Deeply Disappointing

[GottaKnowWhen]

I always wondered about that. Good to know.

 

 

Do note that BCBS may not be the norm when it comes to paying (a % of) such bills. Check your own insurance!

[F27TW]

My sixteen year old daughter and my husband were just removed from a Royal Caribbean cruise " Adventure of the Seas" before it ever left port in San Juan, Puerto Rico earlier this month. The reason--- because my daughter has epilepsy and had two small seizures before the ship departed. Plane travel is tiring, changes in sleep and eating schedules often occur and our daughter has had seizures before while on vacation. She has had almost seventy seizures in her short life and we have learnt to cope with them: at school, in the car, in airports, in restaurants, at church, at Special Olympics, at Club Med even while shopping at Ikea. In every instance people have gone out of their way to assist us. Until now. In this instance the doctor on board treated my daughter coldly and uncaringly. She demanded that my husband pay $200.00 so that she could examine our daughter. When my husband declined, she retreated to her office and slammed the door. She did not even inquire about the anti-epileptic medications my daughter was taking or look at her medic-alert bracelet so as to determine her health history. The doctor then told them they had a half an hour to pack and get off the boat making it impossible for our family members to consult one another. The purser backed her up.

Even the five year olds at the elementary school where our daughter does her epilepsy awareness talk every year will tell you: epilepsy is not a disease; it is a neurological disorder that affects almost one in every hundred people. People with epilepsy should be given the same treatment as anyone else. For the doctor, the staff and this cruise line to treat my family like this is unconscionable. Their family reunion turned into a week of hanging around in San Juan until everyone else returned so that they could at least have one full day together. This was a rare opportunity for my husband who lives in B.C. to see his son and grandchildren who live in Ontario. And this is a son who brings himself and at least thirty other friends and family members on this cruise every year and has done so for the last four years. All I can say is that the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines has set the epilepsy awareness cause back one hundred years. If you have epilepsy don't cruise with this company. You never know when they may leave you stranded.

 

 

Hahahaha ... awesome story !!

 

And I always wonder who these trolls are that come on here, start a fake new ID and post a nonsense story like this ...

[Lerin]

Sorry this happened, but in the doctor's defense you state your daughter had 70 seizures in her life. And 2 right there on the ship. That's a pretty high percentage in 1 day out of 16 years.

I can understand the medics concern.

Hope you are able to find a vacation that will better fit your daughter's needs.

[SouthAltaCruisingFamily]

We too have a child with epilepsy and have to ensure that all our ducks are in a row before traveling. Our experiences with the cruise lines when being open and honest up front with pre existing medical condition has been more than receptive.

Once, we were asked for more information so that the medical center could stock extra supplies in case. This was not expected or requested but it sure made mom's life a bit more comforting knowing that the medical staff had our back.

Another time the youth center wanted to know more as well. They were very firm that they would call medical if there was an issue but all his health concerns were noted and they tried to be as accommodating as possible. This was a rarity as he was only 1 of 22 youth on that cruise.

Openness up front allows the staff to be prepared.

[ckfred]

Some observations for this situation and future problems.

 

Besides contacting RC, I would contact your travel agent. Depending on the amount of business that your TA and the agency do with RC, they might have some additional leverage for getting a better resolution.

 

I would find out if fees charged by a ship's doctor can be submitted as a claim with your health insurer or for any trip insurance that you buy for future cruises. Considering that our family physician charges about $160 for an office visit, the $200 that the ship's doctor requested doesn't seem horribly expensive.

 

In the future, I would contact your cruise line to let them know about your child's medical concerns and give them contact information for your physician. The better a doctor can plan for possible treatment of your child, the better.

 

Last, while reading about your experience, I wondered if RC violated the Americans with Disabilities Act. Certainly, if the situation is covered by the act, it would apply with a U.S. cruise line operating a ship out of a U.S. territory. I'm not sure which federal agency would be the right one to contact. But it seems to me that kicking a passenger and family off a ship over a medical concern that, at least according to the family, is not difficult to treat, would at least get the appropriate federal agency to look into the matter.

[Langley Cruisers]

...But it seems to me that kicking a passenger and family off a ship over a medical concern that, at least according to the family, is not difficult to treat, would at least get the appropriate federal agency to look into the matter.

 

It's obvious that a physician felt otherwise, and I'm pretty sure their cruise contract says something to that effect as well.

[tlatrice]

They were on board for a family reunion. Where was the rest of the family when all this was going on? How did they keep them from consulting with the rest of the family? If they were still in port their cell phones should have still been working. Why didn't they call or text someone to meet them at their cabin? Did security escort them back to the cabin to pack? When did the rest of the family find out that they weren't on the ship?

 

This happened before they left the port. Had they even gotten their luggage?

Edited March 24, 2016 by tlatrice

[jagsfan]

Excellent questions. San Juan is US, so their cells would have been available. It sounds as though this family was woefully unprepared to travel. I, too, think I smell a troll.

 

 

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[Big_G]

Do note that BCBS may not be the norm when it comes to paying (a % of) such bills. Check your own insurance!

