Denied boarding -bevare if you hold a previus us visa

[momoftwinteens]

That would also ruin my Escape escape in 9 days!!! Can't have that!!! :eek:

 

Absolutely not. I hope you have a wonderful cruise. Enjoy your sunshine and warmth..as we New Englanders prepare to get dumped on.:(

[Tomtom70]

 

As far as needing to try and reach them in port.

You would probably need to get it from directory information? Any information desk for a port should also know it. Can also do a search on line to find the telephone number.

 

I don't recall what port you were sailing from but for example if I do a google search for customs boarder protection Miami I get

 

Miami Seaport

Port Information

Port Type: Port of Entry

Location Address:

903 South America Way

Terminal H

Miami, FL 33132

Mailing Address:

Operational Hours:

6:00 AM-10:00 PM (Eastern)

Weekdays (Monday-Sunday)

 

Port Code: 5201

Phone: (305) 536-4758

Fax: (305) 536-4878

Port Director: Dylan J. DeFrancisci

 

Thanks for the info. I will try and get an official answer from them as well.

 

 

When are there in the heat of the momemt you dont really thinkmof eveything 😀

Also I doubt if anything would come of me calling them as the NCL and port people really didnt want to listen tomwhat i told themmor sse what I wanted to show them.

[Froggitt]

The difference is that the old visa remains visible in your passport.

 

Sure. But if the OP had said that the parents have had say two or three previous ESTAs over 5 or 6 years, how do they know that they hadnt overstayed on them? And why arent they checking whether the other 4,000 people boarding have had previous ESTAs and denying them boarding?

[Froggitt]

The difference is that the old visa remains visible in your passport.

 

Rip the page out IMHO. You could say that the damage was done when an over-enthusiastic US Border Guard ripped out that stapled green form last time.;)

[triptolemus]

Rip the page out IMHO. You could say that the damage was done when an over-enthusiastic US Border Guard ripped out that stapled green form last time.;)

 

Missing visa pages are not at all good.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/FAQs.html

 

My passport has been damaged. Can I continue to use this passport?

 

If your passport has been significantly damaged, especially the book cover or the page displaying your personal data and photo, you will need to apply for a new passport. Damage that might require you to replace your passport includes water damage, a significant tear, unofficial markings on the data page, missing visa pages (torn out), a hole punch, or other injuries.

[RDC1]

Thanks for the info. I will try and get an official answer from them as well.

 

 

When are there in the heat of the momemt you dont really thinkmof eveything 😀

Also I doubt if anything would come of me calling them as the NCL and port people really didnt want to listen tomwhat i told themmor sse what I wanted to show them.

 

If nothing else an official answer from CBP should tell you if how NCL treated it was reasonable or not based upon US government policies. That would indicate how far to press NCL.

[Cruise Junky]

There should be no issue having an expired US visa in your passport. I had one in mine for about 8 years and travelled to the US every couple of months.

[RDC1]

There should be no issue having an expired US visa in your passport. I had one in mine for about 8 years and travelled to the US every couple of months.

 

I assume that you had stamps in your passport dated after the Visa showing that you did not remain in the US. The problem in this case is Visa, but no other stamps showing that they had left the US. Their passports were not stamped by their home country when they returned home and they had not gone anywhere else that stamped the passport, including when they returned to the US.

 

Also the problem was not when they entered the US, since CBP checks the computer. The problem was with NCL who only checks the passport. So no verification that they had left the US documented in the passport.

Edited December 30, 2016 by RDC1

[Cruise Junky]

I assume that you had stamps in your passport dated after the Visa showing that you did not remain in the US. The problem in this case is Visa, but no other stamps showing that they had left the US. Their passports were not stamped by their home country when they returned home and they had not gone anywhere else that stamped the passport, including when they returned to the US.

 

Also the problem was not when they entered the US, since CBP checks the computer. The problem was with NCL who only checks the passport. So no verification that they had left the US documented in the passport.

 

Wasn't an issue for them to get into the US. Sure as hell shouldn't have been an issue to board a ship. Just producing a copy of their boarding pass should have fixed that.

[triptolemus]

Wasn't an issue for them to get into the US. Sure as hell shouldn't have been an issue to board a ship. Just producing a copy of their boarding pass should have fixed that.

