BE AWARE - new UA Basic Economy Fares

[pcur]

I couldn't agree more. Aisles across from each other are the closest we sit any more because neither of us wants the window seat in any class of service unless it's a 1-2-1 configuration. We will sit on opposite sides of the plane if it means being more comfortable, and will do it on longer flights as well. On flights with GOGO, we can text each other for free (T Mobile) if we really have to communicate, lol.

 

HA! It doesn't really matter if I sit next to my husband on a plane or not. He zones out because he dislikes flying, so I'm basically sitting by myself. I also am ALWAYS in the middle seat, so I've gotten used to that.

 

I saw a good article about this new United Basic Economy today. Seats are automatically assigned by their system, last boarding group (group 5), and what's mentioned above about carry-on.

 

I actually hope American offers this type of fare. They are the only airline that flies out of our dinky airport and gets us to our son, dil, and grandbaby without having to rent a car, drive to LAX, drop off the car, etc., etc. I'd gladly put up with the extra inconvenience if I get to see them more often!

[Mr. Click]

After mulling this whole bad idea over for a while now the question in my mind is what will these new basic economy fares look like? Will we see something lower that today's cheaper fares or will those become tomorrow's basic economy fare? Right now I can find EWR to LAS as low at $149 OW with choosing my seat assignments and getting at least one free bag for each of us and boarding group 2. Sooooo, after January is that $149 going to buy me less? If it is I need to book those last 3 flights I know I have to make in 2017. Or I could just wait and go with Southwest for those...

[zdcatc12]

After mulling this whole bad idea over for a while now the question in my mind is what will these new basic economy fares look like? Will we see something lower that today's cheaper fares or will those become tomorrow's basic economy fare? Right now I can find EWR to LAS as low at $149 OW with choosing my seat assignments and getting at least one free bag for each of us and boarding group 2. Sooooo, after January is that $149 going to buy me less? If it is I need to book those last 3 flights I know I have to make in 2017. Or I could just wait and go with Southwest for those...

 

I believe the speculation is they will only be offered on routes matching Allegiant, Spirit and Frontier and will match their fare on said route.

[Mr. Click]

The problem with thinking about routes flown by Allegiant and Frontier is those airlines fly out of airports that UA does not even service in the Northeast. Frontier uses Trenton NJ and Allegiant flys out of ABE so there is no real comparison for me if I wanted to go that route. I guess we will have wait for Jan 1 and see what happens then. The travel I am looking at now is for July/August and then Oct or Nov. I think I am glad everything else for next year is already booked.

[bUU]

Even that would not be definitive, Mr. Click:

Delta introduced ‘basic economy’ fares to compete against Spirit Airlines where Spirit is offering super low fares on non-stop routes Delta is flying. They introduced fares that stripped out things like advance seat assignments and used those fares when matching Spirit’s prices. Customers could spend more to get more, or spend less and get something akin to Spirit but still with better legroom and free carry on bags.

 

United and American will follow suit this year while Delta spreads use of the fares beyond routes where they compete with ultra low cost carriers and into international markets even.

 

[Mr. Click]

My mind keeps going back to Peanuts Fares and TED... neither one worked too well. Peanuts Fares were such disaster that when Gordon Bethune took over he told them to not even serve peanuts on flights. The taste, the image was that bad. If I was a stock holder I would be asking "why go back there?" but I am a customer so I will wait and see and then vote with my feet and wallet.

[bUU]

Consider that Peanuts Fares and TED were perhaps far too far ahead of their time.

[pinotlover]

Those E- fares will be optional, people. Other options will be available on the same plane. I doubt that I would ever take the E- fare and the t&c that goes with it. Doesn't mean I'll stop flying UA!

[purduemom1]

If you are responding to me, I thought I was pretty clear about non-revs not being ticketed as the late arrival showed up.

