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Puerto Rico will be out of power for 4-6 MONTHS


gardn198
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It is about time! Late, should have been done right away, but it will help the people of Puerto Rico.

 

It will be interesting to see how many foreign flag ships actually are used for this, transporting goods from the mainland to PR, since there are US flag Jones Act ships waiting to load at mainland ports because there is no room for their cargo on the docks in PR. The problem is not that there is insufficient Jones Act tonnage to get supplies to PR, it is that there is no way to get those supplies off the port area to the areas needing the supplies. FEMA has already stated this. This is one reason the President didn't grant a waiver right away, based on his FEMA director's analysis.

 

And the much ballyhooed Jones Act waiver for hurricane Irma (Harvey didn't require one because of the pipeline infrastructure around Texas), resulted in exactly one foreign flag ship carrying gasoline/jet to Florida (after the storm) where there are no pipelines, while there were 6 US flag tankers stacked up outside Miami, Tampa, and Port Everglades waiting for the ports to reopen.

 

In rebuttal to several articles I've seen (notably the NYT) regarding the Jones Act and PR, foreign flag ships are not subject to "punitive tariffs and fees" to enter PR. In the most recent study of PR's maritime economy by the GAO, over 50% of all ships calling at PR ports were foreign flag, bringing goods from overseas, where most "US consumer goods" are actually made.

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In the short term, it doesn't sound like the waiving of the Jones Act will help the situation. It has been reported that there are relief supplies sitting on dock since Saturday and they don't have drivers, trucks or fuel to deliver. The port is not running at full capacity and that there are already more ships than can be handled.

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It will be interesting to see how many foreign flag ships actually are used for this, transporting goods from the mainland to PR, since there are US flag Jones Act ships waiting to load at mainland ports because there is no room for their cargo on the docks in PR. The problem is not that there is insufficient Jones Act tonnage to get supplies to PR, it is that there is no way to get those supplies off the port area to the areas needing the supplies. FEMA has already stated this. This is one reason the President didn't grant a waiver right away, based on his FEMA director's analysis.

 

And the much ballyhooed Jones Act waiver for hurricane Irma (Harvey didn't require one because of the pipeline infrastructure around Texas), resulted in exactly one foreign flag ship carrying gasoline/jet to Florida (after the storm) where there are no pipelines, while there were 6 US flag tankers stacked up outside Miami, Tampa, and Port Everglades waiting for the ports to reopen.

 

In rebuttal to several articles I've seen (notably the NYT) regarding the Jones Act and PR, foreign flag ships are not subject to "punitive tariffs and fees" to enter PR. In the most recent study of PR's maritime economy by the GAO, over 50% of all ships calling at PR ports were foreign flag, bringing goods from overseas, where most "US consumer goods" are actually made.

 

Agreed. The Jones Act is not the problem. It's the lack of trucks and drivers to pick up the cargo at the docks - only about 20% of normal are showing up. I've seen several articles about this on Spanish language media. I am wondering why the press and politicians think a Jones Act waiver will help.

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Agreed. The Jones Act is not the problem. It's the lack of trucks and drivers to pick up the cargo at the docks - only about 20% of normal are showing up. I've seen several articles about this on Spanish language media. I am wondering why the press and politicians think a Jones Act waiver will help.

 

 

 

Agreed. It has nothing to do with Trump administration and everything to do with the fact that the infrastructure in PR has been completely destroyed.

 

 

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Agreed. The Jones Act is not the problem. It's the lack of trucks and drivers to pick up the cargo at the docks - only about 20% of normal are showing up. I've seen several articles about this on Spanish language media. I am wondering why the press and politicians think a Jones Act waiver will help.

 

It's because high profile politicians like John McCain have been trying to repeal the Jones Act for decades, and they see this as a public relations opportunity to stick the knife in deeper.

 

Our military has sent a hospital ship and an amphibious assault ship to provide helicopter transportation and evacuation, but there is far more that could be done. There are currently about a dozen Military Sealift Command ships loaded with military vehicles and engineering equipment, that are designed to offload this equipment and goods like food and ammunition (don't need that in PR though) without the need for port facilities stationed along the US Gulf and East Coasts. This would relieve the pressure on the ports, and provide trucks and bulldozers to clear roads and get supplies moving. We need to send the Army's combat engineers and the Navy's Seabees to get to work as they did at Subic Bay Naval Station and Clark AFB in the Philippines when Mt. Pinotubo erupter amidst a typhoon.

