Viking China

[alexva]

We just returned from the Imperial Jewels, Beijing to Shanghai, tour with an extension in Hong Kong, and I must say that the trip did not live up to the generally glowing reviews found here. The fact that virtually everyone in our group came down with an upper respiratory problem--coughing, sore throat, congestion--didn't help, but the main problem was that Viking should never have scheduled a tour to begin in Beijing on the National Holiday (the first week of October). The crowds were indescribable. We must have seen about 1 billion of the 1.3 billion Chinese in two days. And the crowd problem was far more than aesthetic. Because of the crowds, the resulting traffic jams and the generally slow pace of movement, we were unable to see anything inside either the Summer Palace of the Forbidden City and spent less time elsewhere than we should have. One participant called our walk through the Forbidden City the Bataan Death March--straight ahead, no stopping, no looking around, no entering buildings. We saw none of the "treasures" described so glowingly in the Viking brochures. The Great Wall was nearly unwalkable. The long rides stopped in traffic in buses were nearly intolerable. There was no free time at all in Beijing. Things improved some after Beijing, but again Viking let us down. The food on the river cruise was often inedible, especially what was called meat and dessert (although the breakfast buffets were good). The ice cream tasted and smelled like hand cream. We have been on cruises with Radisson, Princess, Royal Caribbean and Celebrity, and this food was far, far worse than the worst they ever served. Some of the problem no doubt has to do with the location, but there such things as freezers. In addition, and more importantly because we didn't travel for the food, the schduling was ludicrous even apart from the holiday. On the Guilin/Hong Kong extension, we arrived at our hotel in Guilin at about 9:30 PM and were required to have our bags out by 7:30 the next morning, our bodies on the bus for the Li River Cruise by 8:30, then back on a plane late that afternoon. Most of us never got to see what we understand is a charming city. And the 4-hour river cruise was about two hours too long. Most of the 100 or so passengers on the boat had their heads down on the tables by the end, and many were sleeping. The next night was worse, with a 10:30 PM arrival at the Hong Kong hotel, followed by a morning excursion. I really believe that the exhaustion caused by the crowds and poorly timed flights, along with the resulting stress, contributed to the health issues. Nearly all of the passengers on the trip were in their sixties, with some older. While only a few succumbed to the rigors of the trip, most were simply pushed too hard by the poorly planned logistics. We don't regret having done it, because China is a marvelous place that overcame the negatives, and our guide (Jason) was wonderful even though dealt a bad hand. But Viking could have made the experience so much better, and in this respect it let us down. Lest anyone think that these views are in any way unique, many of those in our group felt even more strongly and tossed about such phrases as "we'll demand a refund" and "class action," although I'm confident neither will come to fruition.

[bobka]

We are leaving tomorrow for San Francisco and Wednesday for Hong Kong to take the Imperial Jewels trip with Hong Kong extension, the direction is Shanghai to Beijing. We have friends who took the same tour in July and other friends who took it last year, and they all thoroughly loved the trip. As a result, the excitement was building. So, we find the above post quite discouraging. I guess we will just have to take cereal bars and a lot of meds with us and hope for the best.

[Off2China]

Bob - We just got back (home on 10/9) from the Shanghai-Beijing Imperial Jewels and were also in China during the national holiday. We arrived in Beijing the day after the holiday ended (everyone was back at work, in school, etc.) and didn't have any problems at any of the sites. Everything was great. I can imagine what it must have been like for Alexva, though, and I'm sorry they had such a bad experience.

 

As for the food on the Century Sky--no problems whatsoever. Health issues: a few people in our group experienced some sort of intestinal problem--seemed to last about 24 hours. My husband and I have both had upper respiratory issues for the past week; he also had strep throat. Mine was mostly sinus-related. Both feeling much better now. (BTW, we didn't have any symptoms of anything until the day we left Beijing, so it didn't interfere with our trip at all.)

