antsp Posted August 13, 2017 Author #201 Share Posted August 13, 2017 So reading above Carbill was told the wrong information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopsailor Posted August 13, 2017 #202 Share Posted August 13, 2017 People have a right on Princess to tip or not... it's a choice and it is what it is.... I am sure your name calling will not change anything! Well, If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck ...... Nope, no name calling. Just facts. People who take advantage of that policy for their own benefit at the expense of the people who work hard to take care of them know exactly what they are - selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britcruzer15 Posted August 13, 2017 #203 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Well, If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck ...... Nope, no name calling. Just facts. People who take advantage of that policy for their own benefit at the expense of the people who work hard to take care of them know exactly what they are - selfish. pay ALL staff properly, make the fare transparent (no smoke & mirrors), allow reward for excellence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniegb Posted August 13, 2017 #204 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Yes. It's probably to make up for the cruises where folks from the UK remove the tips. Things like that cause disparities among the crew of various ships so the gratuities get shared to help even things out for the crew. If everybody just looked at the gratuities as part of the cost of the cruise then this wouldn't be necessary. Sorry why keep naming UK cruisers?? JME - they are not alone. US cruisers also remove gratuities. I know I have met them 4 adults 40 day cruise sharing an inside cabin and removed gratuities - Californians btw. Just the way I do business, if I leave a gratuity/service charge on a ship, I expect it to be paid to the crew of that ship - no-one else. When I leave a gratuity at a Jamie Oliver restaurant in London, I don't expect the amount to be pooled and paid to some of the staff in Cardiff. Transparency is key here. Annie Edited August 13, 2017 by anniegb Additional Info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian1 Posted August 13, 2017 #205 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Last year I spent time in the Far East where it is standard practice that all hotel rates are quoted £X ++. The ++ represented local taxes and normally 10% service charge. Maybe the time has come to incorporate 10% service charge into the fares. Annie In India,they have aircon tax,even when we ate alfresco they charged it ,lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniegb Posted August 13, 2017 #206 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I don't see why not. I would imagine it to be a Princess fleet wide pool where everything goes in and out of. It isn't as though crew all board a specific ship for a specific time frame where all gratuities from that ship can be divided up amoungst them. Crew are constantly starting contracts, ending contracts and even moving from one ship to another. The only logical way to administer it in my mind would be fleet wide. Why does it matter if part of your gratuity money winds up going to crew on another Princess ship as long as some of that ships gratuity money goes to your cabin steward? AE_Collector It is not logical to administer the gratuity pool fleet wide - way too complicated. From my experience it complicates the administration of payroll. Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reedy8 Posted August 13, 2017 #207 Share Posted August 13, 2017 It is not logical to administer the gratuity pool fleet wide - way too complicated. From my experience it complicates the administration of payroll. Annie It's not complicated, its what's done in many countries of the world. Include the cost of service into the price of the product, and increase the wages of service staff accordingly. So in UK waters, and Australian/NZ waters, they get a higher daily rate that includes gratuities Perhaps they would prefer that, I would much prefer to know exactly how much I was 'talking home' each week/month rather than relying on the wims or generousity of others. Most payroll IT systems can handle that, they would have the ability to set more than one rate per scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniegb Posted August 13, 2017 #208 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) It's not complicated, its what's done in many countries of the world. Include the cost of service into the price of the product, and increase the wages of service staff accordingly. So in UK waters, and Australian/NZ waters, they get a higher daily rate that includes gratuities Perhaps they would prefer that, I would much prefer to know exactly how much I was 'talking home' each week/month rather than relying on the wims or generousity of others. Most payroll IT systems can handle that, they would have the ability to set more than one rate per scale. Part of my working life was spent in developing international payroll and taxation systems for mariners. Do you know for a fact, there is an uplift in pay scales when operating in certain geographical sectors?? Pay scales do vary according to class of ship and seniority. I worked with over 100 different pay scales and our system coped easily. Most mariners salaries are not annualized. So Princess could be asking some employees to 'sacrifice' some earnings in order to top up the earnings of colleagues on another ship?? Well mariners have changed. Annie PS All above is irrelevant to the guest. Princess are asking guests for a service charge for ship x and may be using it to reward employees in establishment y. When I tip on a ship, I expect the gratuity to stay on the ship - just the way I do business. I will still leave my auto-gratuities on and prepay them - makes my cruise bill smaller. Edited August 13, 2017 by anniegb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antsp Posted August 13, 2017 Author #209 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Part of my working life was spent in developing international payroll and taxation systems for mariners. Do you know for a fact, there is an uplift in pay scales when