 

I do have BCBS but you still make a good point.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

They were on board for a family reunion. Where was the rest of the family when all this was going on? How did they keep them from consulting with the rest of the family? If they were still in port their cell phones should have still been working. Why didn't they call or text someone to meet them at their cabin? Did security escort them back to the cabin to pack? When did the rest of the family find out that they weren't on the ship?

 

This happened before they left the port. Had they even gotten their luggage?

I'm struggling with those same questions, along with "what would have happened if this was mid-cruise?".

 

There's a reason people have to sign a medical assessment declaration prior to boarding any cruise (on any ship, any cruise line)...to avoid medical mishaps during a cruise, knowing that there is a risk potential to the passenger as well as all others onboard.

 

While I feel badly that the original poster lost out on their cruise experience, it appears Royal Caribbean did what was right and within their fiduciary responsibility.

[BillOh]

welcome to cruise critic.

 

Very sorry this happened. I would hope that you or your husband had contacted Special Needs before the cruise so that the medical staff would be better prepared.

 

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. People with seizure disorders don't like to advertise their condition for fear of prejudicial treatment just like they reportedly received. As long as they had plenty of the their normal medication they didn't need to inform Royal, it should be part of their first aid training. From what I can tell the girl probably had a form of a partial seizure that is probably routine for the family. I'll bet no first aid was required, but if this happened in the boarding area someone freaked out and got staff attention. That said, an accompanied minor with a known condition and proper medication can't be denied boarding on a bus or airplane so they shouldn't have denied her as well. Now if a person had a first time grandmal seizure with no known cause and no medication, that would be a different story. Grand Mal's are a much more dramatic event and can often require first aid followed by 24 hours or more of rest.

 

I speak from experience on this matter and I would GUESS a different port/doctor might have reacted differently and seizures are a part of any first aid training program. If all happened the way the OP states, I would take this one up the ladder.

Edited March 24, 2016 by BillOh

[BillOh]

Dear OP, I sincerely feel for you. I can only imagine the difficulties of planning and arranging things. I have zero knowledge of epilepsy.

I would only have to dare a guess of what this thread would become if your daughter was allowed on board by RCL medical staff only to have a third seizure 20 miles from shore and she would pass away from complications.

Just saying... Maybe a perspective from RCL's side?

 

I do have more knowledge of epilepsy and this 16 year old girl with a known condition and medication is no more likely to pass way than 90% of the people on the ship. Most partial seizures are routine in the lives of people just trying to carry on and they are likely to not even need first aid. The ignorant people around them are more danger to her than she would be do herself or others. The only thing this family did wrong was to refuse to let the doctor see them, but I am sympathetic to their reasons. If they were first time cruisers they wouldn't have expected being thrown off. I would have allowed it and then fought the charges.

 

To the ignorant fool who mentioned allowing her to swim alone, well that was just an ignorant point.

[The Sunset Glow]

Excellent questions. San Juan is US, so their cells would have been available. It sounds as though this family was woefully unprepared to travel. I, too, think I smell a troll.

 

 

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She said they are from Canada. Cell phones would require a special US plan - Which are usually not cheap. If they wouldn't spend $200 on a doc visit to keep them on the ship I doubt they had a phone plan.

[BillOh]

Dear OP, I sincerely feel for you. I can only imagine the difficulties of planning and arranging things. I have zero knowledge of epilepsy.

I would only have to dare a guess of what this thread would become if your daughter was allowed on board by RCL medical staff only to have a third seizure 20 miles from shore and she would pass away from complications.

Just saying... Maybe a perspective from RCL's side?

 

I do have more knowledge of epilepsy and this 16 year old girl with a known condition and medication is no more likely to pass way than 90% of the people on the ship. Most partial seizures are routine in the lives of people just trying to carry on and they are likely to not even need first aid. The ignorant people around them are more danger to her than she would be do herself or others. The only thing this family did wrong was to refuse to let the doctor see them, but I am sympathetic to their reasons. If they were first time cruisers they wouldn't have expected being thrown off. I would have allowed it and then fought the charges.

 

To the ignorant fool who mentioned allowing her to swim alone, well that was just an ignorant point.

[MommaBear55]

Although we will never know, I do wonder if they had actually gone through the medical exam if they would have been allowed to stay on board. It could have been that refusal and the circumstances around the refusal that caused the ejection.

[Ocean Boy]

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. People with seizure disorders don't like to advertise their condition for fear of prejudicial treatment just like they reportedly received. As long as they had plenty of the their normal medication they didn't need to inform Royal, it should be part of their first aid training. From what I can tell the girl probably had a form of a partial seizure that is probably routine for the family. I'll bet no first aid was required, but if this happened in the boarding area someone freaked out and got staff attention. That said, an accompanied minor with a known condition and proper medication can't be denied boarding on a bus or airplane so they shouldn't have denied her as well. Now if a person had a first time grandmal seizure with no known cause and no medication, that would be a different story. Grand Mal's are a much more dramatic event and can often require first aid followed by 24 hours or more of rest.

