Just Business Or Demise of Ethics?

[nukesubsailor]

We just returned from a 20-day Caribbean cruise on the Royal Princess. During this cruise we got to pay more for a bottle of wine plus pay for canned soda. This was because we were not allowed to enjoy the terms of the all inclusive beverage package in effect when we booked the cruise. Instead we had no choice but to adhere to the terms of the replacement premium beverage package.

To add insult to injury, I learned that the 4 coffee cards I had were not to be honored for any of the 60 punches intact on them. These cards were purchased on previous cruises by exchanging mini-bar setups that I was paying for by booking a suite and paying tens of thousands of dollars over the years to become an elite member of the Captain's Circle loyalty club. These cards had no ship name, date, cruise number or anything that identified when they were purchased.

I guess I could have lied and claim that I got them on this cruise but that would not be ethical. Apparently Princess considers it ethical to deny a customer any benefit promised when they sold the customer $150 worth of coffee cards.

I now think I will no longer book and have to pre-pay for Princess excursions. What is to keep Princess from selling me an expensive excursion to see the Leaning Tower of Pisa and instead take me to see a leaning Porta-Potty on the pier. Apparently Princess sees no ethical problem with intentionally failing to deliver what they promise when they take your money.

Needless to say, I enjoyed staying up late last night and had a lot to say when I filled out the post-cruise on-line survey.

[sunsetbeachgal]

Are You saying that you were denied being able to order a specialty coffee drink on the Royal and pay for it using the remaining punches left on these coffee cards which had no dates?

 

This sounds contrary to what others have experienced. Please explain

 

 

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Edited March 1, 2018 by sunsetbeachgal

[geoherb]

I'm shocked that the coffee cards were not honored. There's a long thread on the expiration dates on the new cards they're issuing nowadays. We did not have any problems using a card from our cruise last summer on the Caribbean Princess when we were on the Regal Princess last week.

[paul929207]

When we had the PBP in October, I did not have to use a coffee card as the PMP covered coffees. Sodas were also covered.

[nukesubsailor]

Are You saying that you were denied being able to order a specialty coffee drink on the Royal and pay for it using the remaining punches left on these coffee cards which had no dates?

 

This sounds contrary to what others have experienced. Please explain

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

That is exactly what I am saying. My coffee cards got wet when the wallet I carried them in got wet. I took them to the passenger services desk to ask if I could get the damaged but still legible cards replaced with dry ones. The agent called the beverage manager who asked if I had purchased them aboard the Royal on this cruise. I said no. I was then told the policy had been changed and coffee cards were only good for the cruise on which they are purchased.

I can only speak about my experience. The policy may be enforced differently on other ships and at other times so I cannot help it if my experience sounds contrary to what others have experienced.

[nukesubsailor]

When we had the PBP in October, I did not have to use a coffee card as the PMP covered coffees. Sodas were also covered.

 

The Premium beverage package covers only fountain sodas, not canned ones.

[MCC retired]

That is exactly what I am saying. My coffee cards got wet when the wallet I carried them in got wet. I took them to the passenger services desk to ask if I could get the damaged but still legible cards replaced with dry ones. The agent called the beverage manager who asked if I had purchased them aboard the Royal on this cruise. I said no. I was then told the policy had been changed and coffee cards were only good for the cruise on which they are purchased.

I can only speak about my experience. The policy may be enforced differently on other ships and at other times so I cannot help it if my experience sounds contrary to what others have experienced.

 

Well that explains it .

It was not that the CC from other cruises were not honored .

Damaged CC's were not honored .

[HUNKY]

It seems to me that the coffee cards are now use it or lose it. Sorry you didn't get to use them when you first did the exchange. Since you can afford a suite I wouldn't sweat having to pay more for bottles of wine and a few cans of soda. Maybe pick up a case of soda on the way to the port next time.

 

 

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[nukesubsailor]

You do know that when you booked under the Sip + Sail promotion you agreed from the beginning to receive the perks based on the rules in effect on date of sailing, not date of purchase:

 

https://www.princess.com/html/global/cruisedeals/sip-and-sail/

 

Princess Cruises may modify, amend or update the Terms and Conditions of this promotion at any time with or without notice to guests. A daily limit on alcoholic beverages will apply. The Terms and Conditions as published on the Princess Cruises website on the date of sailing will apply.

 

Regarding the coffee cards, yes I would be contacting corporate about that. But if the sole reason you booked under the inflated price of Sip + Sail was to use the 40% discount on wine bottles, once it was reduced to 25% (there was copious notice when the AIBP was changed to the PBP this past September) you could have re-fared to a "naked fare" (assuming your cabin category was not sold out) and potentially gotten more that the value of the PBP back. Or maybe been better off just cancelling if your cruise was going to turn into 20 sleepless nights followed by a rant on "demise of ethics" upon returning home.

 

Sorry if my considering this experience an example of a lack of ethics is considered a rant by you. I am sorry you make the false assumption that I spent 20 sleepless nights. The bed was great and we slept very well.

It just so happens that I believe a person is entitled to get what they are told they will get when they pay, not when the product is delivered. Just putting in a statement that the terms can change and will apply to existing purchases does not make the practice ethical in my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion.

