Oystercards and TfL Zones

[rsquare]

Here it comes, yet another Oyster card question - is there no end to them?

 

I have two bits of confusion about Oyster cards, both of them stemming from the promise that "...you'll never pay more than the cost of an equivalent Day Travelcard."

 

But those costs are based on zones, whereas the Oyster card seems agnostic about zones. Or is the situation that if I stay within zones 1-2, my Oyster card cap is the Zone 1-2 Travelcard cost, but as soon as I venture into Zone 3, my daily cap automatically rises to the Zone 1-4 Travel card cost?

 

Also, there are two flavors of Travelcard. If I only travel after 9:30am, is my Oyster card price cap the cost of an off-peak Travelcard, or the cost of the standard, 24-hour Travelcard?

Edited November 30, 2013 by rsquare
Trying to edit thread title, but it can't be done

[SteveH2508]

I think you have got it right - the big thing to remember is that after 9.30 am the off-peak cap is roughly half the cost of the 'peak-hour' cap.

[Rowsby]

I am so glad you are asking these questions.....it is confusing....

Right now we plan on buying a 7-day, travel at any time, zone 1-2 Travelcard with photo ID....and also an Oyster card when going outside of zone 1-2.......hopefully this is a good plan......???

[Post Captain]

The rules, regulations, and general intricacies of the Oystercard and Travelcard are about as arcane as the hierarchies and practices of the Freemasons or the Order of the Golden Dawn. Even those of us who are frequent visitors to London and can easily find our way blindfolded from Holland Park to Mornington Crescent, from Uxbridge to Upminster, from Shepherd's Bush to the Angel, are often flummoxed by the system.

 

An American tourist has a better chance of understanding cricket than of comprehending the ins and outs of the London Oystercard. Indeed, a master's degree in engineering from MIT and a double Ph.D in international affairs and astrophysics from Stanford University (along with a chair at the Hoover Institution plus a fellowship at the Institute for Advanced Studies at Princeton) will be of little avail in penetrating the mysteries of the system and weighing the various options against one another.

 

That said, here's a comprehensive and reasonably helpful discussion on this very topic:

http://londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard_oyster.htm

 

Study that page carefully, then return here to sit your three-hour written exam on the subject at the end of Michelmas term.;)

[Post Captain]

I am so glad you are asking these questions.....it is confusing....

 

Right now we plan on buying a 7-day, travel at any time, zone 1-2 Travelcard with photo ID....and also an Oyster card when going outside of zone 1-2.......hopefully this is a good plan......???

Assuming that most of your travel during those seven days will be within zones 1-2, and that you might travel outside those zones just once or twice during your stay in London... Personally, I would just purchase the seven-day zone 1-2 Travelcard, as you already are planning to do. Then, on a day when you will be travelling outside zones 1-2, just buy a one-day Travelcard (one per person) covering the appropriate number of zones, and use that--or just pay the full fare for those few individual trips... whichever is cheaper.

 

However--stop the presses!:eek:--my understanding is that the 7-day Travelcard no longer exists as a simple Travelcard. Instead, you need an Oystercard, onto which the money for a 7-day Travelcard is then loaded. It's still called a Travelcard, but it isn't a Travelcard.

 

See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14416.aspx

 

I'm reminded of the old BBC radio programme 'I'm Sorry, I Haven't a Clue.'

 

Which is why, in London, most of the time when time is not of the essence, I walk.:)

 

Mornington Crescent!

[rsquare]

The rules, regulations, and general intricacies of the Oystercard and Travelcard are about as arcane as the hierarchies and practices of the Freemasons or the Order of the Golden Dawn. Even those of us who are frequent visitors to London and can easily find our way blindfolded from Holland Park to Mornington Crescent, from Uxbridge to Upminster, from Shepherd's Bush to the Angel, are often flummoxed by the system.

 

An American tourist has a better chance of understanding cricket than of comprehending the ins and outs of the London Oystercard. Indeed, a master's degree in engineering from MIT and a double Ph.D in international affairs and astrophysics from Stanford University (along with a chair at the Hoover Institution plus a fellowship at the Institute for Advanced Studies at Princeton) will be of little avail in penetrating the mysteries of the system and weighing the various options against one another.

