Held hostage in Livorno port!!

[CathyCruises]

I thought CC was to help inform travelers. That is what I get from it when I come on CC to see about ports. That is what I was doing, letting people know. I appreciate when people post things like this, so that I knew when I went to Istanbul that the tram token machine only takes small turkish lira and things like that. It helps people prepare for their future cruise. That was my only goal and I wanted to help people the way I was helped before my cruise.

 

But it is things like your last comment that make me hate CC. "do a land trip" really? I could have gone all day without reading that. I don't know why people think they can always say rude things online that they would never say in person. What about this thread is so offensive to you?

I guess I will just hang up the CC thing as I am not one to make snarky remarks toward people I don't even know. I was just trying to help future cruisers who may use that port know what the deal is.

 

FWIW I am happy you started this thread and thought it was informative. I agree that if in fact the ONLY way to get out of the port is to take their $12 shuttle, that is akin to being held hostage. We had no trouble getting a taxi right at the dock to go to the train station, but that was several years go and may not be possible now.

 

There are SO many threads on CC about ridiculous things, pages and pages about laundry, people bringing buckets and salad spinners on board to do their laundry! that I am happy to read a post about something that could actually affect me.

[bogofman]

Could you elaborate about the sifracar car hire,

How did you meet up with the hire car rep at the pier (when you say pier do you mean as you walk off the ship)

 

How did you return the car? did you need to arrange a time to hand over the keys?

 

I assume you had prebooked the car online before arrival?

or were there cars for rental at the pier (signup and pay there and then)?

 

Thanks

[cberge]

I thought CC was to help inform travelers. That is what I get from it when I come on CC to see about ports. That is what I was doing, letting people know. I appreciate when people post things like this, so that I knew when I went to Istanbul that the tram token machine only takes small turkish lira and things like that. It helps people prepare for their future cruise. That was my only goal and I wanted to help people the way I was helped before my cruise.

 

But it is things like your last comment that make me hate CC. "do a land trip" really? I could have gone all day without reading that. I don't know why people think they can always say rude things online that they would never say in person. What about this thread is so offensive to you?

I guess I will just hang up the CC thing as I am not one to make snarky remarks toward people I don't even know. I was just trying to help future cruisers who may use that port know what the deal is.

 

I am sorry you took this so personally as it was not directed at/to or about you...it was directed at the amount of posts that I thought covered it way to much.If you personally took offense and thought I was snarky and rude to you I don't know what to say.It was just a comment.I think the CC boards give a great deal of information as there is so much posted here on all the boards.

[Hlitner]

A couple of other points and some answers. Regarding Sifracar they are simply the local Hertz Franchise in Livorno. They provide a great service in that they will deliver a car to the pier (and you can later drop it near the pier) which saves a lot of time and hassle. If you simply go to their web site (http://www.sifracar.com/home.htm?lingua=2) you can click on the "Cruise ship Special" tile on the lower right of the screen. In the interest of fairness, we have sometimes noticed other rental car companies at the pier, but Sifracar does seem to be the most reliable.

 

As to getting out of the port, a lot of folks do eventually get a shared taxi to the train station. While the cost of a taxi to the station is about 25 Euros, this is split among all the passengers. We have often shared a van/taxi and our actual cost to the station was about 5 Euros per person. And even if you could walk from the ship to the port entrance, you would still probably want a taxi if your destination is the center of town or the train station.

 

Hank

[leighuf]

True, I never thought about people who have arranged to go on tours. But as you said.........it is only $12. haha

To make it clear......I did get off the ship, I did take the shuttle. I just did not like finding out as I left the ship that this was the ONLY way out of the port. They need to let people know before hand. Maybe I would have booked an "overly expensive ship excursion" if I had known that it was a better deal.

I still like the comparison someone made about the tender. How would you like to arrive in Grand Caymen, have snorkeling gear in hand, reach the tender and .......oops we forgot to tell you......$12 to get off the ship

 

The Caribbean isn't Europe and yes it's useful to share that info for newbies. The Caribbean caters to tourists; they build complexes just for us at the port like in Cozumel or St. Kitts or Costa Maya or Aruba or Curacao or Belize.