 

Please don't be too discouraged--I think you'll have a great time. But, yes, do take along your Immodium, etc.

 

Debra

[bobka]

Thanks, Debra. That helps....

[gr8lakes]

Bobka: We will be interested to hear how your trip goes. If you get a chance when you get back, can you please let us know your thoughts. We are on the Cultural Jewels trip on November 19. This is the last trip of the year. We are very excited. But,frankly, we have been concerned that Viking is easing its standards a bit, and we're worried that, as the last cruise of the year, perhaps we'll have "leftovers?" We called Viking this week and the cruise is totally wide open. Has anyone been on this trip when it was not fully booked? Was the service/food affected by there being less people? We can see an advantage in the excursions, etc with not having so many folks on the tours, but we're a bit worried about lower standards.

Also, as far as all these respiratory problems, do you think they are from people who were already sick and came anyway? Was it the air quality? Just wondering. We have plenty of meds just in case.

We don't cruise for the food, we travel for the experience and expect to have a wonderful time. Just wondering if the lack of bookings will impact the trip in any way. Thoughts from anyone are much appreciated.

[alexva]

My non-expert opinion on the source of the upper respiratory problems experienced by more than half of our group is that we picked up a host of viruses, etc., on our long airplane flights to China, only to face heavy pollution that irritated the mucous membranes in our noses and throats, thus giving the bad guys a safe landing place. In other words, our natural immune systems were compromised by the bad air in Beijing. That many people couldn't have been sick with the same ailment when they began their journeys. By the way, I have no doubt that had we started our trip a week later, it would have been much beter. The problem is that Viking failed to either skip the Natoinal Holiday in Beijing or warn customers that this particular trip woudl be compromised by the enormous crowds. It was so bad that a number of people felt that they were literally in danger at the Great Wall.

[bobka]

gr8lakes, I'll be glad to report after the trip. We'll be home late November 9, so expect something within a few days after that. BTW, our friends who went on the trip in July said the ship was only about 1/3 full, and the quality did not suffer. They said everything was spotless but that the food was just Ok. They suggested skipping meat and ordering fish on the ship. Their guide, Simon, was fantastic. One of their party of eight had respiratory problems after the trip.

[Off2China]

Alexva - I agree with you that Viking should not start a tour in Beijing during the National Holiday. I'm not sure that you could have been prepared for what you experienced even if they had warned you beforehand. "Enormous crowds" is putting it mildly, I think. It doesn't conjure up the pushing, shoving mass of humanity that you encountered. The only thing that comes to my mind to compare it to is cattle being herded into a corral--all you can see is heads and bodies.

 

We were very fortunate to have started in Shanghai. We were actually aboard the Century Sky during most of the holiday. The only crowd we experienced was at the Three Gorges Dam, but it was nothing like what you had in Beijing.

 

Also agree that the long flights had a lot to do with the respiratory problems.

[no fuss travel]

gr8lakes We were on the ship in July and there was only 100 passengers on the ship. The food was not compromised at all. There were a few meals that did not appeal, but they bent over backwards to find something else that I would eat instead. We lucked out on the air quality in Beijing because it had rained 5 days in a row prior to our arrival, but at the Three Gorges Dam we did notice the pollution. They call it fog, not pollution. As far as bugs go, all it takes is one person to come on the trip with a bug and in close quarters it spreads like wildfire. I was on a RCL, a couple of people came on with a bug and the majority of the ship was sick by the end of the cruise. If you take the proper precautions you will be fine. Enjoy your trip and remember when you travel as the old saying states "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." One has to willing to try new things to travel and have a good time. There were a few food items that I will admit, I tried and would never eat again, but then at least I tried it. It was an experience.