 

That said, here's a comprehensive and reasonably helpful discussion on this very topic:

http://londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard_oyster.htm

 

Study that page carefully, then return here to sit your three-hour written exam on the subject at the end of Michelmas term.;)

 

Thank you for the link. Convoluted regulations such as those outlined on the page are normally instituted to incent or discourage certain behavior. There is a potential Ph.D. dissertation in trying to figure out the motivational logic behind the Oyster vs Travelcard options.

[Post Captain]

Thank you for the link. Convoluted regulations such as those outlined on the page are normally instituted to incent or discourage certain behavior. There is a potential Ph.D. dissertation in trying to figure out the motivational logic behind the Oyster vs Travelcard options.

 

I'm tempted to say that there's no logic to it... just a perverse motivation to keep 'outsiders' flummoxed.;)

 

In point of fact, as far as I can figure, the motive is to give regular riders a decent discount off the full fare--a fare that, if charged for buses and the subway in New York City, would have citizens rioting in the streets. (Well, where else would they riot?) Those who ride the buses and Underground trains in London on daily basis have a strong financial motive to learn precisely how the Oyster cards and Travelcards cost out, regardless of the complexity. Those who just happen to be passing through London don't have as strong a motive to put extreme mental energy into learning, in minute detail, how the system works.

 

When last I lived in London, in the previous decade, you could save money off the regular bus fare by purchasing a book of ten paper tickets for 9 pounds--i.e., 90 pence (roughly $1.50) per ride, not limited (if I recall correctly) by fare zones and calendar constraints. The Oyster card was just being introduced, but those of us who were technically or mathematically challenged, or who just liked to walk, could still hop onto a bus occasionally and not pay the already exorbitant full fare and, at the same time, not expend brain power we didn't possess trying to figure out how much our travels were costing us.

 

The London Underground, unlike the New York City subway system with its one-price-per-ride-regardless-of-distance fares, has always operated on a graduated fare system based on the distance travelled. In that regard, as in some others, the New York Metropolitan Transit Authority's Metrocard is much easier to understand, even with a different level of discounts depending on the price of the card. And whereas each traveller needs his or her own Oyster card to ride the London Underground, up to four travellers can share a single Metrocard on New York City subways or buses (with the relevant number of fares being deducted from the total amount of money on the card, of course).

[Rowsby]

Egads......and they will probably change it 12 times before we leave....

Thanks for the links tho....I clicked on the single fare site and was able to get several cost options including Oyster...very handy and I'll save this link......

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/farefinder/current/default.aspx

[SteveH2508]

The easiest way is to get a pre-pay Oystercard and load it up with money. You use what you use and then get a refund of any unused at the end of your stay. You could keep the card if you are intending to return to London as the credit never expires.

 

The Oyster card automatically caps the deductions at the relevant daily travelcard amount.

 

Remember - on the tube always touch in on the yellow reader and touch out. If you do not touch in and out you get done for the highest fare (ouch!)

 

The buses are a one touch system (flat fare per ride).

 

There are a couple of wrinkles when traveling in the outer areas to show that you have not gone through zone 1 (the centre of London) but it is unlikely you will come across those.

[sparky-elpaso]

The easiest way is to get a pre-pay Oystercard and load it up with money. You use what you use and then get a refund of any unused at the end of your stay. You could keep the card if you are intending to return to London as the credit never expires.

 

The Oyster card automatically caps the deductions at the relevant daily travelcard amount.

 

Remember - on the tube always touch in on the yellow reader and touch out. If you do not touch in and out you get done for the highest fare (ouch!)

 

The buses are a one touch system (flat fare per ride).

 

There are a couple of wrinkles when traveling in the outer areas to show that you have not gone through zone 1 (the centre of London) but it is unlikely you will come across those.

 

So, in other words the Oyster card works like a debit card. Can two people use one card or do both of us have to have one?

 

With distances in London being pretty reasonable I'm thinking we'll probably walk if at all possible - we can see more that way. The longest distance we would be going would be from Harrod's to our hotel near the British Museum which is only a little more than 2 miles - not a bad distance for someone in pretty good shape.