operating in certain geographical sectors?? Pay scales do vary according to class of ship and seniority. I worked with over 100 different pay scales and our system coped easily. Most mariners salaries are not annualized. So Princess could be asking some employees to 'sacrifice' some earnings in order to top up the earnings of colleagues on another ship?? Well mariners have changed. Annie PS All above is irrelevant to the guest. Princess are asking guests for a service charge for ship x and may be using it to reward employees in establishment y. When I tip on a ship, I expect the gratuity to stay on the ship - just the way I do business. I will still leave my auto-gratuities on and prepay them - makes my cruise bill smaller. Your tip is pooled fleetwide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloopsailor Posted August 13, 2017 #210 Share Posted August 13, 2017 pay ALL staff properly, make the fare transparent (no smoke & mirrors), allow reward for excellence. The staff is paid properly IF all passengers pay the gratuities. It is the ones who keep that money for themselves that affect their income, not the cruise line. This is the way it works on most cruise lines. If you don't want to do your share, then be a decent person and just stay off those ships. If you willingly remove the gratuities for your own benefit, you are the problem, not the solution. Besides, if the gratuities were included in the fare the total you would be paying will remain the same as when you pay the gratuities separately. So why all the bitching, moaning and groaning? None of you complainers ever bitch about the port fees and taxes you have to pay, which are also not part of the base fare. No smoke and mirrors here - unless it is from you to rationalize your own excuses for stiffing the crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketMan275 Posted August 13, 2017 #211 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I certainly hope that those who believe the cruise line should do away with the Hotel Service Charge and pay an adequate wage so inform their waitstaff and room stewards, on the first night, that they are withholding their Hotel Service Charges as a sign of their solidarity with the crew and as a protest message to the cruise line. I would also hope that those who do so return to the thread after the crew and relate just how grateful the crew was for their support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaFeFan Posted August 13, 2017 #212 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I certainly hope that those who believe the cruise line should do away with the Hotel Service Charge and pay an adequate wage so inform their waitstaff and room stewards, on the first night, that they are withholding their Hotel Service Charges as a sign of their solidarity with the crew and as a protest message to the cruise line. I would also hope that those who do so return to the thread after the crew and relate just how grateful the crew was for their support. LOL!!!! (y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britcruzer15 Posted August 13, 2017 #213 Share Posted August 13, 2017 The staff is paid properly IF all passengers pay the gratuities. It is the ones who keep that money for themselves that affect their income, not the cruise line. This is the way it works on most cruise lines. If you don't want to do your share, then be a decent person and just stay off those ships. If you willingly remove the gratuities for your own benefit, you are the problem, not the solution. Besides, if the gratuities were included in the fare the total you would be paying will remain the same as when you pay the gratuities separately. So why all the bitching, moaning and groaning? None of you complainers ever bitch about the port fees and taxes you have to pay, which are also not part of the base fare. No smoke and mirrors here - unless it is from you to rationalize your own excuses for stiffing the crew. all other costs are included in the the cruise fare, why not this one, just make it mandatory and not call it something it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colo Cruiser Posted August 13, 2017 #214 Share Posted August 13, 2017 pay ALL staff properly, make the fare transparent (no smoke & mirrors), allow reward for excellence. all other costs are included in the the cruise fare, why not this one, just make it mandatory and not call it something it is not. That's great but currently IT IS NOT, so until it is changed why screw the crew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britcruzer15 Posted August 13, 2017 #215 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I certainly hope that those who believe the cruise line should do away with the Hotel Service Charge and pay an adequate wage so inform their waitstaff and room stewards, on the first night, that they are withholding their Hotel Service Charges as a sign of their solidarity with the crew and as a protest message to the cruise line. I would also hope that those who do so return to the thread after the crew and relate just how grateful the crew was for their support. I spoke to both the front desk staff and the CSM about this during the cruise. and made my position clear. I also spoke to my steward and various other front line staff who all told me about how working on the ship allowed them a much better standard of living than if they stayed at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colo Cruiser Posted August 13, 2017 #216 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Sorry why keep naming UK cruisers?? Maybe because they are the ones that openly brag about it here on CC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anniegb Posted August 13, 2017 #217 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) Maybe because they are the ones that openly brag about it here on CC? Could they be winding you all up? What about the tip removers who never confess? Annie PS we know that cc forum members are only a small percentage of cruisers. Edited August 13, 2017 by anniegb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harz99 Posted August 13, 2017 #218 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Don't Australians pay significantly more for cruise fare? They do, i suspect because the gratuity is built into the fare, in the same way as non package drinks are advertised and charged at a price that includes a gratuity, not XX dollars +18% gratuity as in the US and other places. Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britcruzer15 Posted August 13, 2017 #219 Share Posted August 13, 2017 That's great but currently IT IS NOT, so until it is changed why screw the crew? Do you think it will ever change?, it will need to as in Europe and elsewhere whilst tipping is present in the UK it is not normal especially at the level on Princess and other lines. So it needs to state that we will be charged an amount per day to top up the wages of the staff who are underpaid by their employer, regardless of the quality of service provided. that is not a gratuity/tip, never has been never will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colo Cruiser Posted August 13, 2017 #220 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Could they be winding you all up? What about the tip removers who never confess? Annie You can spin it and deflect anyway you want. It's plain wrong. Punishing the crew is not the way to deal with it. If one can't afford or does not want to pay it then don't cruise or find a different cruise line......it's really that simple. The crew work their tails off and don't deserve to be cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantaFeFan Posted August 13, 2017 #221 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) They do, i suspect because the gratuity is built into the fare...... So what is the difference? You pay the standard fare and gratuities extra, or pay the increased fare with the gratuities included. It all amounts to the same cost in the end. Still can't for the life of me understand why certain cultures can't figure out this tiny, but important, detail. :rolleyes: Do you think it will ever change?, it will need to as in Europe and elsewhere whilst tipping is present in the UK it is not normal especially at the level on Princess and other lines. In case you can't figure it out on your own, when you are on a cruise ship, you aren't in Europe any more. You are in a community that has it's own way of doing things. Leave your "that is not how it is done in my country" BS at home where it belongs. You aren't there, so your cultural idiosyncrasies aren't relevant. So it needs to state that we will be charged an amount per day to top up the wages of the staff who are underpaid by their employer, regardless of the quality of service provided. that is not a gratuity/tip, never has been never will be The crew is not "underpaid" by their employer. The employees sign their contract knowing full well what their income will be from the cruise lines. And they are fine with that, or they would not be voluntarily signing up. The people who are underpaying the employees are the selfish ones who remove the tips so they can keep that money for themselves. Pure and simple. It's those selfish passengers who stiff the crew, not the cruise lines. And no amount of spinning the truth will change that. Edited August 13, 2017 by SantaFeFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colo Cruiser Posted August 13, 2017 #222 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Do you think it will ever change?, it will need to as in Europe and elsewhere whilst tipping is present in the UK it is not normal especially at the level on Princess and other lines. So it needs to state that we will be charged an amount per day to top up the wages of the staff who are underpaid by their employer, regardless of the quality of service provided. that is not a gratuity/tip, never has been never will be Spinning it to fit your agenda. Obviously there is nothing that will change your mind so if you choose to remove the auto gratuity the crew will suffer because of you. I find this way of thinking reprehensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo222 Posted August 13, 2017 #223 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) enh. Edited August 13, 2017 by pablo222 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harz99 Posted August 13, 2017 #224 Share Posted August 13, 2017 So what is the difference? You pay the standard fare and gratuities extra, or pay the increased fare with the gratuities included. It all amounts to the same cost in the end. Still can't for the life of me understand why certain cultures can't figure out this tiny, but important, detail. :rolleyes: In case you can't figure it out on your own, when you are on a cruise ship, you aren't in Europe any more. You are in a community that has it's own way of doing things. Leave your "that is not how it is done in my country" BS at home where it belongs. You aren't there, so your cultural idiosyncrasies aren't relevant. The crew is not "underpaid" by their employer. The employees sign their contract knowing full well what their income will be from the cruise lines. And they are fine with that, or they would not be voluntarily signing up. The people who are underpaying the employees are the selfish ones who remove the tips so they can keep that money for themselves. Pure and simple. It's those selfish passengers who stiff the crew, not the cruise lines. And no amount of spinning the truth will change that. Charming turn of phrase you have! Anyway, you ask what the difference is, very simple really, the upfront cost is advertised and paid, no concealed extras for the unwary or inexperienced traveller. It's called transparency... Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilot Posted August 13, 2017 #225 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I spoke to both the front desk staff and the CSM about this during the cruise. and made my position clear. I also spoke to my steward and various other front line staff who all told me about how working on the ship allowed them a much better standard of living than if they stayed at home. Did you also tell them that since "working on the ship allowed them a much better standard of living than if they stayed at home " that there was no need for you to pay the suggested gratuities so you could save some money on your vacation? Did they thank you for making your "position clear"? Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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