[moontide]

just a few notes about the trip, as I'm still in Beijing and have a few hours before the flight. In my opinion the tour that starts in Shanghai is better, because the best is last. I wasn't impressed with Viking's itinerary in Shanghai - they force you to spend hours in the silk carpet factory, then only 1 hour in the museum, where you need at least 2 - it's fabulous! When you fly from Xian to Beijing, don't eat on the plane because once you get to the Westin, you'll have the most delicious buffet. Then the next night, don't go to the 2 star restaurant as it's really grungy. :(

[no fuss travel]

just a few notes about the trip, as I'm still in Beijing and have a few hours before the flight. In my opinion the tour that starts in Shanghai is better, because the best is last. I wasn't impressed with Viking's itinerary in Shanghai - they force you to spend hours in the silk carpet factory, then only 1 hour in the museum, where you need at least 2 - it's fabulous! When you fly from Xian to Beijing, don't eat on the plane because once you get to the Westin, you'll have the most delicious buffet. Then the next night, don't go to the 2 star restaurant as it's really grungy. :(

 

moontide What a shame they made you go to silk carpet factory in Shanghai. The Beijing-Shanghai trip, we did the silk carpet factory in Beijing and did not do it in Shanghai. Was the 2 star restaurant the one with the Beijing opera? You are correct about that buffet though. Yum. I still remember it, especially the seafood. Please tell us about your trip when you get home.

[gr8lakes]

Thank you all for the information on the cruise when not full. We think it will be great.

As for the respiratory illness and plane flight, I understand, as I used to get sinus infections regularly with long flights. One tip I got - we used a travel doctor before our trip last year to Southeast Asia. We got our vaccines, etc from him and talked about staying well on the trip. He suggested that for every plane flight , right before takeoff and right before landing, we use regular (not extended strength) Neosynephrine (SP?) in each nostril. We have done this on all our travels, and so far, I have not had a sinus infection on any trip. Might help others, check with your doctor.

 

I have a question about the silk factory and other tours. If you don't go, or don't go to dinner, do you miss the rest of the excursion? For example I think we'd like to see the museum, but do we have to go to the silk factory because it is the same excursion? Do they allow you to skip the 2 star dinner but see the opera? How flexible is it?

 

Really appreciate all the information. Looking forward to your trip reviews when you have time. Thanks!

[dpump]

All the excursions are packed into one trip. We found it rather difficult to say we didn't want to go somewhere with the group and stay behind. Our guide always acted like we had to go. Now that Fall and the colder weather is setting in, am kicking myself that I didn't purchase a silk comforter when in China. Oh well, live and learn. Don't worry about the boats not being full. Ours wasn't when we went in June and the tables were spread out more in the dining room (so alot more room and attention from the staff) and if you were unhappy with your cabin, some were available to switch to. As far as eating fish, some folks in our group had some, the skin was left on and bones in. For the folks who had a terrible time, not everyone is happy all the time and overall, we had a great time. I think Viking has a wonderful product, have been on 2 of their cruises and am hoping to go again in 2010 (depending on the economy). Comparing Viking to a large cruise ship is like comparing apples to oranges. I often wonder why folks expect 'fine dining' on a cruise of any kind. Those cooks/chefs are cooking for masses of people, it isn't a cook to order restaurant. I can only imagine how crowded Bejing was in October on their holiday, the lack of personal space and masses of people bothered me when I went on my trip, I just learned to go w/the flow. I wasn't in my home country and did as the natives (or Chinese in this case) did. Was fortunate on all the flights I didn't get sick, I usually do. I got some AIR ( I think that's the name of it) nasal spray and used that. I took some Emergen-C packets (Vit C basically) and drank that everyday and my vitamins and a pepto bismol. I also washed my hands all the time. For those of you leaving anytime soon, be sure and get your flu shot!!!!

[Lucky Granny]

In defense of Viking here, I feel like I need to repeat something noted earlier on this thread: We don't know how much of what Viking does is controlled by the Chinese Government. I am sure those "shopping" stops are required - why else would a silk embroidery factory have a large restaurant on the premises? It has been mentioned that lots of the various tours available (not just Viking) go to the same shopping locations that Viking does - I am sure it is required. I am also sure better food would be available at restaurants not chosen by the government.