Simply stating that the terms

[moki'smommy]

So were you told at the IC that the damaged cards could not be used? As in, did the barrista refuse to punch the card and give you a coffee? Or were you simply told that the damaged cards could not be replaced?

 

I sort of understand that they would not substitute a new card for an old one...maybe. But, if as you said, the old card was still legible, I don't understand why it couldn't be punched for specialty coffee.

[fishywood]

Did the beverage manager actually confiscate the waterlogged cards you presented? If not I would have taken a shot that either a beverage server in the Piazza who recognized you as a regular after a couple days, or your MDR wait team, would find a way to make them work. If so, well--expensive lesson learned: always start at the bottom where you are lot more likely to find a crew member eager to please rather than one who believes their job is to say "no" whenever presented the opportunity (definitely common to the purser's desk).

 

...and I apologize for misreading the last line of the opening post as staying up late nights (presumably due to displeasure of the situation) each night on the cruise rather than simply to compose your response to Princess. I was honestly thinking about another "devil's advocate" response to your coffee card dilemma but will just leave it. Only to add that after my solo B2B this summer I will be at 16 cruise credits. But with no expectations that any Elite benefits I will then be entitled to will be able to be accumulated to be used on a future cruise no matter how much the rules make it appear so. But I will now concede that anyone with those expectations has the right to express their disappointment how they wish.

[-Lew-]

IMHO coffee cards purchased onboard are subject to Federal Trade Commission laws on gift cards as outlined here. See the paragraph below from the FTC website:

 

Money on a gift card cannot expire for at least five years from the date the card was purchased, or from the last date any additional money was loaded onto the card. If the expiration date listed on the card is earlier than these dates, the money can be transferred to a replacement card at no cost.

[happy cruzer]

It's business. As such, write a businesslike letter. List the costs that you unexpectedly incurred and what you would like in replacement.

short and sweet, one item for extra wine expense, one for cost of the sodas, and one for the coffee you purchased, if you did not spend any money then put a reasonable value on the inconvenience. Ask for a onboard credit on a cruise that you have booked. Do a search or call to make sure you send it to the right person. If they don't make you happy, then vote with your feet. JMHO

[Optotronics]

Boy princess is really taking the excitement out of our cruise in a few weeks:(

First they remove the water package and then they do the right thing and return it.

Then they take away happy hour.

Now the coffee card I have with one punch on it is no longer valid??? Kind of like stealing $30 from me. I paid for my card, it wasn't a free perk. Last cruise we both got a coffee card, but just used the wife's card most of time. We got as far as using her entire card, but only one punch from mine.

I just looked at the terms printed on the back of the card and it states.

"Unused specialty coffees redeemable on next voyage. Complimentary coffe/tea only applicable to voyage of purchase."

I'm getting a feeling of dread as to what else is "at risk" of being lost in the remaining 3 weeks until our cruise.

This is wrong.

[voljeep]

IMHO coffee cards purchased onboard are subject to Federal Trade Commission laws on gift cards as outlined here. See the paragraph below from the FTC website:

Money on a gift card cannot expire for at least five years from the date the card was purchased, or from the last date any additional money was loaded onto the card. If the expiration date listed on the card is earlier than these dates, the money can be transferred to a replacement card at no cost.

 

 

well, Lew, in you humble opinion, should the employees of the cruise line be subject to minimum wage and overtime laws...:rolleyes:

[Hlitner]

We are also somewhat shocked to read the posts about coffee cards. Perhaps we should review and post exactly what is written on those old cards:

 

"Unused specialty coffees redeemable on next voyage. Complimentary coffee/tea only applicable to voyage of purchase"

 

These cards are defacto written contracts. Under contract law you have purchased (called "consideration" under law) the card and are entitled to the benefits as written on that card. While Princess has every write to change the terms of new cards or even eliminate the cards entirely, they are bound by the contractual terms of the previously issued cards.

 

We wonder if there is some misunderstanding on some ships....or if Princess is unilaterally breaking the terms of a contract. Perhaps the folks who have been denied the use of their cards need to send a polite (but firm) complaint directly to Jan Swartz's Office.

 

Hank

[Optotronics]

We are also somewhat shocked to read the posts about coffee cards. Perhaps we should review and post exactly what is written on those old cards:

 

"Unused specialty coffees redeemable on next voyage. Complimentary coffee/tea only applicable to voyage of purchase"

 

These cards are defacto written contracts. Under contract law you have purchased (called "consideration" under law) the card and are entitled to the benefits as written on that card. While Princess has every write to change the terms of new cards or even eliminate the cards entirely, they are bound by the contractual terms of the previously issued cards.

 

We wonder if there is some misunderstanding on some ships....or if Princess is unilaterally breaking the terms of a contract. Perhaps the folks who have been denied the use of their cards need to send a polite (but firm) complaint directly to Jan Swartz's Office.

 

Hank

I agree!

As for minimum wage and overtime, the crew signed contracts and they knew up front what they would paid.