 

I have seen non-revs ticketed and a late arrival refused boarding after that only once in my lifetime. I was very early to my gate in a small airport with no lounge and watched it go down. They had cleared standbys (three non-revs) and we're ready to close the door as he arrived. They could have deplaned a non-rev for him, but it wasn't going to happen, that gate agent had been complaining for the previous 30 minutes, and there was no way she was doing the extra work to remove a non-rev and let him on. She sent him to passenger services with a sneer on her face. (HPN about five years ago)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

If this passenger was denied boarding without a good reason then I hope that he complained to the right person. Most stand bys appreciate their flight benefits and realize that the paying passenger comes first-after all without them, stand bys would not have these benefits. Some GA's are not airline employees and don't always know how to handle things. I had one who, nice as she was, had no idea how to clear non revs, was asking me (I don't know) and finally a ramper came up and showed her. This was a smaller airport also and she was not an airline employee.

[CantanaLobo]

I believe the speculation is they will only be offered on routes matching Allegiant, Spirit and Frontier and will match their fare on said route.

I've read speculation that these will appear on all routes. If the current low fare in December is, say, $129, come January, that low fare will still be $129, it's just now it will have the E- restrictions. For $10-$20 more, you'll be able to get a ticket with the same fare rules (e.g. allows seat selection) as was available in December. A nice stealth price increase - pay more to get the same thing. The folks United cares about (high value flyers) will avoid E- like the plague, so no harm there. The folks that shop for the cheapest fare well, why would United care if they screwed themselves buying these?

 

My $0.02 - United will start offering these on routes it competes with the low-cost carriers. Then United will notice that it actually increases profits on these routes, and E- will spread to all routes.

 

OTOH, my dog ate my crystal ball, so I could be wrong. We'll have to wait for January.

 

It'll be fun if any of the cruise air departments starts handing these turkeys out (I've no idea if United will allow or forbid it). Given the opacity of cruise air, folks won't know until they get to the airport. I see future thread material: "United wouldn't let me take my carryon - they made me check it and pay for the privilege. Everyone else got on the plane before me. I couldn't sit next to my wife. I had to sit in a middle back by the toilet. I'll never fly United again. But I saved a bunch with cruise air."

[pinotlover]

These fares will not appear on all routes, imo. UAL flies a lot of routes that they control./dominate. Those flights are full and often overbooked. They have no financial motivation in offering an E- ticket on those flights and take in less revenue than charging a higher fare. They'll do it only where they must to compete and fill the plane. Otherwise, don't expect it.

[bUU]

These fares will not appear on all routes, imo. UAL flies a lot of routes that they control./dominate. Those flights are full and often overbooked. They have no financial motivation in offering an E- ticket on those flights and take in less revenue than charging a higher fare. They'll do it only where they must to compete and fill the plane. Otherwise, don't expect it.

How do you explain what Delta is doing, then?

[jagoffee]

How do you explain what Delta is doing, then?

Are you suggesting that Delta offers their basic Economy on all flights?

[bUU]

I'm not suggesting it... Airline industry experts are.

 

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2016/05/24/truth-basic-economy-airlines-arent-creating-class-economy/

 

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2016/04/15/delta-exaggerating-basic-economy-revenue-gains-hurting-best-customers/

Edited November 30, 2016 by bicker

[TruckerDave]

I'm not suggesting it... Airline industry experts are.

 

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2016/05/24/truth-basic-economy-airlines-arent-creating-class-economy/

 

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2016/04/15/delta-exaggerating-basic-economy-revenue-gains-hurting-best-customers/

 

Delta does NOT have them on every flight. I have been pricing and planning my travel for next year and have not even seen one of the basic fares on Delta on any of the destinations I am looking at. (Kona, Honolulu, San Diego, Detroit, London are a few of the places I have been pricing and not one basic fare has appeared :rolleyes: )

[bUU]

Read what was written. Delta is already expanding the fares beyond the flights that directly compete with Spirit Airlines. There is every reason to think that they will continue spreading these fares across their entire schedule. Why shouldn't they? If they raise more profit that's what they are obligated to do.

[waterbug123]

Are you suggesting that Delta offers their basic Economy on all flights?

 

I'm not suggesting it... Airline industry experts are.

 

 

Nope. Basic E fares are NOT available on all routes. Will they be one day? Who knows, but I certainly hope so! Something needs to be done about the ridiculous amount of crap that people try to carry on to an airplane. But for now, Detla E fares are not available on all routes. You don't need to rely on what an industry expert says; just go to delta.com and check for yourself. :)

[bUU]

You don't need to rely on what an industry expert says; just go to delta.com and check for yourself. :)

You actually do need to rely on what experts are telling you. Remember: Many of us are planning cruises that are over a year away, and many of us are participating here because we will be going on cruises in 2019, 2020, and perhaps for dozens of years to come after that. The overall trends in the industry matter.

