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Journey2016

Club Royale revealed: How points are calculated

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In reference to my question in another thread, I just got off the phone with Club Royale, and they told me how points are supposed to be calculated, and I am convinced that the casinos onboard are not doing it correctly. Here is the answer:

 

You are supposed to earn 1 point for every $5 spent on slots. When it comes to craps, you are supposed to get 1 point for every 10 minutes you are gambling for each $5 wagered as your average bet.

 

Here is where I am convinced that the casino is shortchanging us. They told me that my wife had earned 16 points on the last cruise. They could not tell me how much she had wagered, only her point total. The thing is, she brought $200 to play slots, and lost all of it. Even if she had not won a single dime, this should have earned her 40 points. She won a few times and lost that money as well, plus I fronted her $200 to play craps with me on the last night of the cruise. We played for 2 hours, and I watched her bet the pass line, and once the point was set, she took odds and also a place bet on 6,8, and 10. By their math, she should have ended the cruise with at least 75 points. She got 16.

 

Similarly, I know my minimum bet was $25. In fact, for two nights I was on the table that had a $25 minimum bet (the second table had a $10 minimum). The total cruise, they say I earned only 684 points during the 23 hours I was at the table. What happened here was that the casino only gave me credit for playing $5 per roll of the dice, even though my average was FAR higher than that. Since it appears as though the the casino is not giving you credit for the amount wagered, the gambler who spends 10 hours at the table betting $5 per roll will earn more points than the gambler who bets $500 per roll for two hours.

Edited by Journey2016

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Thanks for the research. I agree that the accuracy of their table games on ratings is highly suspect. FYI, normally the odds bet in craps is not figured into any loyalty/comp calculation because there is no house advantage.

 

Knowing my losses from last year (that they gave me), and reverse engineering my Average bet into the ADT formula, my average bet times the amount of play would have been over 25,000 points (SIgnature) but they came up with 13,005 points (Prime)....way too big a disparity.

 

Maybe the calculations are slewed. Maybe the dealers aren't accurately inputting Average Bet numbers. Either way, loyal members are not being accurately rewarded

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We just got back from a 5 day cruise on the Independence. According to the pit boss, my average bet was $80. I was at the table for a total of 9 hours. On the last night alone, I was there for 1.5 hours. After I cashed out, I asked the casino host how many points I earned. He said 125 points. 

 

According the system as it is published in their Club Royale brochure, I should have earned 80 points per hour, meaning that I would have earned that 125 points on just the last night. I still do not understand how I am getting shafted on points. 

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We just got off of NAV and the casino host confirmed that they DEFINITELY consider losses when they calculate your rewards.  We had no appreciable losses on that cruise (Thanksgivingly) but we still had a good number of points given that it was a 5 night cruise.  He showed me the calculations but he did it so quickly that I couldn't really follow what he was doing (intentionally, I'm sure).  The only thing I remember was that his multiplying factor was 0.005.  That's all I remember !

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When we were on our last 7 night cruise, our daughter was with us and played Roulette for the 7 days, played for several hours each day & night, bets in the $50 range, and at the end of the week she checked with the host/hostess and ended up with right around 100 points. She did question her total number of points and was told this was all she earned. In the meantime, her dad & I played slots and received certificates for balconies. It certainly seems that table players are definitely not getting a fair shake with the points.

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Same thing happens on NCL.  Table player's points are not accurately tracked and under-reported in most cases.

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On 11/25/2018 at 4:56 PM, Bronx12 said:

When we were on our last 7 night cruise, our daughter was with us and played Roulette for the 7 days, played for several hours each day & night, bets in the $50 range, and at the end of the week she checked with the host/hostess and ended up with right around 100 points. She did question her total number of points and was told this was all she earned. In the meantime, her dad & I played slots and received certificates for balconies. It certainly seems that table players are definitely not getting a fair shake with the points.

My advice for Table games players is make friends with the Pit Bosses. Talk to them, make nice so that they KNOW YOUR FACE. Additionally, when you first start playing, your first few hands should be the MORE THAN YOUR normal average bet. This way that's what's going to be added into the computer. Do That EVERY TIME you see the Pit Boss surveying your table. Lastly, ALWAYS use CASH when starting a new playing session/table. DO NOT USE existing chips from another table or previous play. IF you have to cash out chips and BUY NEW CHIPS at the table when you get there.

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2 minutes ago, kwokpot said:

My advice for Table games players is make friends with the Pit Bosses. Talk to them, make nice so that they KNOW YOUR FACE. Additionally, when you first start playing, your first few hands should be the MORE THAN YOUR normal average bet. This way that's what's going to be added into the computer. Do That EVERY TIME you see the Pit Boss surveying your table. 

 

That didn't help. According to the pit boss, my average bet was $80. That means that they are not using the formula advertised to calculate points.

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On 12/1/2018 at 12:53 PM, kwokpot said:

My advice for Table games players is make friends with the Pit Bosses. Talk to them, make nice so that they KNOW YOUR FACE. Additionally, when you first start playing, your first few hands should be the MORE THAN YOUR normal average bet. This way that's what's going to be added into the computer. Do That EVERY TIME you see the Pit Boss surveying your table. Lastly, ALWAYS use CASH when starting a new playing session/table. DO NOT USE existing chips from another table or previous play. IF you have to cash out chips and BUY NEW CHIPS at the table when you get there.

