Rhine water levels 2018 and similar topics

[OldCrustyGuy]

Anyone booked on an upcoming Grand Circle Rhine/Mosel cruise?  Two weeks from today we depart for our air gateway city and fly on November 7.  Were told we would hear something two weeks out - that obviously isn't happening.  Would like to hear from any other Grand Circle cruisers whether you recently completed the cruise or are pending departure.  Goes without saying, have found notamermaid's postings quite enlightening.

[gigmom23]

Rusty3, I’ll be sure to let you know if I hear anything. 

[Begete]

Anyone had any communication from Uniworld? We are supposed to fly on November 8 to Budapest via Amsterdam to board the River Duchess.

[Cazzaroo]

5 hours ago, notamermaid said:

And here is a video to go with the photo of the area. The ships that pass each other at 1:56 look scarily close: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we6tZNjv20A

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Mark_T]

For those on Crystal Bach & Mahler, if you use one of the many ship trackers you'll find your respective ships following itineraries around various places in the Netherlands right now.

 

From what I have picked up from other comments, Crystal are generally still cruising but to completely different ports from the original schedule.

 

So if a cruise on the ship irrespective of destination is satisfactory odds are you will not be disappointed, but if the ship is not the primary focus but the specific destinations on your original itinerary, then I fear it may be a less happy outcome.

 

Some trips were truncated as well, but I've not heard that comment recently.

 

Hope that helps and I would definitely be making a lot of phone calls or bugging my TA to get some sort of statement before flying...

[malcliz]

Gigmom23 - We are booked on the second half of your cruise due to board in Mainz on 4th November. I have been tracking Crystal Bach and it is in Rotterdam at the moment. Our guess is that we may be coached from either Mainz or Frankfurt to somewhere like Koblenz with obviously a complete change of ports. Our travel agent was told by Crystal that they would confirm 5 days before so presumably we will know when you know as it is the same cruise.  I phoned Crystal myself yesterday and asked if they were cancelling any cruises and they said they weren’t and that the guests who had been sailing revised itineraries were still really enjoying their cruises. They wouldn’t give any indication yet of where that might be so time will tell I suppose.  It would be good to hear from any Crystal Bach guests sailing the revised itinerary at the moment. 

[notamermaid]

It looks as if a fair amount of rain will fall from Saturday onward in the catchment area of the Rhine upstream from Koblenz. But do not be mistaken, those are not downpours, just a nice bit of rain lasting for several hours. I can still find no official data for Kaub and Koblenz for river levels further out than Friday, the two official sites I consult do not give any. Maxau is predicted to rise on Saturday and Sunday if we are lucky it will be around 340cm by Sunday, it looks more like 330cm. That is not significant.

 

Does Crystal really believe the cruise starting on 28th October can take place as planned, I wonder? Perhaps they assume that by the time they reach the Rhine gorge (is it 2 November?) they can sail through. With no data available further than 30 October nobody knows what is happening. They could just be waiting for the predictions for 2 November to arrive... or not worry too much as the cruise will end in Frankfurt not far from the Rhine gorge. I am just a bit surprised as they have rerouted quite a few cruises before.

 

I can understand river cruise companies waiting with giving out info on river cruises that start later than 30 October.

 

I hope you can all start your cruises as planned and are informed in a comfortable time frame with little worry.

 

By the way, not that it helps you lot on the large ships but the Rhine gorge is navigable, I have tracked two ships on marinetraffic, the Brabant has made it through downstream today and the Johann Strauss upstream. They are both 110m long.

 

Here is a more lighthearted story concerning low water levels. Eels living in the Rhine water at Cologne have had their home taken away. An angler saw the wreck of a car in the water and informed police. The car has been removed, greatly disturbing the eels living in it. If police can locate the owner he will have to pay a large fine. The eels now need to find a new home.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

 

 

[gigmom23]

Mark T - I have been using marinetraffic.com to follow Crystal Bach. We don’t have a problem with a varied itinerary, especially since we did a Budapest to Amasterdam on AmaSonata 2 years ago. We would not be happy with a  shortened cruise, however. I will be calling our TA and Crystal tomorrow as our biggest concern is our scheduled flight back to the US from Frankfurt.

[gigmom23]

Thanks to everyone for all the info. I sure appreciate cruisecritic and the helpful community of cruisers. 

[Rusty3]

Thank you Mark_T.  I will try the tracking .... and I am guessing you are exactly right about rearranged itineraries. I am loathe to take buses all over the place, but feel painted into a corner!

