-b'ers had been the day before in Key West, Florida..... that was the first U.S. port after being out of the country.

 

It was Nieuw Amsterdam and they had a full Immigration check there.

 

No, that was the Eurodam. (I was on it.)

[GregnChris]

At least one of the ships which had Immigration check including b-to-b'ers had been the day before in Key West, Florida..... that was the first U.S. port after being out of the country.

 

It was Nieuw Amsterdam and they had a full Immigration check there.

 

Thanks sail7seas.

 

So as I understand it, they required passengers to go through Immigration/Passport check to go ashore in Key West, correct? Was it only the passengers that went ashore, or did they put all passengers through Immigration? (Wouldn't it be nice if they put Immigration officers aboard the ship in Key West and processed the formalities for all passengers during the trip from Key West to Miami? Some countries do it that way, you know!)

 

If it was only the ones going ashore, that is consistent with my idea on why they "zero" the ship at US B2B stops. At the B2B point, everyone has cleared Immigration, so the ship can be considered "sterile". As long as it only docks at US ports, passengers have effectively never left the US, so they can get on and off without going through Immigration.

 

Once it touches a foreign port, the ship is no longer sterile. It's passengers have effectively left the US and must pass through Immigration to reenter the US.

 

Now, I don't know this for a fact. I am formulating this hypothesis based on the evidence and what seems to make sense. (Of course when has making sense ever been a constraint on government? :( )

 

Greg

[sail7seas]

No, that was the Eurodam. (I was on it.)

 

 

Then it was two ships as this is KK's post. She was on Nieuw Amsterdam.

 

 

Krazy Kruizers

 

We just got off the Nieuw Amsterdam this morning from spending 2 weeks on her.

 

We also had a very bad experience last Sunday for our turn-around day. We were called at 10 AM to go through immigration (even though we had just gone through a bad immigration the day before in Key West). We completed immigration by 10:10 AM. There were only 402 of us but we had to stand down in the luggage area until the last 2 people were escorted off the ship at 10:45 by an officer. There were only 9 chairs for people to sit -- thankfully I had a walker and could sit on the seat. But many people were complaining. We were fortunate to get back on the ship by 10:55 since I have to use an elevator -- but even that line was long with wheelchair people.

 

I feel sorry for anyone taking Collector Cruises. We are seriously thinking about cancelling 2 that we have already booked.

 

The officials won't let us go upstairs to where the chairs are as HAL is allowing people into the terminal staring around 9:30 to check in and those people get the chairs. We have to wait downstairs in awful conditions.

 

This was brought up at the Question and Answer session by 6 of the 8 of us who attended. The CD, Guest Relations Manager and Head of Shore Excursions know about these problems and are discussing them with Seattle and hopefully something can/will be done in the near future (I would not hold my breath).

 

Last week we were fortunate to get an elevator back up to the 7th deck right away.

 

Self disembarkation began at about 7:30 this morning and there were 5 Officers on duty at that time. We left the ship at 8:30 (that is when my wheelchair assistance arrived) and there were only 2 Officers on duty. The rest were gone and the lines were backing up.

Edited November 19, 2013 by sail7seas

[sail7seas]

Thanks sail7seas.

 

So as I understand it, they required passengers to go through Immigration/Passport check to go ashore in Key West, correct? Was it only the passengers that went ashore, or did they put all passengers through Immigration? (Wouldn't it be nice if they put Immigration officers aboard the ship in Key West and processed the formalities for all passengers during the trip from Key West to Miami? Some countries do it that way, you know!)

 

If it was only the ones going ashore, that is consistent with my idea on why they "zero" the ship at US B2B stops. At the B2B point, everyone has cleared Immigration, so the ship can be considered "sterile". As long as it only docks at US ports, passengers have effectively never left the US, so they can get on and off without going through Immigration.

 

Once it touches a foreign port, the ship is no longer sterile. It's passengers have effectively left the US and must pass through Immigration to reenter the US.

 

Now, I don't know this for a fact. I am formulating this hypothesis based on the evidence and what seems to make sense. (Of course when has making sense ever been a constraint on government? :( )

 

Greg

 

 

 

I don't know if only guests going ashore had to clear Immigration in key West but I very much doubt it. Someone who was there can tell us but in my experience it has been all guests whether going ashore or not must present themselves when an Immigration Inspection takes place.

 

[Crew News]

Thanks sail7seas.

 

So as I understand it, they required passengers to go through Immigration/Passport check to go ashore in Key West, correct? Was it only the passengers that went ashore, or did they put all passengers through Immigration? (Wouldn't it be nice if they put Immigration officers aboard the ship in Key West and processed the formalities for all passengers during the trip from Key West to Miami? Some countries do it that way, you know!)

 

If it was only the ones going ashore, that is consistent with my idea on why they "zero" the ship at US B2B stops. At the B2B point, everyone has cleared Immigration, so the ship can be considered "sterile". As long as it only docks at US ports, passengers have effectively never left the US, so they can get on and off without going through Immigration.

 

Once it touches a foreign port, the ship is no longer sterile. It's passengers have effectively left the US and must pass through Immigration to reenter the US.

 

Now, I don't know this for a fact. I am formulating this hypothesis based on the evidence and what seems to make sense. (Of course when has making sense ever been a constraint on government? :( )

 

Greg

 

ALL passengers go through Immigration in Key West. Nobody can leave the ship until ALL passengers appear at the designated location on board and receive a strangely-shaped hole punched in their room card.