 

Moreover, what's offering right this minute does not factor in the impact (on Delta) of what United is doing. If United does something, and it "takes" (i.e., travelers partake of their basic economy fares enough to justify the marketing expense), then it is irrational to believe that American and Delta will not follow that lead.

[Host Mike]

Trust me - Delta does not do this on all flights. I find myself sitting on a Delta flight 2-4 times a week. It's only highly competitive routes like Orlando and Vegas for example.

[bUU]

Time will tell. I'm curious to see how it goes... I'm going to put a reminder in my calendar to revisit this thread this time next year and see if these industry experts were correct.

[waterbug123]

You actually do need to rely on what experts are telling you. Remember: Many of us are planning cruises that are over a year away, and many of us are participating here because we will be going on cruises in 2019, 2020, and perhaps for dozens of years to come after that. The overall trends in the industry matter.

 

Moreover, what's offering right this minute does not factor in the impact (on Delta) of what United is doing. If United does something, and it "takes" (i.e., travelers partake of their basic economy fares enough to justify the marketing expense), then it is irrational to believe that American and Delta will not follow that lead.

 

Someone implied that these E fares were being offered on all DL routes now, and pointed to an industry expert's article as proof. Fact: E fares are NOT being offered on all DL routes now and that can be checked easily by going to Delta.com and doing a dummy booking or too. You don't need an expert to tell you what is or is not actually happening right now.

 

As for what happens in the future, no one knows, not even industry experts. What IS known though, is that airline fares are a product of supply and demand. Because of that, certain routes and dates warrant higher fares and some warrant lower fares. If E fares (or United's equivalent, whatever they're calling them) become more widespread, it's because more passengers want them, i.e. they've sold well thus far and the airline has made the smart business decision to expand them.

 

There's no way you'll be able to look at a fare for a particular route and date in 2020, and then look back and see that it was $30 cheaper in 2017 and think "aha, I knew it, it's because they expanded E fares!" There are a zillion other things that could affect airfare for your cruises in 2019 and 2020.

 

As for Delta following United's lead, again- United is actually following something Delta already started. ;)

[bUU]

Someone implied that these E fares were being offered on all DL routes now

I didn't see anyone say that. I suspect it was just something easier for someone to argue against than what people actually are saying in the thread.

 

What IS known though, is that airline fares are a product of supply and demand.

And the American consumer is nothing if not consistent in motivating service providers to rush to the bottom.

 

As for Delta following United's lead, again- United is actually following something Delta already started. ;)

In a way it was one-upsmanship eh? Just wait to see what American does. And then of course they all match each others degradations. Just look at how average seat pitch has steadily decreased, as each airline sees other airlines get away with taking away another half inch.

[jagoffee]

I didn't see anyone say that. I suspect it was just something easier for someone to argue against than what people actually are saying in the thread.

 

 

Someone posted this: "These fares will not appear on all routes, imo."

 

And you said "how do you explain what Delta is doing".

 

I and maybe others thought you were suggesting Delta using the fare category on all flights which you have since qualified.

 

I do not fly on Spirit and I will not take advantage of this new flight category, but I suspect I will be paying more what I get today.

[bUU]

I think you meant to say at the end there that you expect that in the future you'll be paying more for what you're getting today. I agree. That's the clear direction - in all things but especially this: To open up a lower level of service that costs the provider less to offer, "sharing" the savings with the consumer for a while, and then taking away the "discount".

[jagoffee]

I think you meant to say at the end there that you expect that in the future you'll be paying more for what you're getting today. I agree. That's the clear direction - in all things but especially this: To open up a lower level of service that costs the provider less to offer, "sharing" the savings with the consumer for a while, and then taking away the "discount".

 

You are correct I meant to say in the future I expect to be playing more for what I am getting today.

 

The airlines will use the no frills Economy to compete with Spirit and Frontier. I am not sure how they will compete with Southwest with this fare category Because the Southwest offers more than no new no frills Economy.

They are doing this so they can create perceived value for what we are getting today.

I agree that the average price per ticket will increase even with the introduction of the no frills Economy Class.