 

I do understand that the fine print on cruise tickets (the legal stuff) seems to give ship captains/companies the right to modify itineraries for "safety" reasons and that probably fits low water situations. It still sucks that they are not more forthcoming. Multiple calls to my TA and to Crystal have been met with "don't know yet" or "they haven't told us yet" type of comments. Seems like we will be "forced" to go on the trip or risk loosing most, info all, of our fare. If we withdraw voluntarily all of the benefit falls to the Crystal line and to the trip insurance company.

[notamermaid]

4 minutes ago, gigmom23 said:

Mark T - I have been using marinetraffic.com to follow Crystal Bach. We don’t have a problem with a varied itinerary, especially since we did a Budapest to Amasterdam on AmaSonata 2 years ago. We would not be happy with a  shortened cruise, however. I will be calling our TA and Crystal tomorrow as our biggest concern is our scheduled flight back to the US from Frankfurt.

gigmom23,

 

just in case you have not seen it yet, there is a thread on past changes to Crystal river cruise a bit further down the board that also mention flight arrangements.

 

notamermaid

 

[Mark_T]

8 minutes ago, gigmom23 said:

 I will be calling our TA and Crystal tomorrow as our biggest concern is our scheduled flight back to the US from Frankfurt.

 

That would be my concern as well if this is a flight that you have booked yourself rather than through Crystal.

 

It feels as though Crystal are mostly depending on people regarding the ship itself as the primary destination with the itinerary as a secondary concern, hence any cruise is better than no cruise and leaving it as late as possible to communicate the changes to reduce the chances of cancellations.

 

Fortunately for you, it is pretty easy to get to Frankfurt by train direct from Amsterdam in about 4 hours, or by a direct, short flight, so if you do end up sailing around the Netherlands for a while you can still get to your return flight with minimal inconvenience.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Mark_T

[ural guy]

 A few of us posters who are due to sail from Basel on 2 November, on Vantage's River Voyager.

The cruise is 14 nights, heading up the Mosel a bit, along with the Rhine up to Amsterdam.  At the end of our cruise, it heads to Budapest and then some Christmas cruises.

 

The ship/boat is in Amsterdam now.  I don't think Vantage has enough boats for a ship swap, or that they are in the right place now.  Realistic scenario is a bus tour up to Koblenz then maybe 7 nights on the boat.  I really hope we get some meaningful communication from Vantage in the next few days...no way can they come close to providing anything like a 14 night cruise.  To not acknowledge the basic hydrology at play here is a bit like we're fools? 

 

Just saying, that 'sponge made of limestone' (the Rhine river catchment) has 'anticedent moisture conditions' similar to that of a sponge in the desert.  You need to get a lot of rain to recharge the soil before you will get runoff.  And the larger the river catchment area, the longer to recharge and recover.  That's why the creek next to you can fill up so fast after a thunderstorm, not so much a big river.

 

Please Vantage, just give us options!  Understand if you cancel. Had a great time in 2016!, still love ya!  Thanks.

[DonnaMW]

5 minutes ago, ural guy said:

 A few of us posters who are due to sail from Basel on 2 November, on Vantage's River Voyager.

The cruise is 14 nights, heading up the Mosel a bit, along with the Rhine up to Amsterdam.  At the end of our cruise, it heads to Budapest and then some Christmas cruises.

 

The ship/boat is in Amsterdam now.  I don't think Vantage has enough boats for a ship swap, or that they are in the right place now.  Realistic scenario is a bus tour up to Koblenz then maybe 7 nights on the boat.  I really hope we get some meaningful communication from Vantage in the next few days...no way can they come close to providing anything like a 14 night cruise.  To not acknowledge the basic hydrology at play here is a bit like we're fools? 

 

Just saying, that 'sponge made of limestone' (the Rhine river catchment) has 'anticedent moisture conditions' similar to that of a sponge in the desert.  You need to get a lot of rain to recharge the soil before you will get runoff.  And the larger the river catchment area, the longer to recharge and recover.  That's why the creek next to you can fill up so fast after a thunderstorm, not so much a big river.

 

Please Vantage, just give us options!  Understand if you cancel. Had a great time in 2016!, still love ya!  Thanks.

 

Well I was interested in how long it would take for our ship to get back to Basel since it has been in Amsterdam since last week.  

I wrote vantage on the ship and they wrote me back that it would take 40 hours. 

Not reassuring since that takes us pretty much almost to our leaving the us.  

Yes Vantage is not doing us a favor at all. 

[ural guy]

Donna-  40 hrs, thanks for asking that, I was wondering the same thing.  All I've gotten from Vantage is 'The cruise is still on schedule'.  

