Group Perks: who knows the real rules????

[Alaskalovr]

Okay,

I don't want more than I deserve but I do want to get what I am entitled to. I am pretty confused by all of the conflicting information available about the free berth you can earn with group bookings. Does anyone here have enough personal experience with it to answer some questions such as what exactly is a category and does:o the travel agent still get their commission on the free berth? I am very upset right now about the way Royal has handled our group and I just want to really know what I am actually entitled to. Thanks for any information!

[leaveitallbehind]

Okay,

I don't want more than I deserve but I do want to get what I am entitled to. I am pretty confused by all of the conflicting information available about the free berth you can earn with group bookings. Does anyone here have enough personal experience with it to answer some questions such as what exactly is a category and does:o the travel agent still get their commission on the free berth? I am very upset right now about the way Royal has handled our group and I just want to really know what I am actually entitled to. Thanks for any information!

 

My understanding is 8 staterooms at double occupancy (16 people) of the same category yields one person's stateroom rate credit within that category. Same whether through RCI group sales directly or a TA. The credit value to you is also not related to the TA"s commission. I believe mixed categories yields the lowest category value for the credit.

Edited August 5, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[mheinrich]

Here's a link to the group policies. Hopefully it will work. Policies are not standard across the board. It will all depend on HOW you book the group. If I can answer any specific questions for you, I'd be more than happy to. If the link doesn't work, I can also email you the PDF if the link doesn't work.

 

I tried to upload it on here, but it's 6 pages long and says it's too big to attach.

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/Groups/13033770_2013_Groups_Your_Way_Guidelines_FLYER.pdf

[MagicMike]

Okay,

I don't want more than I deserve but I do want to get what I am entitled to. I am pretty confused by all of the conflicting information available about the free berth you can earn with group bookings. Does anyone here have enough personal experience with it to answer some questions such as what exactly is a category and does:o the travel agent still get their commission on the free berth? I am very upset right now about the way Royal has handled our group and I just want to really know what I am actually entitled to. Thanks for any information!

 

No there is no commission on a free berth. Categories are D1, E1, E2, D2 etc.

 

The tour conductor credit is based on the cruise only fare before taxes and non-commisionable items. So that free berth still has to pay taxes and NCF's

 

Your travel agent should be able to answer that question for you, here are the rules:

 

For all itineraries, one cruise-only tour conductor credit is earned for every

sixteen (16) full-tariff guests, based on double occupancy.

 

The value of the cruise-only tour conductor credit is determined by the category most sold within the Group. If the same number of staterooms has been sold in two or more categories, the value is based on the lowest of those categories. If multiple pricepoints exist for the category in which the tour conductor credit is earned, the lowest pricepoint will be used for payment purposes.

 

Singles paying 200% of the full fare count as two (2) guests for tour conductor purposes.

Edited August 5, 2014 by MagicMike

[Alaskalovr]

No there is no commission on a free berth. Categories are D1, E1, E2, D2 etc.

 

The tour conductor credit is based on the cruise only fare before taxes and non-commisionable items. So that free berth still has to pay taxes and NCF's

 

Your travel agent should be able to answer that question for you, here are the rules:

 

For all itineraries, one cruise-only tour conductor credit is earned for every

sixteen (16) full-tariff guests, based on double occupancy.

 

The value of the cruise-only tour conductor credit is determined by the category most sold within the Group. If the same number of staterooms has been sold in two or more categories, the value is based on the lowest of those categories. If multiple pricepoints exist for the category in which the tour conductor credit is earned, the lowest pricepoint will be used for payment purposes.

 

Singles paying 200% of the full fare count as two (2) guests for tour

 

conductor purposes.

 

Thanks for your response. Here is where I feel there is a discrepancy. The definition of category on Royal's website is that there are 4 categories. Inside, Outside, Balcony and Suite. It is not clear that inside of those categories there is a subset of room type and inside of that is another set of categories of E1, E2 D1 etc. Nowhere on the website does it refer to that differentiation. It seems so illogical to make you have all E1's or E2's when the only difference is how many people can use that room or location. How would think that Royal would rather have you all book E2's which cost a little bit less ($20) than to mix in E1's. I understand that the credit would only be the cheapest room in the balcony category but I thought they would count all E's as a balcony category. Also, the resolution dept, which is one of the many. many people I spoke to, said the Travel Agent does get their commission. That is the problem I am having. Everyone I have spoken to gives me a different answer. I was hoping to hear from people who have actually booked groups and can share how it actually worked.