 

Why? What good would that do? I can make you a boarding pass that passes any visual inspection at a cruise check in counter in about 2 minutes.

 

NCL may have screwed up here, but don't pretend that a crumbled up boarding pass is going to fix anything.

[Cruise Junky]

Why? What good would that do? I can make you a boarding pass that passes any visual inspection at a cruise check in counter in about 2 minutes.

 

NCL may have screwed up here, but don't pretend that a crumbled up boarding pass is going to fix anything.

 

Air boarding pass not cruise. They arrived by air. There would have been proof of that.

[triptolemus]

Air boarding pass not cruise. They arrived by air. There would have been proof of that.

 

I know what you meant.

 

It wouldn't do anything.

[Cruise Junky]

I know what you meant.

 

It wouldn't do anything.

 

Probably not. Sounds like NCL were completely clueless. I had a similiar encounter with RCL 20 years ago but they were smart enough to figure it out.

[casofilia]

Unless I am not seeing things correctly here is what I see:

 

Two young people had student visas but they did not have any proof in their passports that they had left the USA "on time" when the visa had run out and so couldn't prove that they had never overstayed those student visas.

 

When they arrived in the USA by air they had ESTAs and so the Immigration people would not have checked their passports to see if there was an earlier visa.

 

The onshore crew checking them in did examine their passports and found the student visas but no proof that they had left the USA at the correct time and so assumed that they could have overstayed. They therefore refused boarding.

[RDC1]

Air boarding pass not cruise. They arrived by air. There would have been proof of that.

 

There is proof and there is "proof". The proof NCL needed was official documentation such as is documented in the passport. CBP didn't have a problem, because they could access their computer system. The cruise line does not have access so they want and needed physical proof such as an entry stamp after the Visa period. Problem is since countries are converting to electronic tracking they do not stamp the passports every time like they used to. So the students did not get stamped when they returned to their home country, nor on readmission to the US.

[RDC1]

Unless I am not seeing things correctly here is what I see:

 

Two young people had student visas but they did not have any proof in their passports that they had left the USA "on time" when the visa had run out and so couldn't prove that they had never overstayed those student visas.

 

When they arrived in the USA by air they had ESTAs and so the Immigration people would not have checked their passports to see if there was an earlier visa.

 

The onshore crew checking them in did examine their passports and found the student visas but no proof that they had left the USA at the correct time and so assumed that they could have overstayed. They therefore refused boarding.

 

Would not have mattered to the immigration folks because they could access their computer system and because they knew that they were coming from out of the country.

[Cruise Junky]

Would not have mattered to the immigration folks because they could access their computer system and because they knew that they were coming from out of the country.

 

According to the OP's first post they were able to log on and show NCL the same thing.

 

"we even logged into the travel history in us immigration site showing them they had records on leaving and returning....but it seems they had made their decision .....so did not help us."

[RDC1]

Wasn't an issue for them to get into the US. Sure as hell shouldn't have been an issue to board a ship. Just producing a copy of their boarding pass should have fixed that.

 

Not an issue with getting into the country because CBP can access the computer system with far more information. They also would have known that they had left the country because they were processing back into the country.

 

NCL did not have "proof" of that that. Thus the problem.

 

It is a classic issue of a process in transition. Would not have been a problem in the old days because their home country would have stamped their passport when they left the US and returned home and the US would have stamped in when they came back in. Neither happened because countries are depending more on electronic systems, not physical passport stamps. No problem entering the country. NCL still depending upon the old stamp every entry rules.

 

I suspect that their home country and the US have an agreement to share data between their immigration systems and thus no stamps needed.

[Cruise Junky]

Not an issue with getting into the country because CBP can access the computer system with far more information. They also would have known that they had left the country because they were processing back into the country.

 

NCL did not have "proof" of that that. Thus the problem.

 

It is a classic issue of a process in transition. Would not have been a problem in the old days because their home country would have stamped their passport when they left the US and returned home and the US would have stamped in when they came back in. Neither happened because countries are depending more on electronic systems, not physical passport stamps. No problem entering the country. NCL still depending upon the old stamp every entry rules.