 

  If Koblenz is at 26 cm?  roughly 10", then how does a ship with a draft of 1.6 meters (5' plus a few inches) make it through the gorge, BEFORE all the sustained rain is forecast to happen?  If I'm missing something, let me know.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cazzaroo]

Hello All,

I've been reading with interest and want to send a huge thank you to notamermaid for all the very informative updates. We are supposed to be sailing on Viking Tialfi : Basel-Amsterdam departing 8 December . Having read everything here and my experience with trying to get direct , honest updates from Viking, I am not impressed with Viking's information sharing. We don't want to be fobbed off,  we just want an update of real conditions so that we can make our own decision about whether or not to proceed. We would rather cancel now than be told the day of arrival that we are now on a bus tour.  Interested to hear of how people are experiencing the Viking treatment, if any options are forthcoming such as refunds, discounts or other offers , and will continue following this very informative post. We have a full holiday planned anyway , so it's not like cancelling the cruise component will completely ruin it. But of course it would be very disappointing  !

Thanks all!

[austinetc]

Is this October going to set a record for the driest October in recorded history in Germany?  I wouldn't doubt it.  On top of the horrible summer, I feel for those we leave behind after the cruise.  There are worse things than bussing.  I'm getting excited about the modified itinerary, which will include a tour of the Gutenberg Museum in Mainz.  Lemonade!

[skybluewaters]

We have just returned from the Crystal Mahler 16-day cruise which began in Amsterdam 10-3-18 and ended in Amsterdam 10-19-18.  First off, let me say that Crystal did an unbelievably good job in providing a superb itinerary despite the low-water conditions.  Although going to Vienna and Budapest was not possible, the alternative stops along the Rhine and especially the Moselle were outstanding.  Stops included Bernkastel, which is arguably the cutest town on the Moselle (or any other river), Cochem which was also excellent, Koblenz, Dusseldorf, Rotterdam, Antwerp and Ghent, among others.  The excursions were phenomenal:  luxury buses to get there (with no excursion being more than one hour away), top-notch guides, small groups (never more than 15 people, usually less, with extra guides to allow for smaller groups), and superb choices of excursions (ranging from ebike trips in about 50% of the stops, to city walks, to a private evening concert, to visits to museums, etc., to full day trips to interesting cities/sites).  The excursion to Bruges was unbelievably nice, and the visit to Luxembourg also was excellent.  Another day trip was to Trier, a great city and a wonderful excursion.

 

The service on the boat was impeccable, as it always is on Crystal.  Out of a capacity of 106 passengers, there where quite a few cancellations, as there were just 61 passengers on this cruise.  The cabin attendants, waiters, excursion personel, etc. provided over-the-top service. 

 

The food was equal to or better than that of a typical Michelin one-star restaurant.  Creative, beautifully presented, unusual as well as classic items were the norm.  The liquor selection was also outstanding and the bartender would know what your preferences are by the third day.

 

The boat itself is beautiful, luxurious, comfortable and classy.  The rooms are very nice.  The public spaces are also excellent.

 

Crystal notified us 8 or 9 days before the cruise that there would probably be changes to the itinerary, and on day 6 prior to the cruise they sent us the amended itinerary.  We were given the option to cancel or to stay on and receive some compensation.  I believe Crystal truly didn't know for sure what the itinerary would be until that time, and they didn't want to make repeated changes and so notified us only when they were certain.

 

Crystal's primary concern is to maintain the trip as a river cruise and not to bus passengers and not to put us up in hotels.  They did this successfully for our trip.  If your only goal when booking this cruise was to see the original destinations, of course you would be disappointed.  But if you wanted a superb, luxurious vacation, with a caring crew, stimulating excursions, the best food on the rivers, and wanted to visit some outstanding spots along the Rhine and the Moselle, you absolutely could not do any better than this cruise. 

 

If anyone has any specific questions about this cruise, I'd be glad to answer them. 

 

[fiyahflash]

My father invited me on a river cruise - APT, Budapest to Amsterdam on the 26th October. Got informed just before 5pm on Friday 19th of the cancellation and so spent most of Saturday trying to see if we could salvage the holiday; ending up booking a bus tour departing the 4th November so spend a few grand changing flights and accommodation around to suit the changes - here is hoping that travel insurance covers those.

 

Have booked in for the same cruise in late May via Avalon (this time with flight credit) so fingers crossed that my father gets his cruise 

[malcliz]

Thank you skybluewaters for your review of your cruise which is very reassuring for those of us booked on Crystal cruises. I’m so glad you had such a good cruise despite the low water conditions.  

[djh1959]

18 hours ago, notamermaid said:

 

I suppose things are getting serious for you now and it is time to start thinking about packing (unless you are like me who does that sort of thing 48 hours before she sets off).