[leaveitallbehind]

Also, the resolution dept, which is one of the many. many people I spoke to, said the Travel Agent does get their commission.

 

Not sure what difference that would make. The credit issued for a group booking is the same to the booking party whether you book directly through RCI group sales or through a TA. The commission the TA would - or would not - receive, or whether it includes the credited passenger or not, has no affect on the credit value you would receive. :confused:

Edited August 5, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[mheinrich]

When you book your group, you're the one that picks the categories. Lets say you want 10 Cat K, 5 Cat D1, 5 Jr. Suites. You get a contract based on the specific rooms you're holding. Then the free birth is going to be based on the room you've sold the most of.

 

Now, that does not mean you can't BOOK other cabins, just means you're guaranteed to those cabins you're holding until the release date on the contract.

 

If you want/need a cat room that you're not holding, you just book that room and then have it pulled into the group.

 

Does that help?

[mheinrich]

This may also help you. This is the current list of GAP points. When you select a sailing, that sailing will have a number of GAP points assigned to it. The person booking the group gets to select how to use those points.

 

Just remember, not all sailing have GAP points and the ones that do can range from 2-10 or more.

 

http://www.cruisingpower.com/content/en_US/PDF/rci_gap_list.pdf

[Alaskalovr]

Not sure what difference that would make. The credit issued for a group booking is the same to the booking party whether you book directly through RCI group sales or through a TA. The commission the TA would - or would not - receive, or whether it includes the credited passenger or not, has no affect on the credit value you would receive. :confused:

 

Agreed, except if the travel agent tells you they have to take their commission out of the credit Royal gives you otherwise they have to waive their credit. If they are in fact waiving their credit, I would certainly at the very least want to be appreciative of that and thank them and have the option to still give them their commission. If in fact Royal is still giving them their commission then I don't need to give it to them also and they are not actually waiving their commission. Again, just so I know how things are really working. Thanks for your response.

[leaveitallbehind]

Agreed, except if the travel agent tells you they have to take their commission out of the credit Royal gives you otherwise they have to waive their credit. If they are in fact waiving their credit, I would certainly at the very least want to be appreciative of that and thank them and have the option to still give them their commission. If in fact Royal is still giving them their commission then I don't need to give it to them also and they are not actually waiving their commission. Again, just so I know how things are really working. Thanks for your response.

 

Any commission paid to a TA is strictly between RCI and the TA and should not be relative to any discussion by the TA with you.

 

If I am understanding you correctly and what the TA is saying is that additional perks or OBC's exclusive to you from them would need to be waived, that is different as any non RCI, TA sponsored OBC is directly from their commission and at their discretion.

 

But IMO I don't think it is the best business practice for them to discuss that in a manner that could lead you to believe that they are somehow not receiving their full benefit from the cruise line for their booking for not issuing a separate out of pocket perk to you. They are paid the same either way for that booking, which again should have no bearing on you or the group credit RCI issues you.

 

I doubt that RCI is handling the group booking poorly - after all it is their policy. It sounds to me more like maybe misleading information being issued by the TA that is slanting that view??

Edited August 5, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[mheinrich]

Sounds like the TA is trying to take your GAP points for her own benefit.

 

To answer your question, the TA DOES receive standard commission for the booking. If they use the GAP points they can increase the commission.

 

 

Agreed, except if the travel agent tells you they have to take their commission out of the credit Royal gives you otherwise they have to waive their credit. If they are in fact waiving their credit, I would certainly at the very least want to be appreciative of that and thank them and have the option to still give them their commission. If in fact Royal is still giving them their commission then I don't need to give it to them also and they are not actually waiving their commission. Again, just so I know how things are really working. Thanks for your response.

[njmomof2]

Is your specific question whether the TA receives a commission on the "free" berth? If so, then no, they don't. Commission is only calculated on berths that are fully paid, so if there is a free berth being credited (and please remember that this is cruise fare only, which has what are called non commissionable amounts and taxes/fees removed), and someone is taking that berth or if the TA is giving the group a credit in that amount, they are not earning any commission on that 17th berth.

 

If there are GAP points, one of the perks is additional commission to the TA. If they are using those points to increase their commission because they are losing out on 1 berth, then that is something you needed to discuss with the TA at the start...what amenity will be given to the group? Did you negotiate OBC or some other gift and now they are taking that back?

 

I had a group a few years ago on Mariner. They had enough to earn the tour conductor credit. That amount is paid to the TA AFTER completion of the sailing. We then gave the credit back to the group.

