Should cruise ships have lifeguards ???

[smeyer418]

Chuckecheese does not allow adults in without accompanying children. I also never leave the grand kids alone at a pool with or without a lifequard and my son will tell you that when he was in a pool with a life guard with a kick board that got away from him I was there before the life guard. so at best its a shared responsibility. No one wants the lawsuit just a health child.

[DirtyDawg]

The fact that this question is even asked shows the sheer absurdity the law has reached. If I go to Spain, see an unnattended pool with a sign in Spanish that I can't read, and my four-year-old falls in drowns, there is no way on earth the hotel is at fault. It's just not rational to think it is.

 

A child that is not safe in certain surroundings must not be allowed off the lead in those surroundings - and if that means you can't cruise because you can't control your four-year-old, so be it.

 

Are you speaking as a lawyer trained in Spanish law?

[CPT Trips]

This unfortunate accident occurred in the "wave pool" according to the press. Isn't that the Flow Rider? Or, is there another wave pool too?

 

The flow rider has limited operating hours, size restrictions and requires a waiver. All that points to RCCL staffers being present when it is in use. What purpose would a lifeguard there serve?

[dsrdsrdsr]

Are you speaking as a lawyer trained in Spanish law?

 

I'm not talking about "law" at all. I'm talking about real life. And if I go to a hotel, or a ship for that matter, where I know there is a swimming pool with no wall round it and no lifeguard, and I know my child can't swim, and I know he isn't reliable enough not to fall in - then if I let him off the lead (and I'm talking more or less literally here) near the pool - then it's my fault, not the hotel's.

 

(FWIW, I don't actually have a child. But I do have nephews and nieces.)

[DirtyDawg]

I'm not talking about "law" at all. I'm talking about real life. And if I go to a hotel, or a ship for that matter, where I know there is a swimming pool with no wall round it and no lifeguard, and I know my child can't swim, and I know he isn't reliable enough not to fall in - then if I let him off the lead (and I'm talking more or less literally here) near the pool - then it's my fault, not the hotel's.

 

(FWIW, I don't actually have a child. But I do have nephews and nieces.)

 

Respectively, what you know or feel is irrelevant. What is relevant is the legal liability of the entity who owns and operates the pool. Courts thankfully don't base their judgments on lay persons' feeling, they base them on the law and legal precedents. And that is the real world that RCL and the other cruise lines operate in.

 

That's why I asked only Legal Eagles to chime in.:rolleyes:

 

If I want plumbing advise about a clog I do not care what my accountant knows or feels about clogs.:p

Edited January 9, 2015 by DirtyDawg

[navybankerteacher]

Are you speaking as a lawyer trained in Spanish law?

 

Common sense does not require training - and no amount of training can plant it in an unfertile intellect.

[DirtyDawg]

Common sense does not require training - and no amount of training can plant it in an unfertile intellect.

 

Sarah Palin and Peewee Herman couldn't have said it better.;)

[navybankerteacher]

Sarah Palin and Peewee Herman couldn't have said it better.;)

 

I take it they are your muses.

[DirtyDawg]

I take it they are your muses.

 

Sorry, Albert and John Maynard are my muses.

 

Sarah and Peewee all all yours.

 

But I do have to admit that Sarah's been a muse of mine once or twice but not intellectually.;)

 

 

..............................................for comedic inspiration. :)

 

 

Will you be my new Sarah?....Please!

Edited January 9, 2015 by DirtyDawg

[Karysa]

Common sense does not require training - and no amount of training can plant it in an unfertile intellect.

 

I think we learn common sense as we grow up. We learn not to touch a hot stove because we will burn ourselves. We learn to wear a warm coat when the weather drops. We learn to save for a rainy day because hard times may fall. Hopefully our parents, teachers and mentors have helped us along the way. Some folks end up with more common sense than others but I think it's a learning process. That is why good parenting is soooo important. Hats off to those that have given it their all.:)

[dsrdsrdsr]

Respectively, what you know or feel is irrelevant. What is relevant is the legal liability of the entity who owns and operates the pool. Courts thankfully don't base their judgments on lay persons' feeling, they base them on the law and legal precedents. And that is the real world that RCL and the other cruise lines operate in.