[windplayer]

London, my favourite city, after Sydney of course. We were travelling with a family of four and were in the city for 5 days. The two adults had a 7 day travel card as this was apparently cheaper than an oyster card, our 11 year old was bought a daily child's ticket each day, as there are no travel cards for kids, and our nine year old was free. The travel card was for zone 1 and 2 and honestly, we certainly got our money's worth. Although some of London is close together, others are quite a walk, and if you are wanting to see a lot of things the trains are a lot quicker. (Also don't forget the weather) If we wanted to go further, (we went to Windsor, Watford, for Harry Potter and out to Heathrow) we were able to top up the card for that trip or sometimes it was cheaper just to buy an extra ticket to the destination. We were guided by the people at the ticket office, who seem very keen that London rail (or whatever their name is) don't make any extra money. They will show you the cost comparison. Don't worry about forgetting to swipe your card at the end of the trip, you can't get out of the station unless you swipe. AT Heathrow, we turned in our cards and received 5 pounds for returning the card, plus a return on whatever value was left on the card. ( please don't ask me actual figures, my job was to make sure that mine and the kids cards didn't get lost) ;)

[hancogran]

We spent five days in London this past May and we found the Oyster card worked best for us. I was also totally confused about the Travelcard vs Oyster card but it all worked out. We purchased one Oyster card each and put 25 pound on each card. Like most tourists, we did a LOT of walking in London but also used the Oyster card a fair bit on both the underground and the buses.

 

I believe it was a 5 pound deposit we had to put on each card but the night before we were due to leave London, we walked a few blocks to Paddington station, handed in our Oyster cards and got back approx. 12 pounds each which was the unused balance on each card and included the 5 pound deposit.

 

It was such an easy way to travel and we'd definitely use the Oyster card again if we went back to London. :)

[hancogran]

So, in other words the Oyster card works like a debit card. Can two people use one card or do both of us have to have one?

 

With distances in London being pretty reasonable I'm thinking we'll probably walk if at all possible - we can see more that way. The longest distance we would be going would be from Harrod's to our hotel near the British Museum which is only a little more than 2 miles - not a bad distance for someone in pretty good shape.

 

You need one card for each person. :)

[Bob++]

You may have noticed a reference to 'Mornington Crescent' above. This is not only a station, but the name of a game, whose rules are so abstruse, as to defy analysis.

 

To give you a flavour, this is a link to a transcript of a game where a new player was being introduced. If you are interested, the page also has links to the complete rules, and the history of the game.

 

http://www.isihac.co.uk/games/mcvariations/novice.html

[Cotswold Eagle]

Don't worry about forgetting to swipe your card at the end of the trip, you can't get out of the station unless you swipe.

 

This may be true for all the stations you used (and is generally true for stations in Central London) but it is NOT universally true. Many stations on the Docklands Light Railway and some local rail stations have no barriers. You must also remember to "swipe out" if the barriers are already open for some reason, such as overcrowding.

[windplayer]

You're right, we were at the central stations close to all the touristy things. Further off the beaten track may be a different story. We did use the DLR to go to cutty sark. Now you've got me trying to think if we swiped out? I'll wonder about that for days now.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Cotswold Eagle]

You're right, we were at the central stations close to all the touristy things. Further off the beaten track may be a different story. We did use the DLR to go to cutty sark. Now you've got me trying to think if we swiped out? I'll wonder about that for days now.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

I hope so because there are no barriers there :)

 

Of course, it depends where you got on - if it was a DLR-only station, as opposed to the interchange from the tube at Bank, you might not have swiped in either and done the entire journey for free! The DLR has very low levels of fare evasion, despite being almost completely open - the only checks are done by roving ticket inspectors.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Cotswold Eagle

[windplayer]

Yes you're right! And yes we did the change at Bank so we swiped, and I think we did have a roving ticket inspector. I can stop wondering Phew;)

[jsmeeker]