Edited August 5, 2014 by njmomof2

[Alaskalovr]

Any commission paid to a TA is strictly between RCI and the TA and should not be relative to any discussion by the TA with you.

 

If I am understanding you correctly and what the TA is saying is that additional perks or OBC's exclusive to you from them would need to be waived, that is different as any non RCI, TA sponsored OBC is directly from their commission and at their discretion.

 

But IMO I don't think it is the best business practice for them to discuss that in a manner that could lead you to believe that they are somehow not receiving their full benefit from the cruise line for their booking for not issuing a separate out of pocket perk to you. They are paid the same either way for that booking, which again should have no bearing on you or the group credit RCI issues you.

 

I doubt that RCI is handling the group booking poorly - after all it is their policy. It sounds to me more like maybe misleading information being issued by the TA that is slanting that view??

 

No, I do not think you are understanding me correctly, and I was trying not to give the specific details in our case but instead was trying to get the general info for my knowledge. But to be more direct, the TA specifically told the leader of our group that her commission would have to come out of the free berth credit. In other words, after Royal Caribbean determined the base fare to be credited ( full fare - taxes, port fees, Nccf) then the TA would also take out her commission. She then told the leader she was going to waive this fee as a wedding gift. If Royal is still giving her her commission above the credit for the berth then she is not really giving the leader a gift and shame on her. But if she loses her commission on the free berth and her policy is to charge that to the client normally then she is giving her a gift and we would want to acknowledge that.

I agree that the TA may be giving us misleading information, but I also believe the information on RC's website is just as misleading. Plus, I have gotten as many different answers as people I have spoken to. The oness for that is on Royal Caribbean. Just like on here. Some one said yes, the TA still gets that commission, someone else said absolutely not. I just want to know the real honest answer. And I only want to know so that I can be confident that we get what we are entitled to; nothing more and nothing less. I believe the TA deserves their commission and am not trying to get more at the TA's cost. I think defining the category by E1's or E2's etc doesn't make a lot of logical sense to me but I am willing to abide by those rules since that is RC's policy. I just wish that policy was more clear on their website. Had I known it was determined that way instead of by main categories, that may have allowed us to move some people up to another level. I just want all of the info now so that in the future I can make choices based on how things really work. I appreciate the info. Sounds like you know what you are talking about but also that you feel I don't really need to know. I hope you can understand now why I want to know.

[Alaskalovr]

Sounds like the TA is trying to take your GAP points for her own benefit.

 

To answer your question, the TA DOES receive standard commission for the booking. If they use the GAP points they can increase the commission.

 

 

I don't think they are trying to take our GAP points. The organizer of our group was told she had to pay the TA's commission out of the amount credited from Royal Caribbean. She did then waive that fee and said it was a wedding gift. But if she was really still getting a commission then she is not really "giving" a gift.

[Alaskalovr]

Is your specific question whether the TA receives a commission on the "free" berth? If so, then no, they don't. Commission is only calculated on berths that are fully paid, so if there is a free berth being credited (and please remember that this is cruise fare only, which has what are called non commissionable amounts and taxes/fees removed), and someone is taking that berth or if the TA is giving the group a credit in that amount, they are not earning any commission on that 17th berth.

 

If there are GAP points, one of the perks is additional commission to the TA. If they are using those points to increase their commission because they are losing out on 1 berth, then that is something you needed to discuss with the TA at the start...what amenity will be given to the group? Did you negotiate OBC or some other gift and now they are taking that back?

 

I had a group a few years ago on Mariner. They had enough to earn the tour conductor credit. That amount is paid to the TA AFTER completion of the sailing. We then gave the credit back to the group.

 

Yes, basically one of my questions was if the TA gets commission on the free berth. Problem is even on here, I have already received conflicting information. Thanks for your answer though.I appreciate your response.

[critterchick]

Yes, basically one of my questions was if the TA gets commission on the free berth. Problem is even on here, I have already received conflicting information. Thanks for your answer though.I appreciate your response.

 

It's the TA who decides what happens to the free berth credit, including keeping it all for him or herself, unless that point has been discussed and agreed upon as part of the group booking (or somebody finds out later and raises Cain). I don't know of any who do that, but I do know a TA has set up a group with the understanding that any TC credit will be donated to charity. She discloses that to her group in advance.