 

I suspect that their home country and the US have an agreement to share data between their immigration systems and thus no stamps needed.

 

Then NCL shouldn't be making decisions that cost the OP $5,000 without the correct technology to make that determination. They are in the wrong 100%.

[RDC1]

According to the OP's first post they were able to log on and show NCL the same thing.

 

"we even logged into the travel history in us immigration site showing them they had records on leaving and returning....but it seems they had made their decision .....so did not help us."

 

Cruise lines do not accept electronic records, they require physical proof. Unless the cruise line has access through their internal systems as part of the process they are not going to accept what a passenger says is "proof" by logging in somewhere, even if it is a government site.

 

Just like a said earlier I can access a copy of my birth certificate on the county web site where I was born. But if I forgot my physical copy (if I was traveling under such instead of a passport) they would not accept me logging in and showing them the image, even though it is a government web site.

[RDC1]

Then NCL shouldn't be making decisions that cost the OP $5,000 without the correct technology to make that determination. They are in the wrong 100%.

 

Not necessarily. It depends upon what the cruise line were given by the CBP as requirements for documentation. That is why it is a good idea for the OP to contact the CBP and ask them directly what the requirements are and see how they have directed the cruise lines.

 

Actually a rather unusual circumstance. You could say an unintended consequence of modernization.

 

The problem is that if NCL let them on board without sufficient documentation and the CBP would not let them back in their are liable as was indicated earlier.

 

I would also suspect that the CBP is NOT going to give the cruise lines direct access to their internal computer systems used for immigration clearance.

Edited December 30, 2016 by RDC1

[Cruise Junky]

Cruise lines do not accept electronic records, they require physical proof. Unless the cruise line has access through their internal systems as part of the process they are not going to accept what a passenger says is "proof" by logging in somewhere, even if it is a government site.

 

Just like a said earlier I can access a copy of my birth certificate on the county web site where I was born. But if I forgot my physical copy (if I was traveling under such instead of a passport) they would not accept me logging in and showing them the image, even though it is a government web site.

 

The only proof they needed to board that ship was a valid ESTA for reentry and a valid passport. They had both. NCL owes them a refund.

[RDC1]

The only proof they needed to board that ship was a valid ESTA for reentry and a valid passport. They had both. NCL owes them a refund.

 

Apparently not. The interesting question in this is could one apply for an ESTA without ever leaving the country? After all since the US normally does not check departure. One could probably process an ESTA. Print it out and then show up at the cruise terminal with the printed document and still be in violation of overstaying their Visa. The cruise line could not know and only when they came back to the country and went through immigration would the check of the CBP computer system show that they had not entered the country under the ESTA.

 

Even if they could not successfully generate an ESTA one could easily make up a document that would look like a printed ESTA. Thus since they don't have access to the CBP system they needed proof in the passport.

 

Earlier in my career I used to over see system design at a government regulatory authority and a key part is to look for how one can spoof the process.

[casofilia]

{Snipped}

The interesting question in this is could one apply for an ESTA without ever leaving the country?

 

Is it also possible for someone else to apply for the ESTAs on their behalf? I am sure that the OP could have applied for, printed out and then carried to the USA the ESTAs.

 

I would imagine large numbers of adults apply for and print out the ESTA for their spouse/partner.

[Cruise Junky]

Apparently not. The interesting question in this is could one apply for an ESTA without ever leaving the country? After all since the US normally does not check departure. One could probably process an ESTA. Print it out and then show up at the cruise terminal with the printed document and still be in violation of overstaying their Visa. The cruise line could not know and only when they came back to the country and went through immigration would the check of the CBP computer system show that they had not entered the country under the ESTA.

 

Even if they could not successfully generate an ESTA one could easily make up a document that would look like a printed ESTA. Thus since they don't have access to the CBP system they needed proof in the passport.

 

Earlier in my career I used to over see system design at a government regulatory authority and a key part is to look for how one can spoof the process.

 

The OP did nothing wrong. Are you saying that with standard 10 year passports everyone with an expired visa in it shouldn't be allowed to cruise? When I leave the US they don't stamp my passport (I'm a British citizen living in Canada) and your home country doesn't stamp your passport. NCL needs better access to technology to be making this very expensive decision in an electronic age