Turnaround Day in Ft Lauderdale Horrible

[Tampa Girl]

After reading all the above posts, after having not experienced the same at the Tampa port, last Sunday, which was the first U.S. port, and after having consulted with DH, who is a former INS agent, my conclusion is: NO ONE KNOWS! And that include Homeland Security. I asked DH if he policies were different from port to port, and his response was, he "didn't think so". But apparently they are. We were not required to go through Immigration in debarking in Tampa after the TA from Barcelona - only the non-U.S. passengers were - and they were only required to do so on board ship. So go figure. We have never had to leave the ship to clear Immigration. In past years, Immigration cleared on board ship in, for instance, St. Thomas. I'm wondering if there has been something lost in translation on this thread. DH used to board ships enroute in order to clear passengers and staff for immigration.

[Krazy Kruizers]

In 2010 we did a Collectors Cruise on the Ryndam -- round trip from Tampa. And we did have to get off the ship to go through immigration and sit in the terminal until the ship got down to "zero" count.

There was a time after 9/11 that after we left Ft Lauderdale, visited a foreign port and then stopped at St Thomas, we had to go through immigration in St Thomas. Now we no longer have to do that.

[Krazy Kruizers]

In 2010 we did a Collectors Cruise on the Ryndam -- round trip from Tampa. And we did have to get off the ship to go through immigration and sit in the terminal until the ship got down to "zero" count.

 

There was a time after 9/11 that after we left Ft Lauderdale, visited a foreign port and then stopped at St Thomas, we had to go through immigration in St Thomas. Now we no longer have to do that.

[sail7seas]

While I believe that many of us would cheer such passengers being given the heave-ho and not being allowed to reboard, I suspect that Celebrity would not want to take such firm measures. Even in Crew News' post, the Captain announced a threatened US Immigration fine, essentially keeping Celebrity out of the fray. The potential for adverse publicity ("Elderly Couple Kicked Off Cruise For Sleeping In" or similar media spin, no matter how inaccurate) or possible litigation is something Celebrity would strive hard to avoid.

 

 

 

This is the HAL forum. :D

 

 

In years since 9-11, we have had to zero down each time we did a turnaround day in FLL and that has been certainly a dozen or more times. It usually went fast and easy and was no big deal but seems to be more difficult these days.

 

In any case, we have no choice but to do as instructed, do it promptly and not hold up other people or not do collector/b-to-b cruises with a turnaround day in a U.S. port.

 

[Hlitner]

After reading all the above posts, after having not experienced the same at the Tampa port, last Sunday, which was the first U.S. port, and after having consulted with DH, who is a former INS agent, my conclusion is: NO ONE KNOWS! And that include Homeland Security. I asked DH if he policies were different from port to port, and his response was, he "didn't think so". But apparently they are. We were not required to go through Immigration in debarking in Tampa after the TA from Barcelona - only the non-U.S. passengers were - and they were only required to do so on board ship. So go figure. We have never had to leave the ship to clear Immigration. In past years, Immigration cleared on board ship in, for instance, St. Thomas. I'm wondering if there has been something lost in translation on this thread. DH used to board ships enroute in order to clear passengers and staff for immigration.

 

I think your conclusion that "NO ONE KNOWS" is all too typical of many government programs (and I worked in government Health Care for over 30 years). We have done a lot of cruising over the past forty years and have seen just about every scenario mentioned on this thread. Perhaps our most memorable was a Princess cruise that stopped in San Juan. Immigration held the entire ship hostage for nearly 2 hours because their computers were down (it was only a 6 hour port call). They finally cleared the ship and its passengers. That night we cruised from San Juan over to St Thomas. Upon docking at St Thomas we went through the entire fiasco all over again! We actually asked an immigration man why they did this and it quick response was "you cruised through international waters."

 

Things have improved a little since that cruise, but the "zero out" procedure is still a real pain that needs to be addressed.

 

Hank

[IRL_Joanie]

While I believe that many of us would cheer such passengers being given the heave-ho and not being allowed to reboard, I suspect that Celebrity would not want to take such firm measures. Even in Crew News' post, the Captain announced a threatened US Immigration fine, essentially keeping Celebrity out of the fray. The potential for adverse publicity ("Elderly Couple Kicked Off Cruise For Sleeping In" or similar media spin, no matter how inaccurate) or possible litigation is something Celebrity would strive hard to avoid.