 

That's why I asked only Legal Eagles to chime in.:rolleyes:

 

If I want plumbing advise about a clog I do not care what my accountant knows or feels about clogs.:p

Mr. Bumble wasn't a lawyer, but he was prefectly entitled to say "if that is the law, then the law is an ass". You can't restrict a thread to lawyers only, it's a public forum; and you don't have to be a lawyer to have an opinion on the law.

 

(Though as it happens, I have heard of children drowning in Spanish hotels, and I've never heard of the hotel being legally liable. So in this case, in Spain at least, maybe the law is right.)

[DirtyDawg]

Mr. Bumble wasn't a lawyer, but he was prefectly entitled to say "if that is the law, then the law is an ass". You can't restrict a thread to lawyers only, it's a public forum; and you don't have to be a lawyer to have an opinion on the law.

 

(Though as it happens, I have heard of children drowning in Spanish hotels, and I've never heard of the hotel being legally liable. So in this case, in Spain at least, maybe the law is right.)

 

I wasn't restricting the thread to lawyers only, I was merely asking for an informed opinion. You and I are not lawyers so our opinions are lay persons' opinions. When I need tax advise I ask my tax accountant. My plumber may have an opinion on the subject but I don't file my taxes based on his opinion or feelings.:rolleyes:

 

BTW since when are you the repository of all legal settlements knowledge regarding drownings in Spain? i.e. there are lots of trees in the forest that fall and make a sound doing so, even if I don't hear them 500 miles away.:rolleyes:

[navybankerteacher]

Sorry, Albert and John Maynard are my muses.

 

Sarah and Peewee all all yours.

 

But I do have to admit that Sarah's been a muse of mine once or twice but not intellectually.;)

 

 

..............................................for comedic inspiration. :)

 

 

Will you be my new Sarah?....Please!

 

You can, of course, select your own muses, but only empty arrogance leads one to feel empowered to assign others' muses.

[kimlovesfl]

For the poster that said a child old enough to walk should know how to swim- swimming isn't a big thing in all parts of the country. I never learned how to swim, my parents didn't swim, my school didn't have a pool, and a lot of the people from my hometown never learned to swim. It just wasn't a big thing there, and now that the community pool has closed, there is even less incentive.

 

To this day, I avoid pools. When we vacationed when I was a child, my parents would purposely look for hotels/motels without pools, because they assumed rooms would be cheaper, and they didn't want to pay for something they would never use. I will go in a hot tub, but rarely, if ever, venture into a pool, and if I do, it is never over 3-3.5' deep. I will not go in the ocean, period.

 

So, if your child can't swim, they really don't belong in the water.

[declansdad]

My DH and I just returned from a Christmas cruise on another line but the problem is the same. Children are left to play in the pool while the parents drink at the bar or read in the shade. There are too many children that their parents feel they can swim so no problem. But with the jumping and running around, it is an accident waiting to happen. There should be monitors just to keep the children safe. Parents feel they are on vacation and they forget they have the responsibility still to watch their children. Too bad about this little boy. We pray for a good outcome.

 

Eileen

 

 

If the children are young they should be monitored by their parents. Providing monitors or lifeguards would simply make these parents feel they have a babysitter and don't need to pay attention at all.

[Karysa]

If the children are young they should be monitored by their parents. Providing monitors or lifeguards would simply make these parents feel they have a babysitter and don't need to pay attention at all.

 

That is pretty much what poster PVGAL said happened on her recent Christmas cruise and that's why she felt monitors at the pool were needed because some parents were not watching their children. Not saying that letting the kiddies run amuck is acceptable BTW, just think that they need watching around swimming pools.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Karysa

[DirtyDawg]

I take it they are your muses.