 

We also enjoyed having the Century Sky only about 1/3 full. There was always empty space somewhere on the boat, room at the railing, etc. This does not change the excursions much, however, as we still toured in bus-load-size groups of 30 or so.

 

The respiratory problems being mentioned now sound like the ones posted in previous years. I am appreciating more and more how lucky we were to have booked our trip right before the Olympics when the air was cleaner.

 

The food throughout our trip seemed to have been designed to prevent overeating. I did not gain any weight on the trip. However, being from south Louisiana makes it difficult to find food we really like anywhere we travel. Yes, the large cruise ships put more emphasis on the food, but eating is one of the main activities on those trips.

 

For those who have not yet booked, I would recommend the Shanghai to Beijing itinerary. The Shanghai tour is not as strenous so you can recover from your flight over and then get on the boat after two days. Then you can rest up on the boat before the last four non-stop days in Xian and Beijing. Doing those four days first would have been rough. And I agree that this trip includes a lot of "hurry up and wait" - but it was well worth the experience.

 

Have a good trip

Mary Frances

[humidsue]

My friend and I are going on the Nov 6th Shanghai to Beijing (Viking Sky) tour.

Her doctor recommended that she take typhoid pills before the trip.

Did any of you get those? Other vaccinations ?

I got the flu shot , have antibiotics and all over-the counter meds.

Thanks,

Humidsue

[gr8lakes]

As far as vaccinations, we traveled to SE Asia (Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand) last year and took the typhoid pills vaccine then. Also had the Hep B and C combination shots (3 shots given 1, then 1 month later and 6 months). We just had our flu shot for this year last week. I'd follow whatever your doctor suggests.

Thanks for all the input on the tours everyone. We will go with the flow and enjoy being in another culture. We're going to Hong Kong on our own first for 4 days so we hope to be over the jetlag when we fly to Shanghai the day before we meet Viking. Have one day on our own there so hope to make the most of it before the tour.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's reports. Safe travels to all.

[jcrandle]

We just returned from the Imperial Jewels, Beijing to Shanghai, tour with an extension in Hong Kong, and I must say that the trip did not live up to the generally glowing reviews found here. The fact that virtually everyone in our group came down with an upper respiratory problem--coughing, sore throat, congestion--didn't help, but the main problem was that Viking should never have scheduled a tour to begin in Beijing on the National Holiday (the first week of October). The crowds were indescribable. We must have seen about 1 billion of the 1.3 billion Chinese in two days. And the crowd problem was far more than aesthetic. Because of the crowds, the resulting traffic jams and the generally slow pace of movement, we were unable to see anything inside either the Summer Palace of the Forbidden City and spent less time elsewhere than we should have. One participant called our walk through the Forbidden City the Bataan Death March--straight ahead, no stopping, no looking around, no entering buildings. We saw none of the "treasures" described so glowingly in the Viking brochures. The Great Wall was nearly unwalkable. The long rides stopped in traffic in buses were nearly intolerable. There was no free time at all in Beijing. Things improved some after Beijing, but again Viking let us down. The food on the river cruise was often inedible, especially what was called meat and dessert (although the breakfast buffets were good). The ice cream tasted and smelled like hand cream. We have been on cruises with Radisson, Princess, Royal Caribbean and Celebrity, and this food was far, far worse than the worst they ever served. Some of the problem no doubt has to do with the location, but there such things as freezers. In addition, and more importantly because we didn't travel for the food, the schduling was ludicrous even apart from the holiday. On the Guilin/Hong Kong extension, we arrived at our hotel in Guilin at about 9:30 PM and were required to have our bags out by 7:30 the next morning, our bodies on the bus for the Li River Cruise by 8:30, then back on a plane late that afternoon. Most of us never got to see what we understand is a charming city. And the 4-hour river cruise was about two hours too long. Most of the 100 or so passengers on the boat had their heads down on the tables by the end, and many were sleeping. The next night was worse, with a 10:30 PM arrival at the Hong Kong hotel, followed by a morning excursion. I really believe that the exhaustion caused by the crowds and poorly timed flights, along with the resulting stress, contributed to the health issues. Nearly all of the passengers on the trip were in their sixties, with some older. While only a few succumbed to the rigors of the trip, most were simply pushed too hard by the poorly planned logistics. We don't regret having done it, because China is a marvelous place that overcame the negatives, and our guide (Jason) was wonderful even though dealt a bad hand. But Viking could have made the experience so much better, and in this respect it let us down. Lest anyone think that these views are in any way unique, many of those in our group felt even more strongly and tossed about such phrases as "we'll demand a refund" and "class action," although I'm confident neither will come to fruition.