 

 

Crew News was discussing a HAL cruise not Celebrity and I think your posts states Celebrity 3 times.

 

And, just for clarification, I do not remember the exact time frame but about a year ago an older woman and her husband were put off a HAL Ship, I think it was in a Canadaian Port (East coast) because the woman was a ...how can I say this without hurting feelings...she was a problem and........ It did make the full media coverage, AFTER she and her husband were put off and she raised cane. BUT as soon as we, the normal cruisers read all we could and I think had people on that cruise tell us what they'd witnessed, we knew she'd been put off legitimately.

 

Joanie

Edited November 19, 2013 by IRL_Joanie

[sapper1]

Crew News was discussing a HAL cruise not Celebrity and I think this correction to your posts states Celebrity 3 times.

 

And, just for clarification, I do not remember the exact time frame but about a year ago an older woman and her husband were put off a HAL Ship, I think it was in a Canadaian Port (East coast) because the woman was a ...how can I say this without hurting feelings...she was a problem and........ It did make the full media coverage, AFTER she and her husband were put off and she raised cane. BUT as soon as we, the normal cruisers read all we could and I think had people on that cruise tell us what they'd witnessed, we knew she's been put off legitimately.

 

Joanie

I believe you will find it was the Queen Mary 2

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4121

[IRL_Joanie]

I believe you will find it was the Queen Mary 2

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4121

 

Thank you for that:) I said I could not remember correctly, but the thing is that they were put off and Main Stream Media tried to make the Cruise Line the bad guy and it backfired:)

 

I ask that all our Canadian CC Members please forgive my misspelling in my original post of the word Canadian. It was a typo I did not catch in time and just noticed it in Sapper's reply to me.

 

Joanie

[Tampa Girl]

I think your conclusion that "NO ONE KNOWS" is all too typical of many government programs (and I worked in government Health Care for over 30 years). We have done a lot of cruising over the past forty years and have seen just about every scenario mentioned on this thread. Perhaps our most memorable was a Princess cruise that stopped in San Juan. Immigration held the entire ship hostage for nearly 2 hours because their computers were down (it was only a 6 hour port call). They finally cleared the ship and its passengers. That night we cruised from San Juan over to St Thomas. Upon docking at St Thomas we went through the entire fiasco all over again! We actually asked an immigration man why they did this and it quick response was "you cruised through international waters."

 

Things have improved a little since that cruise, but the "zero out" procedure is still a real pain that needs to be addressed.

 

When I s

 

Hank

 

My point was that none of us really knows how the "zero out" procedure is really applied. And that also includes Homeland Security. It seems that it is being applied differently in different ports.

[jtl513]

While I believe that many of us would cheer such passengers being given the heave-ho and not being allowed to reboard, I suspect that Celebrity would not want to take such firm measures. Even in Crew News' post, the Captain announced a threatened US Immigration fine, essentially keeping Celebrity out of the fray. The potential for adverse publicity ("Elderly Couple Kicked Off Cruise For Sleeping In" or similar media spin, no matter how inaccurate) or possible litigation is something Celebrity would strive hard to avoid.

 

Did you mean Carnival Corp?

[Fouremco]

Celebrity? When did Celebrity enter into this discussion? I'm sure they wouldn't mind if HAL received adverse publicty.

 

This is the HAL forum. :D

 

 

In years since 9-11, we have had to zero down each time we did a turnaround day in FLL and that has been certainly a dozen or more times. It usually went fast and easy and was no big deal but seems to be more difficult these days.

 

In any case, we have no choice but to do as instructed, do it promptly and not hold up other people or not do collector/b-to-b cruises with a turnaround day in a U.S. port.