 

You can, of course, select your own muses, but only empty arrogance leads one to feel empowered to assign others' muses.

 

Agreed.

[sparky-elpaso]

That is pretty much what poster PVGAL said happened on her recent Christmas cruise and that's why she felt monitors at the pool were needed because some parents were not watching their children. Not saying that letting the kiddies run amuck is acceptable BTW, just think that they need watching around swimming pools.

 

Unfortunately those parents who aren't watching their kids around the pools are most likely the ones who would have a hissy fit if a crew member said anything to their little darlings.

[MSN-Travelers]

unfortunately those parents who aren't watching their kids around the pools are most likely the ones who would have a hissy fit if a crew member said anything to their little darlings.

 

where is the like button!

[luddite]

Unfortunately those parents who aren't watching their kids around the pools are most likely the ones who would have a hissy fit if a crew member said anything to their little darlings.

 

It is difficult to imagine what would happen if the ship had a lifeguard who tried to explain acceptable behavior to feral children and their 'parents'.

[Karysa]

It is difficult to imagine what would happen if the ship had a lifeguard who tried to explain acceptable behavior to feral children and their 'parents'.

 

Too bad what they say or do. Kids have been kicked out of adult comedy shows and casinos and on some ships there are curfews so why would listening to a lifeguard be any different.

[dsrdsrdsr]

I wasn't restricting the thread to lawyers only, I was merely asking for an informed opinion. You and I are not lawyers so our opinions are lay persons' opinions. When I need tax advise I ask my tax accountant. My plumber may have an opinion on the subject but I don't file my taxes based on his opinion or feelings.:rolleyes:

 

BTW since when are you the repository of all legal settlements knowledge regarding drownings in Spain? i.e. there are lots of trees in the forest that fall and make a sound doing so, even if I don't hear them 500 miles away.:rolleyes:

 

At risk of banging my head pointlessly at this particular brick wall, you don't need an informed legal opinion to allocate blame. You need an informed legal opinion to allocate the costs/compensation later, but I'm sure that's not the issue. A parent whose child drowns because said parent was inattentive is not going to come away relieved from court thinking "not my fault, nothing to do with me" because the parent will feel at fault whatever the court says.

 

BTW, my comment "I have heard of children drowning in Spanish hotels, and I've never heard of the hotel being legally liable. So in this case, in Spain at least, maybe the law is right". was not intended it to be read as meaning that I knew everything about all legal settlements re. drownings in Spain. I thought the word "maybe" might have been sufficient to imply doubt. I am sorry that you misunderstood.

[SherriZ366]

It is difficult to imagine what would happen if the ship had a lifeguard who tried to explain acceptable behavior to feral children and their 'parents'.

Well said.

[Aquahound]

It is difficult to imagine what would happen if the ship had a lifeguard who tried to explain acceptable behavior to feral children and their 'parents'.

 

Ain't that the truth!!! The days of being able to discipline someone else's kids are long gone. It's a sad, sad truth.

 

Not too long ago, there was a thread here on CC where a mother was complaining about a ships security guard.....a security guard, that is, who caught her son stealing a watch. Her whole gripe was how he handled it, without an ounce of blame for her thief son.

[SherriZ366]

Ain't that the truth!!! The days of being able to discipline someone else's kids are long gone. It's a sad, sad truth.

 

Not too long ago, there was a thread here on CC where a mother was complaining about a ships security guard.....a security guard, that is, who caught her son stealing a watch. Her whole gripe was how he handled it, without an ounce of blame for her thief son.

The days of some people parenting are gone too. The mother who got mad at the security guard for the way he handled her son's theft of a watch with no blame for the son's steeling is more prevalent that we would like.

 

I'm really proud of DD and SIL as they are pretty strict with their 3 year old triplet sons. However, if they weren't relatively strict, they would soon be outnumbered!! (we spoiled DD a lot more as she was an only child but she was still well behaved).

Edited January 10, 2015 by SherriZ366