Sure, pay them minimum wage and overtime... then subtract room and board from that....I think they are fairly compensated or they wouldn't be able to find a crew.

[fishywood]

OK I know I said I would shut up but this is getting a little nuts.

 

All you legal beagles need to note that the coffee cards in question were obtained by the OP by trading in his mini-bar set ups--not by a distinct monetary (or cash-equivalent) transaction for the advertised value(*).

 

In order to ascribe a transaction value (not a face value, as that is irrelevant) to the receipt of the card from Princess the OP would have to have a paper trail going back to on which specific cruise he facilitated the trade-in, and which cards were obtained in exchange for the Elite mini-bar versus obtained for the Suite mini-bar. Follow by proof that at the time of embarkation (not time of booking, but the precise time the OP was handed the cards) Princess was contractually obligated to provide such a perk under the terms of either booking a suite or the administrative terms of the Captains Circle membership organization, and there is a measurable transaction value (again, face value irrelevant) as a portion of the OP's original consideration (the cruise fare paid).

 

Bottom line is that legally the coffee card is just a piece of paper. If Princess wants to claim that those acquired not via cash purchase have no future value they not only have the right but the logic attempted to be applied in the above posts is actually on their side.

 

And I will just add that the OP post is not about money or entitlement. Just understandable disappointment at how the strict application of multiple cumulative policies comes across as so negative. Seems everyone on this board (including maybe myself in my first response) may have only seen the harsh language and not the legitimate frustration that was the intent of this report.

 

[(*)Which under contract law the ads for the coffee card on the website and/or in the cruise personalizer are not offers to sell at that price, just solicitations to inquire. Thus impossible to ascribe a value to one provided by trading in another item which has no listed value, not even in company advertising]

[-Lew-]

well, Lew, in you humble opinion, should the employees of the cruise line be subject to minimum wage and overtime laws...:rolleyes:

I don’t know why my post would prompt your off-topic submission. If you’re concerned, start a new thread.

[BabySarge]

After reading thru this thread and OP responses it is still unclear to me, nor do I see where the OP ever answered, if he actually went to the IC and ordered a specialty coffee/drink and the server(s) refused his card or was it simply that the Beverage Manager would not replace his cards.

 

There is a big difference between not being able to replace damaged cards and actually being refused or not allowed to use them when a beverage was ordered.

[PrincessLuver]

IMHO coffee cards purchased onboard are subject to Federal Trade Commission laws on gift cards as outlined here. See the paragraph below from the FTC website:

 

Money on a gift card cannot expire for at least five years from the date the card was purchased, or from the last date any additional money was loaded onto the card. If the expiration date listed on the card is earlier than these dates, the money can be transferred to a replacement card at no cost.

 

Princess ships are not registered in the US and do not fall under the FTC.....also they are subjected to international maritime laws....they can pretty much do what they want....:)

[centralcalicruzer]

You had old coffee cards that could now only be used for punches, not unlimited brewed coffee. If they had exchanged your wet ones for new, dry ones, theoretically they could have been used for unlimited brewed coffees as well as the punches. So, I kind of understand Princess's position on this. Personally, I would have just set my coffee cards out on the desk in my cabin until they dried out...

On another note, if you had the PBP, why did you even need new coffee cards? Everything from a coffee card is included in the PBP. Or were you hoping to use them on yet another cruise where you didn't have the PBP? And if you are Elite, won't you have the opportunity for two new cards every time you cruise if you choose to exchange your mini bar set up for them?

I'm with you on the wine purchase though, it IS disappointing because that worked well for us when my husband had the AIBP last year and I mostly drank the bottles of wine at 40% off. Although it sounds like you both had the PBP, wherein you could just order wine by the glass as part of the package, right?

[satxdiver]

Princess ships are flagged in Bahamas. As long as they are outside US territorial limits, then I do not see how US law would apply to what they do. We need a legal type to explain how international law, maritime law and US law work in conjunction with each other. Inquiring minds want to know.

[Thrak]

I can certainly understand not giving fresh-brewed coffee for the cards but there is no way I would have just accepted that the punches were no longer valid. Of course, as noted above, there is no need for a coffee card with the beverage package. On our last cruise (October/November 2017) I had the package as a promo. I also had two coffee cards with almost all of the punches left. (They were the older all brown cards.) I gave them to a dinner companion who was quite pleased to get them and had no difficulty using the punches.

 

If I was denied using the punches on a previous card I wouldn't accept having the desk person speak with management on the phone. I would insist on speaking with the manager in person. If I still didn't get satisfaction I would have gone to the Captain's Circle Host. I would also write to customerrelations@princesscruises.com as that is the proper email address to complain about this sort of thing. I have sent them email in the past and it was followed up with a phone call from Princess so I know that they do read the email and respond to it.

[Optotronics]

Princess ships are not registered in the US and do not fall under the FTC.....also they are subjected to international maritime laws....they can pretty much do what they want....:)

We bought our cards from the princess website which is in California (inside the states). If a card is purchased this way, FTC and state of California rules do apply.

I suppose that those cards that are purchased onboard may not be covered by US law. In either case the terms that are printed on the card should be adhered to by any company that operates "honestly".