 

Two very similar threads on different forums and I've been jumping between then. My apologies to all for the confusion. :o

[Krazy Kruizers]

I think your conclusion that "NO ONE KNOWS" is all too typical of many government programs (and I worked in government Health Care for over 30 years). We have done a lot of cruising over the past forty years and have seen just about every scenario mentioned on this thread. Perhaps our most memorable was a Princess cruise that stopped in San Juan. Immigration held the entire ship hostage for nearly 2 hours because their computers were down (it was only a 6 hour port call). They finally cleared the ship and its passengers. That night we cruised from San Juan over to St Thomas. Upon docking at St Thomas we went through the entire fiasco all over again! We actually asked an immigration man why they did this and it quick response was "you cruised through international waters."

 

Things have improved a little since that cruise, but the "zero out" procedure is still a real pain that needs to be addressed.

 

Hank

 

 

Absolutely!!

[startwin]

Two very similar threads on different forums and I've been jumping between then. My apologies to all for the confusion. :o

 

That's OK, sometimes there are several threads on the same topic on one forum and it's easy to get confused then as well.;) In fact, there's another one here stating turnaround day disembarkation was fine, and someone else insisting any problems on turnaround days are all subjective - just like the food is onboard.:rolleyes:

[ScriptOhio]

Not Greg, but will be happy to respond to your question (already answered in my prior post). The zeroing procedure is a requirement of the US Government (CBP) as a part of the ship clearance procedure necessary before they can start boarding and re-boarding passengers. It also serves a cruise line purpose of ensuring that there are no stowaways (whether deliberate or accidental) on the next cruise. As to the logic.....well we are talking about the government....so what more can one say :)

 

Hank

 

And That my friend says it all:(

 

Joanie

 

As a retired Federal employee I will offer the following comment. Delayed re-boarding is not necessarily cause by any inefficiency of the customs/immigration officers (yeah, I know you didn't say it was). They are just following the laws/procedures enacted by our elected representatives; one of which is to account for everyone on the ship (which I think is a good idea). The delays that I have seen involved passengers failing to disembark in a timely manner and/or non US citizens (passengers and ship employees) failing to report to a specific lounge to clear immigration, etc. How many times have you been on a cruise ship ready to disembark and hear the same names called out on the PA system (over and over) for certain individuals to report to a lounge for immigration which held up everyone's disembarkation, etc.?

[sail7seas]

Two very similar threads on different forums and I've been jumping between then. My apologies to all for the confusion. :o

 

 

No problem..... :)

 

At least it isn't only happening to HAL ships.

 

[walcherw]

It does sound strange, but it also raises the question in my mind as to why Customs and Immigration want all passengers off the ship if, even if they aren't disembarking? I'm unclear what their objectives(s) are on turnaround day that wouldn't be met when the passengers finally disembarked at the end of their B2B.

 

We do a lot of B2Bs:) and it seams like they are all different. Some times we never have to get off the ship. They deliver the next weeks cards to the room the night before. Sometimes we have to go to the front desk to get new cards. Sometimes we wait, walk off the ship, say hello to the immigration people and walk right back on the ship. we have NEVER had an experence like the one I am reading about now. I know rules change but HAL NEEDS:D:eek: to take care of the B2B people first.

[Krazy Kruizers]

In Key West everyone had to go through immigration. On the Nieuw Amsterdam we were called by decks -- starting on the top deck. We went through immigration in the Queen's Lounge. We did get a funny looking punch in our ID card.

 

Once you went through immigration you could leave the ship.

 

Biggest problem was people who were scheduled for tours -- they were allowed to go through immigration right away so that they could meet with their group on shore. That caused major back up's on shore for people going on tours and those just wanting to get a trolley or the tram into town.

 

Was reading over my notes a while ago.

Correction.

We went through immigration in Key West at the Northern Lights.

[IRL_Joanie]

As a retired Federal employee I will offer the following comment. Delayed re-boarding is not necessarily cause by any inefficiency of the customs/immigration officers (yeah, I know you didn't say it was). They are just following the laws/procedures enacted by our elected representatives; one of which is to account for everyone on the ship (which I think is a good idea). The delays that I have seen involved passengers failing to disembark in a timely manner and/or non US citizens (passengers and ship employees) failing to report to a specific lounge to clear immigration, etc. How many times have you been on a cruise ship ready to disembark and hear the same names called out on the PA system (over and over) for certain individuals to report to a lounge for immigration which held up everyone's disembarkation, etc.?