I'm glad you enjoyed Jason. He was our guide a year ago on the last cruise of 2007. It takes a special temperament to deal with all of the issues that come up, and he seemed to handle them well. We were lucky enough to have less than 100 cruisers on the ship, but we still had enough curve balls thrown by weather, circumstances, etc. to challenge his patience.

 

I must say, though, that I have never cruised with 100 fellow travelers that were so easy to get along with. As any of you who have traveled China know, the infrastructure is not friendly to the mobility challenged. There was never a time when we encountered steps, or a high threshold (omnipresent in China because of their superstition that a low threshold will allow the fortune or "luck" to escape from the house) that those more able bodied would assist with the wrestling of a wheelchair over an impediment. It restored my faith in the goodness of humanity.

[FeeFeeCat]

Hello,

 

I'm leaving this coming Sunday for the Imperial Jewels Shanghai to Beijing itinerary and have two questions that may have been covered in this thread. I've read so much that it's difficult to remember all the great advice and recommendations. My apologies if this has already been covered elsewhere.

 

Regarding adapters, I've purchased power plug adapters. Is that all that is needed to use a device like a battery charger?

 

Regarding liquids in carry-on baggage, I know liquids must be placed in checked baggage on all intra-China flights but what about the flights to and from China?

 

Thanks much.

 

Mary:)

[FeeFeeCat]

Hello,

 

I'm leaving this coming Sunday for the Imperial Jewels Shanghai to Beijing itinerary and have two questions that may have been covered in this thread. I've read so much that it's difficult to remember all the great advice and recommendations. My apologies if this has already been covered elsewhere.

 

Regarding adapters, I've purchased power plug adapters. Is that all that is needed to use a device like a battery charger?

 

Regarding liquids in carry-on baggage, I know liquids must be placed in checked baggage on all intra-China flights but what about the flights to and from China?

 

Thanks much.

 

Mary:)

[no fuss travel]

Mary

 

 

Converters - There is one plug on the ship that you do not need a converter for, but if you have the converters you will have no problems elsewhere.

Liquids from North America are fine and you can bring them in your hand luggage following the current rules. When we flew from Hong Kong to Beijing, we had no problems. The same should apply for flying into Shanghai.

 

 

Enjoy your trip. It is a fascinating country to visit.

[d&j-onboard]

On the Century Sky (and assume the sister Sun) the only 115 volt receptical was disabled and signed as such. The bathroom power also goes out when you remove key card from the "occupied" sensor. Your can use any card in this sensor....like the one we forgot to return to the Bejing Westin!! The best solution is to use chargers that are labeled 100/200 volts. The receptical on the desk will accept US plugs at 220 volts.