 

On our cruise stop at Key West, 13 passengers failed to appear and the ship's captain announced that a $1000 fine would be imposed by US Immigration. Since the missing passengers were Russian-speaking, the announcement of the fines were repeated in Russian. A few minutes before the fine-imposition deadline, all appeared. This delayed ALL of the passengers from leaving the ship for nearly one hour.

 

The ship's crew usually accounts for all B2B passengers as they are gathered at the on board pre-designated holding area (Vista Lounge, Ocean Bar, etc.). The average wait once inside the terminal was around 30 minutes. On my last Alaska May 2013 cruise we were released to board 15 minutes after disembarking.

 

One B2B we were held in the terminal waiting area while the ship searched for a couple in a Neptune Suite who had packed their carry-on luggage and were wandering around the ship. Yes, a ship-wide search found them and escorted them off the ship around 10:40 AM. We re-boarded the ship ten minutes later.

 

My suggestion to HAL for such a large number of B2B would be to gather them in the Vista Lounge, clear everyone else from the ship, than parade to the terminal, verify the "zero" count, and then re-board.

 

As far as elevators: The two exterior elevators to the immediate right of the boarding entrance are never occupied as the passengers stream straight ahead to the clearly recognized bank of elevators. Don't spread this secret too widely.

[Max2003]

Disembarked the Noordam on Friday (15th) in FLL. I had the same long line at CBP and couldn't help notice the several signs noting that the budget cuts from the sequester etc. might cause delays. Could it be that they are making a political statement?? Sort of a "make it hurt" approach. They certainly got my attention and not in a positive way. I didn't see much urgency!

 

That delay was followed by a disorganized transportation situation to the airport. Long cab lines and vans that waited for a half hour to get at least 6 passengers.

 

I have never experienced this kind of chaos in Tampa with the Ryndam.

[TrinaLC]

I don't know if only guests going ashore had to clear Immigration in key West but I very much doubt it. Someone who was there can tell us but in my experience it has been all guests whether going ashore or not must present themselves when an Immigration Inspection takes place.

 

 

The Key West immigration check is on-board. Eurodam last week all had to present themselves in one of the lounges. Line up by deck, scan cruise card, flash passport at CBP agent, then get cruise card "punched" to prove that you've gone through the process.

 

There were about 15-18 people who failed to show, and their names were called repeatedly. Most of those names seemed russian; every single one seemed "foreign" - so we presumed there was a language barrier. Maybe HAL should distribute a flier with instructions in numerous languages the night before ...

[SeaBands]

was when one inconsiderate couple refused to leave the ship until security went to their cabin and escorted them off. 300+ had to cool our heels in the lounge waiting for the ship to be cleared. There should be a way to make sure that all cabins and lounges are cleared by 10 am.

[sail7seas]

was when one inconsiderate couple refused to leave the ship until security went to their cabin and escorted them off. 300+ had to cool our heels in the lounge waiting for the ship to be cleared. There should be a way to make sure that all cabins and lounges are cleared by 10 am.

 

 

The 'way' is to announce anyone who does not appear within set number of minutes will not be sailing their next cruise segment. They will be told to leave the ship permanently.

 

 

Reason: Failure to follow Staff Captain or Captain's orders.

 

Edited November 19, 2013 by sail7seas

[Fouremco]

On our cruise stop at Key West, 13 passengers failed to appear and the ship's captain announced that a $1000 fine would be imposed by US Immigration. Since the missing passengers were Russian-speaking, the announcement of the fines were repeated in Russian. A few minutes before the fine-imposition deadline, all appeared. This delayed ALL of the passengers from leaving the ship for nearly one hour.

 

The 'way' is to announce anyone who does not appear within set number of minutes will not be sailing their next cruise segment. They will be told to leave the ship permanently.

While I believe that many of us would cheer such passengers being given the heave-ho and not being allowed to reboard, I suspect that Celebrity would not want to take such firm measures. Even in Crew News' post, the Captain announced a threatened US Immigration fine, essentially keeping Celebrity out of the fray. The potential for adverse publicity ("Elderly Couple Kicked Off Cruise For Sleeping In" or similar media spin, no matter how inaccurate) or possible litigation is something Celebrity would strive hard to avoid.

 

[Krazy Kruizers]

I don't know if only guests going ashore had to clear Immigration in key West but I very much doubt it. Someone who was there can tell us but in my experience it has been all guests whether going ashore or not must present themselves when an Immigration Inspection takes place.

 

 

 

In Key West everyone had to go through immigration. On the Nieuw Amsterdam we were called by decks -- starting on the top deck. We went through immigration in the Queen's Lounge. We did get a funny looking punch in our ID card.

Once you went through immigration you could leave the ship.

Biggest problem was people who were scheduled for tours -- they were allowed to go through immigration right away so that they could meet with their group on shore. That caused major back up's on shore for people going on tours and those just wanting to get a trolley or the tram into town.

[rogerthornhill]

While I believe that many of us would cheer such passengers being given the heave-ho and not being allowed to reboard, I suspect that Celebrity would not want to take such firm measures. Even in Crew News' post, the Captain announced a threatened US Immigration fine, essentially keeping Celebrity out of the fray. The potential for adverse publicity ("Elderly Couple Kicked Off Cruise For Sleeping In" or similar media spin, no matter how inaccurate) or possible litigation is something Celebrity would strive hard to avoid.

D

Celebrity? When did Celebrity enter into this discussion? I'm sure they wouldn't mind if HAL received adverse publicty.