 

APT is really doing well with communication, I must say. And they better be with CruiseCritic being around and us all filling the search engines with hits about low water. We are doing well. Talking of search engines. The river cruise woes have reached Australia and New Zealand in the news in that travelweekly (the Australian version) has published this article: http://www.travelweekly.com.au/article/weather-forces-apt-and-travelmarvel-to-cancel-multiple-river-cruises/

 

Rain is coming to the Rhine valley, but the strategic aspect is very much in the open...

 

notamermaid

 

notamermaid, I am in Melbourne, Australia, and they were talking about it on the radio the other day.  Someone called in saying that their friend's cruise had been cancelled.  Everyone seemed very shocked and had no idea why, but then people started ringing in explaining.  So the news is certainly filtering out.

[Dance momma]

Anybody heard from Uniworld?  We are scheduled on the river Empress due to leave for Amsterdam in 10 days!  Praying for rain and that its not too late!  Would love to know what is going on?  

[notamermaid]

7 hours ago, austinetc said:

Is this October going to set a record for the driest October in recorded history in Germany?  I wouldn't doubt it.  On top of the horrible summer, I feel for those we leave behind after the cruise.  There are worse things than bussing.  I'm getting excited about the modified itinerary, which will include a tour of the Gutenberg Museum in Mainz.  Lemonade!

I have just finished reading a full newspaper page dedicated to the low water levels on the Rhine. And a meteorologist sort of answered your question in it! The year 2018 currently rates at about the fifth driest on record, where it will be in the rankings in the end we will need to see at the end of the year.

 

notamermaid

 

[femme de mer]

7 hours ago, skybluewaters said:

We have just returned from the Crystal Mahler 16-day cruise which began in Amsterdam 10-3-18 and ended in Amsterdam 10-19-18.  First off, let me say that Crystal did an unbelievably good job in providing a superb itinerary despite the low-water conditions.  Although going to Vienna and Budapest was not possible, the alternative stops along the Rhine and especially the Moselle were outstanding.  Stops included Bernkastel, which is arguably the cutest town on the Moselle (or any other river), Cochem which was also excellent, Koblenz, Dusseldorf, Rotterdam, Antwerp and Ghent, among others.  The excursions were phenomenal:  luxury buses to get there (with no excursion being more than one hour away), top-notch guides, small groups (never more than 15 people, usually less, with extra guides to allow for smaller groups), and superb choices of excursions (ranging from ebike trips in about 50% of the stops, to city walks, to a private evening concert, to visits to museums, etc., to full day trips to interesting cities/sites).  The excursion to Bruges was unbelievably nice, and the visit to Luxembourg also was excellent.  Another day trip was to Trier, a great city and a wonderful excursion.

 

The service on the boat was impeccable, as it always is on Crystal.  Out of a capacity of 106 passengers, there where quite a few cancellations, as there were just 61 passengers on this cruise.  The cabin attendants, waiters, excursion personel, etc. provided over-the-top service. 

 

The food was equal to or better than that of a typical Michelin one-star restaurant.  Creative, beautifully presented, unusual as well as classic items were the norm.  The liquor selection was also outstanding and the bartender would know what your preferences are by the third day.

 

The boat itself is beautiful, luxurious, comfortable and classy.  The rooms are very nice.  The public spaces are also excellent.

 

Crystal notified us 8 or 9 days before the cruise that there would probably be changes to the itinerary, and on day 6 prior to the cruise they sent us the amended itinerary.  We were given the option to cancel or to stay on and receive some compensation.  I believe Crystal truly didn't know for sure what the itinerary would be until that time, and they didn't want to make repeated changes and so notified us only when they were certain.

 

Crystal's primary concern is to maintain the trip as a river cruise and not to bus passengers and not to put us up in hotels.  They did this successfully for our trip.  If your only goal when booking this cruise was to see the original destinations, of course you would be disappointed.  But if you wanted a superb, luxurious vacation, with a caring crew, stimulating excursions, the best food on the rivers, and wanted to visit some outstanding spots along the Rhine and the Moselle, you absolutely could not do any better than this cruise. 

 

If anyone has any specific questions about this cruise, I'd be glad to answer them. 

 

I want to echo skybluewaters! 

 

I was on Crystal's Debussy from October 1 -10. Our original itineray Basel- Amsterdam was amended to start from Andernach- with ports being: Koblenz, Cochem, Cologne, Arnhem Rotterdam, Amsterdam.

 

Given the water level situation at that time, Crystal was able to arrange for a boat excursion through the Rhine Gorge-  It was splendid and was greatly appreciated as this was removed from the original itinerary. 

Thank you, notamermaid, for that suggestion. Prior to my trip, I was communicating via both email and phone with guest relations and had made that request.

[femme de mer]

Sorry for error- i was on the Debussy from Oct 3- 10