 

"Holding hostage" would not be my reaction. I've lost count of how many ports I've been dropped off at in which I had to pay to get somewhere because it's industrial or not near anything, especially in Europe. Cruising isn't all inclusive and it's important that people realize this, including you. Thus, I'm writing this to let you know. Europe isn't as convenient as the big destinations in the Caribbean. Like Santorini, Greece.... you must either pay to ride a donkey or a take a foil up to the top of the island! Or in Marseille, France, ..... the shuttle is more affordable than the taxis at the industrial port. I'm sorry you didn't find this out before your trip.

[Shawnino]

I have never seen so much (3 pages so far) written about so little (12 euro)..it is a large port,it is in Italy,they use their ports for so much compared to here,they have rule they have make changes accordingly every day..as Texancruzer said"it is what it is"..in the scheme of things a fee of 12 euro to get out of the busy port is nothing. Don't like the portsd...do a land trip.

 

I must disagree.

People shouldn't be sheep--they should demand better.

[Hlitner]

I must disagree.

People shouldn't be sheep--they should demand better.

 

The thing about Europe (especially Italy) is that you can demand all your want (make sure you use a lot of hand action if doing so in Italy) and nobody really cares. After many decades of independent travel throughout Europe we have learned what we think is the secret to being a successful and happy traveler: "you must adapt to the local customs and mores." If one insists on "fighting city hall" they will usually end up being miserable.

 

So the only choice one has is to simply go elsewhere. But if you want to take a Med cruise and see a place like Florence you just have to accept the situation.

 

Hank

[leighuf]

I must disagree.

People shouldn't be sheep--they should demand better.

 

Aren't we already sheep....??? Have you seen the lines at embarkation?? :rolleyes:

[Level six]

The Caribbean isn't Europe and yes it's useful to share that info for newbies. The Caribbean caters to tourists; they build complexes just for us at the port like in Cozumel or St. Kitts or Costa Maya or Aruba or Curacao or Belize.

 

"Holding hostage" would not be my reaction. I've lost count of how many ports I've been dropped off at in which I had to pay to get somewhere because it's industrial or not near anything, especially in Europe. Cruising isn't all inclusive and it's important that people realize this, including you. Thus, I'm writing this to let you know. Europe isn't as convenient as the big destinations in the Caribbean. Like Santorini, Greece.... you must either pay to ride a donkey or a take a foil up to the top of the island! Or in Marseille, France, ..... the shuttle is more affordable than the taxis at the industrial port. I'm sorry you didn't find this out before your trip.

 

The "holding hostage" was a joke, obviously.

I lived in Europe and worked there for over a year. I traveled all over Europe. I am aware of the culture and customs and costs of living and traveling in Europe. I was not comparing Europe to the Caribbean ,the only way to compare not being allowed to leave the ship was comparing it to using a tender.

I have cruised several times, so I also am aware of the "rules" of cruising.

My point was.....again....you cannot leave the port. Can't get an independent taxi(there are none to take unless it is a pre arranged tour or you get one outside the port), can't walk(which would be to far, but Hlitner is my hero for doing so), only choice for us was to take a NCL shuttle. THAT is the point.

I'm was just trying to help future cruisers with information they may not know.

[Shawnino]

The thing about Europe (especially Italy) is that you can demand all your want (make sure you use a lot of hand action if doing so in Italy) and nobody really cares. After many decades of independent travel throughout Europe we have learned what we think is the secret to being a successful and happy traveler: "you must adapt to the local customs and mores." If one insists on "fighting city hall" they will usually end up being miserable.

 

So the only choice one has is to simply go elsewhere. But if you want to take a Med cruise and see a place like Florence you just have to accept the situation.

 

Hank

 

...or just do some civil disobedience and walk clean through eh?

[mickeysgal]

While we agree with your sentiments (we have often criticized the port situation) we are not sure what you expect from NCL. The bottom line is that Livorno is one of the most popular ports for ships in this region of the Med, not for the Port, but for its location. NCL (and the other cruise lines) simply pay fees to use the port but have nothing to say about its operation. The situation with this particular port has existed for as long as we can recall (which is over thirty years).

 

We do wish you luck, but you would probably have better luck writing a letter to Sergio Mattarella who is the current President of Italy.