 

I speak from experience on this matter and I would GUESS a different port/doctor might have reacted differently and seizures are a part of any first aid training program. If all happened the way the OP states, I would take this one up the ladder.

I can't really tell from reading the OP what type of seizures the child has. And Grand Mal is very old terminology that was replaced with major motor long ago.

[BillOh]

Very emotionally charged ONE HALF of the story. Sorry it happened and it may have been fine for your daughter to cruise. But not allowing the physician to do her job and satisfy herself that it was safe for the child to cruise was poor judgement. The physician has just as much of a duty to the ship and cruise line to be sure it is safe to have the child aboard. Denying her the ability to do her job I suspect pretty much sealed the fate of this vacation. The doctor wanted to be sure it was safe for your child to cruise. Your husband would not allow that to occur. Now you are mad at the cruise line. Sorry, I don't follow your thought process.

 

And to state that an epileptic should be treated like any other person is ridiculous. Why don't you start by telling that story to the DMV of your State. I know what type of documentation I have had to supply to the DMV before they would grant a driver's license to someone with a seizure disorder. People with the disorder are not treated just like everyone else.

 

A lot of your post makes sense, but the DMV stuff is irrelevant, she wasn't asking to drive the boat. They do deserve to be treated like everyone else by others. They know how to deal with the medical matters themselves, with the obvious exception of letting this doctor do their things. We can assume had they done this they would have been allowed to board.

[leisuretraveler223]

Once and gone poster.... Troll? Angry individual who wants to vent? No matter. The OP is unlikely to return.

 

BUT.... The OP made a novice mistake...

 

Check out the screen name!:D

[BillOh]

But they wanted $200 to carry out an examination. So denying the charged examination got them kicked off? Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I'll remain neutral on this one, but I would have probably handled it differently knowing what I know of the condition and probable more knowledge of cruising. It does seem inconsistent with other reports we have heard. I'm guessing that this family had already boarded. People who answer the pre screening form a certain way see the doctor and aren't charged. In this case the doctor PROBABLY wanted to do a more formal exam. Its a shame the OP probably won't come back.

[BillOh]

I just wanted to quickly thank the physicians who weighed in here. Seriously, thank you. I believe it helps us all better understand this situation.

 

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on his post. Not all physician's know any more about seizure disorder than the families of the people afflicted with it. I completely disagree with his statement of letting the cruise line know ahead of time.

[Big_G]

I'll remain neutral on this one, but I would have probably handled it differently knowing what I know of the condition and probable more knowledge of cruising. It does seem inconsistent with other reports we have heard. I'm guessing that this family had already boarded. People who answer the pre screening form a certain way see the doctor and aren't charged. In this case the doctor PROBABLY wanted to do a more formal exam. Its a shame the OP probably won't come back.

 

We don't know what really happened but the OP did say she had two small seizures on the ship before it departed so it didn't sound like a follow-up from the medical form. I wonder if they were told to go to the infirmary because of the seizures or they took her there on their own. Too many unanswered questions to pass judgment.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Big_G

[BillOh]

I think its more along the lines of not allowing the Dr to do her that job got them kicked off than denying the charge.

 

This is probably true. Wish we could hear more

 

There seems to be ways this could have been prevented. Letting special needs know in advance would have went a long ways. Its too bad the OP found Cruise Critic AFTER the fact :(

 

Here, I have no faith that this would have done anything. There are no special needs this family had other than a few minutes of privacy to regroup, granted they may have behaved badly when it happened.

[Ocean Boy]

A lot of your post makes sense, but the DMV stuff is irrelevant, she wasn't asking to drive the boat. They do deserve to be treated like everyone else by others. They know how to deal with the medical matters themselves, with the obvious exception of letting this doctor do their things. We can assume had they done this they would have been allowed to board.

 

I am well aware that the child was not being asked to drive the boat. The OP stated that people with the disorder should be treated like everyone else. My point was that there are situations where they are not.

 

Something occured that brought this situation to the attention of the medical department on the ship. None of us know just what happened. As I stated, I am quite sure it was denying the physician the chance to satisfy herself that it was a safe situation that sealed the fate of this vacation. It was a poor choice by the father.

[tlatrice]

As I stated, I am quite sure it was denying the physician the chance to satisfy herself that it was a safe situation that sealed the fate of this vacation. It was a poor choice by the father.

 

I totally agree with you. I don't get how you decide not to spend $200 to save an $800 - $1000 investment??? :confused:

[BillOh]

If the vacation were that important I think I would have gone with the flow and disputed the charges later if I felt it unfair. The father did not have to pull the money out of his pocket. It goes on the seapass account. And by the way, a member of my family had had to visit the infirmary on a ship before. The charge was no where near $200 and I don't think there was a professional discount due to me being a physician.

 

Here we agree completely. I'm fortunate to never having to use the facilities on a ship. Everything I hear varies wildly, which is probably part of the internet and probably part of being another area where RC's policies are inconsistent.