Just got back from a week stay in London. Started off with an Oyster Card with £15 on it. (total of £20). Just tapped in and out as I went. Used nothing but tubes until Saturday. On Saturday, we headed to Greenwich. Was originally going to use the tube (Central Line, starting at Marble Arch) plus DLR to get there, but Google mentioned something about service issues on either the Central Line or the DLR (or maybe both) so we opted for tube plus bus (Jubilee line starting at Bond to North Greenwich, then the 188 bus). I am a little confused as to what zone we got dinged for going to North Greenwich. It appears to be in two zones (2 and 3)

 

In any case, before I got to the gates at Bond, I checked my card figuring I might be close to not having enough money. Sure enough, I had 30p on there. So, I topped off with £5. On the way back, after getting back to North Greenwich via the 188 bus, I checked my balance again. I needed to top up AGAIN. Add another £5. I think I might have maybe gotten confused about the max that could come out per day. Maybe because I was looking at the 1 day off peak travel card rate. I certainly traveled during peak times because on several mornings, we were out and on the tube and at some destination before 9:30 AM.

 

My understanding is that you can buy and Oystercard and then load on a multi day travel card to it PLUS some money for the PAYG part. That way you can mix and match if you need to travel off to zones the Travelcard doesn't cover.

 

Anyway, it doesn't need to be super complicated. I decided the 7 day travel card was more than I needed. I think based on what I actually spent, I made the right choice for my amounts of rides. I think I rode tubes and busses a little less than I had initially planned. Also, remember that busses are separate charges. It's not like in some other cities where a ride on a subway or a light rail gets you a free transfer/ride to a bus. I did encounter a fare inspector. That was on he 188 bus into Greenwich. I also kept my Oyster Card. Not sure exactly what's left on it, but is should be less than £5. I can save it for next time, or give (lend) to a friend that goes to London.

[milolii]

We purchases seven day cards (zones 1&2) for our five day stay this past summer. We used the tube some and walked some. I estimated what we needed before we left for London. Several travel guidebooks suggest if you use it for two or more rides a day for 4 days, the seven day card is probably worth it. I also decided I did not want to stop and get additional tickets or top off a card. We bought the cards and did not worry about it again. Good heavens if I want to worry about topping off cards or buying tickets I can do that using BART! And without the 12 hour plane ride! LOL!

 

As other posters have commented, it is very convoluted. Another option would be to invite friends over, open a bottle of wine, or pour a pint of Bass and then decide what you need! (Joking here)

 

We still have the cards. Put them away with the passports. Hopefully that means we can go visit London again.

 

 

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[Globaliser]

Those who ride the buses and Underground trains in London on daily basis have a strong financial motive to learn precisely how the Oyster cards and Travelcards cost out, regardless of the complexity.

I have to disagree with this.

 

Most of my London family and friends don't care a jot how the Oyster system works. Either they know that they're commuting using public transport regularly enough that a long duration Travelcard works better for them; or they know that the pre-paid Oyster system ensures that they're paying the lowest cash fares and being capped at less than the day Travelcard rates, so they use it and don't even have to think about what it's doing or how much is being deducted.

 

I'm in the latter group and use a pre-paid Oyster because I'm on the cusp of that choice but just the wrong side for a long duration Travelcard. I also have an auto top-up set up so I don't even have to think about putting more money on the card.

 

Conversely, I've never known any group of people angst so much about how pre-paid Oysters work as CC members coming here for a few days.

[Globaliser]

I have two bits of confusion about Oyster cards, both of them stemming from the promise that "...you'll never pay more than the cost of an equivalent Day Travelcard."

 

... Or is the situation that if I stay within zones 1-2, my Oyster card cap is the Zone 1-2 Travelcard cost, but as soon as I venture into Zone 3, my daily cap automatically rises to the Zone 1-4 Travel card cost?

As I alluded to above, the Oyster price cap is now lower - in some cases significantly - than the one-day Travelcard price.

 

For example, a Zone 1-2 (which contain most tourist locations) peak one-day Travelcard is £9.00 (peak). If you only travel within those zones and want a one-day off-peak Travelcard, the price is £8.90 (because you get Zones 1-6).

 

The corresponding Oyster price caps if you only travel in these zones are now £8.40 and £7.00 respectively. In the case of off-peak travel, the differential is now very marked.