 

Hank

 

If this is the standard in Livorno, then what I would expect NCL (and all other cruise lines) is to be upfront and clear about additional port shuttle charges that will be necessary when not booking a ship tour (or private tour).

 

It shouldn't come as a surprise to the guest when disembarking.

 

Question - do they publish this necessary port shuttle charge as a FYI in the cruise dailies? Port lectures on board, etc?

[mickeysgal]

FWIW I am happy you started this thread and thought it was informative. I agree that if in fact the ONLY way to get out of the port is to take their $12 shuttle, that is akin to being held hostage. We had no trouble getting a taxi right at the dock to go to the train station, but that was several years go and may not be possible now.

 

There are SO many threads on CC about ridiculous things, pages and pages about laundry, people bringing buckets and salad spinners on board to do their laundry! that I am happy to read a post about something that could actually affect me.

 

Yes, count me in too...happy to know this info beforehand.

 

Salad spinners? Really? I would love to read that thread. Seriously. LOL.

Edited March 5, 2015 by mickeysgal

[texancruzer]

This is my last post on this thread…..

 

but I would bet $100.00 that it WAS posted in the daily on the ship.

 

and……. I, too, would love to read the salad spinner thread :D

[CathyCruises]

Here you go--happy reading! Salad spinner starts at post 31 http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2167725&highlight=laundry&page=2

 

What kills me about this is that people grouse about a few bucks, okay maybe $50, for laundry, after spending thousands on the cruise, drinks, specialty restaurants, etc.

[SpokaneDan]

I also want to thank OP for posting this thread, and everyone's input and opinions, as we will be at Liverno on NCL Spirit this Aug.. We are a family of 5, paying 60 Euro just to get out of the port would be highly annoying. But now I know ahead of time, and the reasons behind it, I could accept it with a better attitude.:)

Also very much appreciate any update about this port from recent cruisers!

[Hlitner]

If this is the standard in Livorno, then what I would expect NCL (and all other cruise lines) is to be upfront and clear about additional port shuttle charges that will be necessary when not booking a ship tour (or private tour).

 

It shouldn't come as a surprise to the guest when disembarking.

 

Question - do they publish this necessary port shuttle charge as a FYI in the cruise dailies? Port lectures on board, etc?

 

Now on this we do totally agree! But as a general observation, mass market cruise lines have actually "reduced" the amount of info (and help) they give on port options other then the cruise line's own overpriced excursions. Cruise lines make a nice profit on selling excursions (usually done via a franchise shore excursion office) and have no vested interest in helping passenger do things on their own.

 

In fact, it is ever worse then you imagine. We have been on several recent cruises where the cruise line "neglected" to inform passengers of free (or very low cost) shuttle options. For example, the Port of Gexto (for Bilbao, Spain) always operates excellent free shuttle buses between the port and the city of Bilbao. But some cruise lines will not even tell their passengers since they prefer to "sell" overpriced tours and even shuttle service.

 

But there is really no reason to single-out Livorno since the practice is similar at many ports around Europe (and the world).

 

Hank

Edited March 5, 2015 by Hlitner

[Loonbeam]

Did a little research. In this case, the shuttle system/lack of access IS in fact mandated by port operations for most berths (if not all, was not able to confirm that).

 

The shuttle itself is provided by the port with a contractor and no other shuttle service is permitted to operate. The only option for NCL is to either pay the shuttle tickets themselves and roll into cost or eat it, or have passengers pay (they could also have people pay directly, but that would be even more of a mess - to be fair to NCL they are eating the processing costs on the tickets). Also, they have no control over how the shuttle operates as far as loading,unloading, scheduling etc.

 

Licensed taxis are admitted to the port, but as noted can charge a minimum. Was unable to confirm if you could haggle legally.

 

Tour providers are also permitted into the port, they pay an annual fee for that.

 

So in reality, its not NCL (or any other line's) issue other than in how they communicate it. It could be as simple as 'there is no walk-off access at Livorno. A shuttle is available for a fee or ship excursions are available." They may have done this.

 

Unfortunately, there's not really a good option for that area that can handle big ships other than Livorno, and the port knows it...