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Agreed. It has nothing to do with Trump administration and everything to do with the fact that the infrastructure in PR has been completely destroyed.

 

 

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I disagree, but thankfully it was waived this morning.

 

Florida and Texas need the waiver a whole lot less, as there were still over land routes. That does not exist for the islands. And there is more than cargo ships involved.

 

We did get word that things are starting to get better. Some more cell service and some grocery stores are opening.

 

 

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I disagree, but thankfully it was waived this morning.

 

Florida and Texas need the waiver a whole lot less, as there were still over land routes. That does not exist for the islands. And there is more than cargo ships involved.

 

We did get word that things are starting to get better. Some more cell service and some grocery stores are opening.

 

 

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I will still say that I believe this is merely a PR exercise, and that there will be very few foreign flag ships taking cargo from the US to PR, just as there was only one ship that took fuel to Florida. Again, its not that there isn't enough US tonnage, its that they can't unload and store the supplies, regardless of what flag the ship flies. And Texas never had, or needed, a waiver of the Jones Act, it was strictly Florida. The other thing is that the US refineries in Texas are still not at full capacity (there are dozens of tankers sitting off Galveston, just waiting), so PR would be better off buying gasoline from Venezuela at $0.60/gallon (that's right, gasoline in Venezuela is 60 cents a gallon), and the distance from PR is 1/3 of the distance from Houston to PR, and this gasoline can be carried to PR on foreign flag ships without any waiver of the Jones Act, as any cargo brought from overseas is not covered by the Jones Act.

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I disagree, but thankfully it was waived this morning.

 

Florida and Texas need the waiver a whole lot less, as there were still over land routes. That does not exist for the islands. And there is more than cargo ships involved.

 

We did get word that things are starting to get better. Some more cell service and some grocery stores are opening.

 

 

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Not sure what you mean by "there is more than cargo ships involved"? What else does the Jones Act deal with?

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I will still say that I believe this is merely a PR exercise, and that there will be very few foreign flag ships taking cargo from the US to PR, just as there was only one ship that took fuel to Florida. Again, its not that there isn't enough US tonnage, its that they can't unload and store the supplies, regardless of what flag the ship flies. And Texas never had, or needed, a waiver of the Jones Act, it was strictly Florida. The other thing is that the US refineries in Texas are still not at full capacity (there are dozens of tankers sitting off Galveston, just waiting), so PR would be better off buying gasoline from Venezuela at $0.60/gallon (that's right, gasoline in Venezuela is 60 cents a gallon), and the distance from PR is 1/3 of the distance from Houston to PR, and this gasoline can be carried to PR on foreign flag ships without any waiver of the Jones Act, as any cargo brought from overseas is not covered by the Jones Act.

 

No way would I sign that deal with Venezuela if I were PR. Could you imagine how that would play on US mainland TV or Twitter?!!!! I think that this may be one time when buying US is really in their best interest!

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No way would I sign that deal with Venezuela if I were PR. Could you imagine how that would play on US mainland TV or Twitter?!!!! I think that this may be one time when buying US is really in their best interest!

 

The vast majority of gasoline in the Northeast comes from Europe, and has for decades. How has that played out on TV or twitter?

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No way would I sign that deal with Venezuela if I were PR. Could you imagine how that would play on US mainland TV or Twitter?!!!! I think that this may be one time when buying US is really in their best interest!

 

The US has always been a huge importer of Venezuelan crude. In turn, Venezuela buys lots of refined products from the US and imports sweet crude to mix with their own sour (high sulfur) crude.

 

Here are some stats on US imports:

 

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-refiners-venezuela/u-s-oil-refiners-pare-exposure-to-venezuelan-crude-imports-idUSKBN1AC36M

 

"The largest U.S. buyers of Venezuelan crude this year through June were Citgo, Valero, Chevron Corp, and Phillips 66. In all, U.S. imports of Venezuelan crude in the first six months this year totaled 655,000 bpd, or about 7.5 percent of all oil imports."

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The US has always been a huge importer of Venezuelan crude. In turn, Venezuela buys lots of refined products from the US and imports sweet crude to mix with their own sour (high sulfur) crude.