[d&j-onboard]

Correction: use chargers that are labeled 120/240 volts

[moontide]

I returned yesterday from the Shanghai to Beijing tour. Didn't get sick at all until yesterday - I think it was due to the stress of going to catch our Air Canada flight at 4:30, waiting around for 5 hours until they decided the engine hydraulics could not be fixed that night, so they shuffled us to a 2* Holiday Inn, and put us on a flight then next day - so we were extra tired and I finally got a sore throat. People were coughing the whole trip - I think for myself vitamin C helped, and not overtaxing myself. When even our tour guide got sick on the last day of the tour, after spending hours walking at the T-Square and Summer Palace, I decided to opt out of the Peking duck dinner and Opera in order to have a relaxing bath and enjoy the amazing buffet at the Westin. The worst dinner I experienced was the second night in Beijing, but I must admit no one got sick even though it was sub-standard.

I don't think the government has much to do with factory stops - it's like when on cruise ship excursions - the cruise company tells you to shop in the "safe" stores that they recommend, but it's really about them getting a commission. My tour guide actually admitted that he also gets points for the amount of purchases at these places, like the silk embroidery factory, silk carpet factory, jade factory - what a waste of time these places were!! My best shopping was when I slipped aside and quickly cruised through shops, then raced to catch up. The Shanghai Museum was the worst shame to have such little time there, I heard the Costumes and Masks on the 4th floor was the best but few got that far - 4 floors in 1 hour? They had a really nice shop there but no time, Forbidden City had great shops, as did Summer Palace. I did manage to buy my silk quilts at the wall, got 35% off and was happy.

I really enjoyed the food on the ship - ate lots of seafood, salads, great soups, nice small portions. I rank them better than cruise lines -NCL (the worst in my mind) Celebrity, Princess, Carnival, Holland America, and about the same as Cunard. The ship - I hated the smell when I boarded - got them to move me up a floor to the fourth where it didn't smell as bad. One man described it as a combination of mold and deisel. I loved the front of the 4th where my room was, there was an observation lounge there that was comfy with a great view. The people in the room next to us had booked a suite in the back and were upset because the vibration took the pictures off the wall - so they were downgraded to a room at the front, with no compensation. I think Viking's rates are rediculous - all the rear rooms are noisier and have vibration, then you pay $300 or so more for a centre room on the same floor, and less in the front. Doesn't make sense to me, as the front is the best, and the rear is the worst. Thanks to this forum, I changed my rear room to the front before I left.

China is a very interesting place with lots of growth going on right now - huge new infracstructures - makes our countries seem overall delapidated. The Chinese are a very confident, diligent, and even arrogent race that do have economic stability. I like that they still care for their own families enough that few are homeless. I agree that the amount of condos going up across the country to house the displaced are like putting the country people in cement coffins. I think we should all learn to consume less and rely on our own vicinty more, rather than supporting China's income to a tune of roughly 30% (so I'm told).

I love to travel the world exploring the beauty of ancient civilizations. I love a culture that creates alot of art in it's environment. I thought this was least evident at the visit to the school and it's city, where though everyone enjoyed the children, I couldn't help but observe the lack of beauty and cleanliness that would have impressed me more than the emphasis of the money box on the way out.

I think there are many cruise/tour companies out there that do a better job of itineraries. Viking was okay, had some nice choices, but certainly was not 5 star all the way.

[FeeFeeCat]

Thanks everyone for the info about adapters and liquids in carry-ons. Less than a week before departure and I'm really excited about visiting this distant land.

[gr8lakes]

Hi Everyone. Our documents arrived today for our November 19 China Cultural Delights. We're excited and document dancing.:D

I have a couple of questions. We're coming into Shanghai on our own a few days early and would like to take the Maglev train from the airport. However, we're staying at the St. Regis in Pudong and we can't figure out on the map how far it is from the Maglev train station, or where the closest Metro is.

Has anyone stayed here?

Has anyone taken the Maglev train?

Will we be able to get a taxi from the train station, or should we just take a taxi from the airport and forget the Maglev?

We don't speak Mandarin, so we will be "relying on the kindness of strangers" if we get lost.

The hotel wanted more than $100 for a transfer which seems high, (but maybe it isn't). Any comments will be appreciated.