[Level six]

"It could be as simple as 'there is no walk-off access at Livorno. A shuttle is available for a fee or ship excursions are available."

Thanks Loonbeam

 

That is the only thing I would have wanted from NCL, advance warning. Either while booking or an email after booking.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Level six

[cruisemom42]

"It could be as simple as 'there is no walk-off access at Livorno. A shuttle is available for a fee or ship excursions are available."

Thanks Loonbeam

 

That is the only thing I would have wanted from NCL, advance warning. Either while booking or an email after booking.

 

But this is not the only port where it is an issue. I can't imagine someone at the cruise line is going to be responsible for keeping up with all of the possible situations in every port and letting passengers know at the time of booking!

 

I've visited more than 80 cruise ports over a lifetime of cruising and couldn't possibly tell you all the possible combinations of free shuttle, for-fee shuttle, ship shuttle, port shuttle, taxi, bus, tram, train, boat and even tuk-tuk that I've run into at various ports. Some are free, some aren't.

 

The thing is to do some research before the trip to find out what to expect. The transportation situation in Livorno is frequently discussed (and lamented) on this board.

[Shawnino]

But this is not the only port where it is an issue. I can't imagine someone at the cruise line is going to be responsible for keeping up with all of the possible situations in every port and letting passengers know at the time of booking!

 

 

Seriously? You can't imagine someone at the cruise line knowing how and when their passengers get off the ship?

 

"Huzzah! I've just scheduled our 2000-pax cruise ship on a new itinerary! We're taking our customers to ports X, Y, and Z."

"That's great! Where do we berth and how do our passengers get into town?"

"Oh, who cares? They'll figure it out."

[cruisemom42]

Seriously? You can't imagine someone at the cruise line knowing how and when their passengers get off the ship?

 

"Huzzah! I've just scheduled our 2000-pax cruise ship on a new itinerary! We're taking our customers to ports X, Y, and Z."

"That's great! Where do we berth and how do our passengers get into town?"

"Oh, who cares? They'll figure it out."

 

No, I can't. And I can't imagine them being willing to take responsibility to do so -- they won't even do it for visa requirements, which affect far fewer countries and change far less often than port transportation options.

 

Bottom line -- if you are going to DIY, it's your responsibility to research these things in advance. I would never be confident in a reply given by the cruise line reps. I've gotten more than enough bad info from them through the years, including telling me that the ship would not provide an automatic visa for everyone in Egypt (they did; some people who paid a lot of bucks to get one on their own were NOT happy).

[John Bull]

Seriously? You can't imagine someone at the cruise line knowing how and when their passengers get off the ship?

 

"Huzzah! I've just scheduled our 2000-pax cruise ship on a new itinerary! We're taking our customers to ports X, Y, and Z."

"That's great! Where do we berth and how do our passengers get into town?"

"Oh, who cares? They'll figure it out."

 

I can understand your incredulity.

But it happens.:rolleyes:

 

And the worst part of it is that cruise reps seem to be afraid to say "I don't know".

Instead they tell as gospel what they think is the situation - or worse than that, they'll give false information in order to sell their own products,

And wrong information is worse than no information.

This applies to which ports (not just which berths), to visas, to availability of transfers & whether they cost and the availability of other transportation at the ports.

 

Sorry, but info from cruise lines is unreliable - hence greater reliance on info from folk on CC & other forums who've been there, done that.

 

JB :)

[b_cruise]

THANK YOU OP for posting. Good info to know!! Don't let snarky remarks keep u from posting. There will always be a few that have to be rude. I appreciated your post in fact I'm letting my roll call members know.

[RNRcruisers]

Interesting...we just got off the Jade a month ago, I imagine the same itinerary. We had a pre-arranged private driver in Livorno and had no issues but I don't remember the daily saying anything about a shuttle or a cost. We did have that in several of the other ports at varying costs and it was in our dailies. I did hear quite a bit of complaints about the "nickel and dime-ing" regarding these shuttle fees and in Valencia we paid 12 euros each before we realized there were taxis waiting right outside that would have been more economical for our party of four. But in these other cases we had options besides the shuttle. I agree with the poster that if this is the only option it should be included in the cost.

[Crusin6]

Our private guide picked us up and dropped us off right next to the ship

 

 

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