 

No argument here!! So many times I've heard 1 or more names being called over and over and over again...Not just for Customs/Immigration but also for Ports of Calls when those named persons were delaying the departure of the ship due to ignorance or just out and out disregard for All Aboard time(s) etc....And for the Life Boat Drills before departing from Port Everglades.....Seems some people do not pay attention or even think they are so special they do not have to go through the same procedures as their fellow passengers or crew members.

 

Joanie

Edited November 20, 2013 by IRL_Joanie

[Tampa Girl]

We do a lot of B2Bs:) and it seams like they are all different. Some times we never have to get off the ship. They deliver the next weeks cards to the room the night before. Sometimes we have to go to the front desk to get new cards. Sometimes we wait, walk off the ship, say hello to the immigration people and walk right back on the ship. we have NEVER had an experence like the one I am reading about now. I know rules change but HAL NEEDS:D:eek: to take care of the B2B people first.

 

 

Unfortunately, as has been previously noted on several posts, it is not HAL's decision to make. Blame Homeland Security.

[catl331]

In fact, there's another one here stating turnaround day disembarkation was fine, ...

I think that was started as a counter-point to this one. Edited November 20, 2013 by catl331

[walcherw]

Unfortunately, as has been previously noted on several posts, it is not HAL's decision to make. Blame Homeland Security.

I disagree. The Feds say we all have to be off. They DO NOT tell HAL how to do it.

Everybody could meet in a large lounge and stay there untill we were ALL there (we do not have to wait in the port standing up) WHEN we are all there we could be escorted off the ship in a group, go by the Feds and taken back on the ship. Anyone who wanted to stay off untill later could reboard in the normal manor.

[startwin]

Yep, there's always one or two onboard who think they don't have to go through the same procedures as other passengers.... like lifeboat drills. Some think they can wait in their room and have a crew member come get them.:rolleyes:

[ksqueak]

2nd time trying to post this, let's just say this day has been terrible. We were led like cattle in a huge room after we went through immigration and stood in lines for almost an hour. 600+ people who were continuing on the ship for the Eastern Caribbean.

When we got back onboard....tried to use elevators but only 2 were open and packed, so we trecked up to 7th floor. I went to Neptune Lounge and that is where I broke down in tears. I was so out of breath from the stairs and just so upset in general. Oh yea, while we were waiting in the cattle line....I called Holland America and voiced our opinions of this and were told the ship was still not cleared, which I knew already. Back in the Neptune Lounge, they were very concerned and were so nice in calming me down.

We have decided this will be our last 2 week cruise where there is a turnaround day. It was totally not like we had read it would be. A lot of people were also upset. It turned out that 2 people chose to not go by the instructions and I suppose Holland had a hard time of locating their room to get them off the ship. I heard one gentleman say that the couple should be fined! I think I agree.

Anyway, with a few issues on the first week, overall, it has been wonderful. I pray the second week will be just as wonderful. We will be waving on the sail away today.

 

 

Don't let this scare you from back to backs. try one outside the US. I did one a year ago in Sydney and there was no trouble whatsoever. I've never heard of issues outside the US. Recently met up with a couple who did it in Amsterdam and they no troubles either.

[walcherw]

Don't let this scare you from back to backs. try one outside the US. I did one a year ago in Sydney and there was no trouble whatsoever. I've never heard of issues outside the US. Recently met up with a couple who did it in Amsterdam and they no troubles either.

All the cruise lines have good people working for them (or should). IF one line fails to figure out something as simple as how to get the B2Bers off and back on in a timely and efficient manor I do not need to take B2bs on that line. PERIOD

[IRL_Joanie]

Yep, there's always one or two onboard who think they don't have to go through the same procedures as other passengers.... like lifeboat drills. Some think they can wait in their room and have a crew member come get them.:rolleyes:

 

Yep and this someone did think she could because of what she had read here on Cruise Critic:)

 

As I discovered, those who posted that information just weeks before I cruised were SO WRONG......

 

One of the most important things I learned from that experience was, "DO NOT BELIEVE Everything you read on Cruise Critic from fellow members (and the Neptune Lounge Concierge). Their experiences can be very different from yours!!"

 

Have a great day:)

 

Joanie

Edited November 20, 2013 by IRL_Joanie