[Alaskalovr]

It's the TA who decides what happens to the free berth credit, including keeping it all for him or herself, unless that point has been discussed and agreed upon as part of the group booking (or somebody finds out later and raises Cain). I don't know of any who do that, but I do know a TA has set up a group with the understanding that any TC credit will be donated to charity. She discloses that to her group in advance.

 

 

Do you mean the travel agent or the person who organizes the group? Can a travel agent or agency actually have a different policy than Royal Caribbean when they are acting as their partner? I know they can do what they want with the GAP points unless you have an agreement ahead of time, but I didn't think they had control over your berth credit.

[mheinrich]

I'm sorry you're getting so many different answers, but the reality is, there really ARE that many different answers when it comes to groups on Royal Caribbean.

 

To answer the question about commission on the free birth. The answer is no. Travel agents do NOT receive commission on that one birth (does receive commission on the booking because the second person in the room would still generate commission). I knew for sure, but looked at my last group contract just to double check....no commission.

 

Other than that, all travel agents have the discretion to offer groups in their terms. Royal Caribbean offers choices, it's up the the TA or the group leader to pick which choices work best for them, and then you hope the TA follows through with your arrangement.

 

Good luck!

[LovesCruising]

when you group was booked with the travel agent - was TC discussed?

Gap points and commission have nothing to do with the free berth.

Was the travel agent planning on keeping that payment from the free berth or giving it to the group leader to do as they pleased with it

[Alaskalovr]

when you group was booked with the travel agent - was TC discussed?

Gap points and commission have nothing to do with the free berth.

Was the travel agent planning on keeping that payment from the free berth or giving it to the group leader to do as they pleased with it

 

 

What do you mean commission has nothing to do with free berth(s)? The free berth was to be applied first to the room of the bride and groom and then to the Mother of the bride if any left over. The TA is now saying that her commissiom has to come out of that credit first. Royal Caribbean told me that the TA still gets their commission but many people on here say they do not. Many here say the free berth does not generate commission therefore the TA didn't receive commission for that person. So which is it?

[mheinrich]

If you don't mind me asking....how much is this TA claiming is commission on ONE birth? Seems like such a small amount to even worry about when she's getting commission on the rest of the group. Unless she's trying to tell you it's a lot more than it really is. Not to mention, TA's who work on commission don't receive the entire 100% commission so we're talking a percentage of the small commission amount on one birth.

 

Can't believe a TA would risk pissing off customer who brought them a group for what $40???

[njmomof2]

What do you mean commission has nothing to do with free berth(s)? The free berth was to be applied first to the room of the bride and groom and then to the Mother of the bride if any left over. The TA is now saying that her commissiom has to come out of that credit first. Royal Caribbean told me that the TA still gets their commission but many people on here say they do not. Many here say the free berth does not generate commission therefore the TA didn't receive commission for that person. So which is it?

 

Okay, let me try to help you again...

 

Let's say you book a group with 10 double occupancy cabins. That's 20 actual "berths". For every 16 "berths" there is a credit given in the amount of one "berth", less non commissionable amounts, fees and taxes. That amount is based on the category (G, L, E1, JS) that has the most bookings in the group.

 

Now, the final invoice will give the price to be paid for the entire group. Everyone will pay their costs, and after the cruise, the amount allocated to the free "berth" will be sent to the TA in a check. What your TA does with this is something to be discussed and decided in advance.

 

There is no commission paid on the free "berth". However, the TA is earning commission on every other berth booked and paid. Essentially, Royal calculates the value of the free berth, deducts that from the commissionable amount, pays the commission on the lower amount, and send the TA a check for the free berth.

 

For the TA to be saying that they are going to take their commission out of the tour conductor credit is kind of cheap, IMHO. As I said previously, I rebated the TC back to my group after the sailing, and they divided it amongst themselves. You need to understand that the single berth TC is really not that much in most cases. Unless this is a very expensive cruise, or a higher level suite, once the non commissionable amount is removed, it's not all that much. You mentioned that you expected the TA to apply the TC to the bride and groom and then the MOTB if any was left over. There will be nothing left over. Especially if the category most booked is below that of the bride and groom, meaning the amount is less than what each of them paid. And remember also, it's a SINGLE BERTH, not a whole room.

 

If you're doing a group, and you know there is a TC and you agree to give it back to the group, then you don't do something cheap and take your commission on that single berth out of the TC. Especially if it's a wedding group and you want to generate good will. It's a cost of doing business. If they wanted their commission on a berth not paying, then they should have been up front about it and discussed it first. To now try to say they are entitled to commission on a berth that is being rebated is not something I would do.