 

Here are some stats on US imports:

 

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-refiners-venezuela/u-s-oil-refiners-pare-exposure-to-venezuelan-crude-imports-idUSKBN1AC36M

 

"The largest U.S. buyers of Venezuelan crude this year through June were Citgo, Valero, Chevron Corp, and Phillips 66. In all, U.S. imports of Venezuelan crude in the first six months this year totaled 655,000 bpd, or about 7.5 percent of all oil imports."

 

Oil yes, people no. I got it.:D

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I will still say that I believe this is merely a PR exercise, and that there will be very few foreign flag ships taking cargo from the US to PR, just as there was only one ship that took fuel to Florida. Again, its not that there isn't enough US tonnage, its that they can't unload and store the supplies, regardless of what flag the ship flies. And Texas never had, or needed, a waiver of the Jones Act, it was strictly Florida. The other thing is that the US refineries in Texas are still not at full capacity (there are dozens of tankers sitting off Galveston, just waiting), so PR would be better off buying gasoline from Venezuela at $0.60/gallon (that's right, gasoline in Venezuela is 60 cents a gallon), and the distance from PR is 1/3 of the distance from Houston to PR, and this gasoline can be carried to PR on foreign flag ships without any waiver of the Jones Act, as any cargo brought from overseas is not covered by the Jones Act.

 

I don't mean to insult you, unfortunately your information about Florida is a bit off. There were tankers off the west coast staged, ready to bring gas to the state after the storm. They were staged for Miami, Tampa, and other ports along that route. We had gas in little over 24 hours and I am in Orlando. The lines for gas ended within 48 hours. Now the power was horrible. Good news on the power is that it was restored 50% faster than when Charlie came through.

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I don't mean to insult you, unfortunately your information about Florida is a bit off. There were tankers off the west coast staged, ready to bring gas to the state after the storm. They were staged for Miami, Tampa, and other ports along that route. We had gas in little over 24 hours and I am in Orlando. The lines for gas ended within 48 hours. Now the power was horrible. Good news on the power is that it was restored 50% faster than when Charlie came through.

 

No, my information about Florida was correct. I was on one of those tankers staged off Florida, and we were the second tanker into Port Everglades. Nearly all of those tankers were US flag tankers, and any that were foreign flag were bringing in refined product from overseas, as they are allowed to, as that has nothing to do with the Jones Act. There was only one foreign flag tanker that loaded in the US for delivery in Florida. So, the Jones Act waiver, which was declared as a means to get fuel to the state before the storm, didn't do that, and only one tanker load was carried under the waiver, and all subsequent domestic product has been carried on Jones Act tankers. There are foreign flag tankers into Florida ports every day, just as there were in Puerto Rican ports before the storm, carrying refined product from overseas.

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No, my information about Florida was correct. I was on one of those tankers staged off Florida, and we were the second tanker into Port Everglades. Nearly all of those tankers were US flag tankers, and any that were foreign flag were bringing in refined product from overseas, as they are allowed to, as that has nothing to do with the Jones Act. There was only one foreign flag tanker that loaded in the US for delivery in Florida. So, the Jones Act waiver, which was declared as a means to get fuel to the state before the storm, didn't do that, and only one tanker load was carried under the waiver, and all subsequent domestic product has been carried on Jones Act tankers. There are foreign flag tankers into Florida ports every day, just as there were in Puerto Rican ports before the storm, carrying refined product from overseas.

 

Sorry I wasn't talking about foreign flag tankers.. I was talking about all tankers. You may have been on one of those tankers, however I live here and have personal expertise as to what happened with IRMA

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Sorry I wasn't talking about foreign flag tankers.. I was talking about all tankers. You may have been on one of those tankers, however I live here and have personal expertise as to what happened with IRMA

 

That is my point. Everyone is saying that waiving the Jones Act for Florida is what got the fuel back to the state as quickly as it did. I'm saying that it was nearly exclusively Jones Act tankers that did the job, not any foreign flag tankers. It was a public relations sop to the public to show that they were trying everything. Similarly, I doubt that very many, if any, foreign flag ships will be involved in the Puerto Rico relief, as there is so much Jones Act tonnage available. There will probably be some foreign flag ships used simply to show "that it was needed", but again this is more a publicity thing than a reality.

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