 

I hope that this helps explain it a bit more. I know it's a lot of information, but each group can be planned and paid out differently by each TA, and they can design each group to fit the needs of the passengers.

Edited August 5, 2014 by njmomof2

[LovesCruising]

What do you mean commission has nothing to do with free berth(s)? The free berth was to be applied first to the room of the bride and groom and then to the Mother of the bride if any left over. The TA is now saying that her commissiom has to come out of that credit first. Royal Caribbean told me that the TA still gets their commission but many people on here say they do not. Many here say the free berth does not generate commission therefore the TA didn't receive commission for that person. So which is it?

 

When the travel agent agree's to block group space - they are well aware they very well could be a free berth involved - if they don't get commission on it they know that going in.

 

If the deal with the travel agent was the free berth was to be applied to the bride and groom and then to the mother - the travel agent should honor that - how many free berths are involved here?

 

Your free berth is the lowest category (not type) of the most cabins booked. (averaged)

 

no no - She should be recovering the commission she lost on the free berth. - she is trying to recover the $ she is not getting on he free berth commission - that's pretty lousey

 

She doesn't get commission on something that's free - she gets commission tho on the other passenger in that cabin.

 

She knew that going into a group booking.

 

She gets commission on whats paid for - what more does she want?

 

Who negotiated this group? That's the person who needs to be presenting their case to the travel agent - if she never said this up front - and the free berth was to be given back to the group leader for the bride and groom and the mother - she should honor that.

 

Edit: Oh and by the way - the free berth is not paid by Royal Caribbean until after all the final payments have been received -sometimes very close to sail date in fact and its received by the travel agent via check or however their agency receives commissions. So I would think the bride and groom and mother would have had to have made final payment in full before any monies are recovered.

Edited August 5, 2014 by LovesCruising

[LovesCruising]

Okay, let me try to help you again...

 

Let's say you book a group with 10 double occupancy cabins. That's 20 actual "berths". For every 16 "berths" there is a credit given in the amount of one "berth", less non commissionable amounts, fees and taxes. That amount is based on the category (G, L, E1, JS) that has the most bookings in the group.

 

Now, the final invoice will give the price to be paid for the entire group. Everyone will pay their costs, and after the cruise, the amount allocated to the free "berth" will be sent to the TA in a check. What your TA does with this is something to be discussed and decided in advance.

 

There is no commission paid on the free "berth". However, the TA is earning commission on every other berth booked and paid. Essentially, Royal calculates the value of the free berth, deducts that from the commissionable amount, pays the commission on the lower amount, and send the TA a check for the free berth.

 

For the TA to be saying that they are going to take their commission out of the tour conductor credit is kind of cheap, IMHO. As I said previously, I rebated the TC back to my group after the sailing, and they divided it amongst themselves. You need to understand that the single berth TC is really not that much in most cases. Unless this is a very expensive cruise, or a higher level suite, once the non commissionable amount is removed, it's not all that much. You mentioned that you expected the TA to apply the TC to the bride and groom and then the MOTB if any was left over. There will be nothing left over. Especially if the category most booked is below that of the bride and groom, meaning the amount is less than what each of them paid. And remember also, it's a SINGLE BERTH, not a whole room.

 

If you're doing a group, and you know there is a TC and you agree to give it back to the group, then you don't do something cheap and take your commission on that single berth out of the TC. Especially if it's a wedding group and you want to generate good will. It's a cost of doing business. If they wanted their commission on a berth not paying, then they should have been up front about it and discussed it first. To now try to say they are entitled to commission on a berth that is being rebated is not something I would do.

 

I hope that this helps explain it a bit more. I know it's a lot of information, but each group can be planned and paid out differently by each TA, and they can design each group to fit the needs of the passengers.

 

OMG NJMOM - he said it better than I did - thank you! What I was trying to say but not as well as you did! This is so frustrating because I am not sure how many free berths we are talking about or who the group leader is - and what was discussed/negotiated when booked.

[critterchick]

Do you mean the travel agent or the person who organizes the group? Can a travel agent or agency actually have a different policy than Royal Caribbean when they are acting as their partner? I know they can do what they want with the GAP points unless you have an agreement ahead of time, but I didn't think they had control over your berth credit.

 

RCI's policy is to pay the TC credit to the travel agent and let him or her work out with the group how the TC is treated. Most agents with whom I have associated will use the credit to pay for a cocktail party or some other event onboard for the group, donate it to charity or refund the credit to the group in cash. That is something that should be discussed with the group leader up front.