Not sure where you got that you should use cash rather than chips when you sit down at the table.  That makes no sense.  It’s all the same.  The dealer enters the cash value of your chips or cash.  

 

 

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12 minutes ago, sellwingri said:

Not sure where you got that you should use cash rather than chips when you sit down at the table.  That makes no sense.  It’s all the same.  The dealer enters the cash value of your chips or cash.  

 

 

That's NOT THE CASE in a land based casino. This is what I was told my a pit boss told me. Chips are entered into the computer as CHIPS IN and NOT CASH IN.

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4 hours ago, kwokpot said:

That's NOT THE CASE in a land based casino. This is what I was told my a pit boss told me. Chips are entered into the computer as CHIPS IN and NOT CASH IN.

 

When I gamble in Vegas at the MGM casinos, they track my play VERY accurately. They even have an accurate tally of wins/losses for my play in MGM casinos. It doesn't matter if I chip in or cash in.

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Something is very flawed in their system and more than likely varies ship to ship. When i was on the Allure this past August I asked the casino host about how points were accumulate because I was a few points short of a discount on a next cruise, she told me for every $5.00 wagered in slots is 1 point and for tables it was for every $25.00 wagered is 1 point.

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At the risk of offending the table games players here, this is the reason why we always play slots. Tracking is completely electronic, and we've never felt that we've been shorted points on any of our cruises. But the bottom line here is that you can't just go around the corner to another casino where the pit bosses do a better job of rating you, so you're stuck with whatever they do at the tables, good, indifferent, or bad. 

 

(And I'm not trying to start a conversation of table vs slots....I agree that everyone deserves to play the games they like, and be rated accurately for their play) 

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On 12/3/2018 at 12:42 PM, kwokpot said:

That's NOT THE CASE in a land based casino. This is what I was told my a pit boss told me. Chips are entered into the computer as CHIPS IN and NOT CASH IN.

I thought we were talking about casinos on ships?  Cash is the same as chips on Royal Caribbean.  

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On 12/15/2018 at 3:03 PM, VideoTech said:

At the risk of offending the table games players here, this is the reason why we always play slots. Tracking is completely electronic, and we've never felt that we've been shorted points on any of our cruises. But the bottom line here is that you can't just go around the corner to another casino where the pit bosses do a better job of rating you, so you're stuck with whatever they do at the tables, good, indifferent, or bad. 

 

(And I'm not trying to start a conversation of table vs slots....I agree that everyone deserves to play the games they like, and be rated accurately for their play) 

 

Slots players certainly have the upperhand here. The thing I don't like is that all i'm doing is pushing a button over and over. Whereas when I play table games I feel a bit of a challenge and my actions have a direct impact on if I win or lose. That's why I prefer table games over slots.

 

Also, casinos like slots better because the house has a much bigger advantage on them. If you play blackjack correctly the house has about a 1% advantage.

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So I did some experimenting during my last cruise. (The sacrifices I make- go figure). Here is what happened:

 

Allure of the Seas: 7 day cruise Dec 2018:

Gambled $175 on slots, kept pushing button until money ran out. This earned me 56 points. Works out to $3.13 per point. 

I also played Craps for 8.5 hours. My average bet was $100. I lost a total of $2400, earning 634 points. This cost $3.79 per point. 

Doing the math, if I had played the $2400 on slots, I would have wound up with 766 points instead of 634. 

 

When I was on the Independence in November, I was at the Craps table for 9 hours and an average bet of $80, earning 125 points for the $1000 I lost at the tables. The cost there was $8.00 per point.

 

When I was on the Symphony in June, I was betting the same as always, and I won about $3800 on the trip. 23 hours in the casino, and earned 684 points. 

 

Here are my conclusions:

Winning or losing doesn't matter when it comes to earning points.

The way that points are awarded seems to be rather inconsistent. 

Dollar for dollar, slots earn points at about 20% lower cost than tables. Without knowing the odds of winning at the slots, I can't tell you which is more effective. I do know the odds of winning at craps is 48.6%. 

 

Either way, I have gambled with $6,000 on RCCL cruises in 2018, winning $400 and a total of 1,374 points, plus a total of $700 in cruise certificates. The people saying that they are getting free cruises are either gambling with way more money than I can afford, or they are lying. Under the old CR system, I was getting free drinks and free cruise offers. Since they revamped the system, all of that has gone away. I get much better comps in Vegas with MGM than I do with CR.

 

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On 12/31/2018 at 4:46 PM, Journey2016 said:

So I did some experimenting during my last cruise. (The sacrifices I make- go figure). Here is what happened:

 

Allure of the Seas: 7 day cruise Dec 2018:

Gambled $175 on slots, kept pushing button until money ran out. This earned me 56 points. Works out to $3.13 per point. 

I also played Craps for 8.5 hours. My average bet was $100. I lost a total of $2400, earning 634 points. This cost $3.79 per point. 

Doing the math, if I had played the $2400 on slots, I would have wound up with 766 points instead of 634. 

 

When I was on the Independence in November, I was at the Craps table for 9 hours and an average bet of $80, earning 125 points for the $1000 I lost at the tables. The cost there was $8.00 per point.

 

When I was on the Symphony in June, I was betting the same as always, and I won about $3800 on the trip. 23 hours in the casino, and earned 684 points. 

 

Here are my conclusions:

Winning or losing doesn't matter when it comes to earning points.

The way that points are awarded seems to be rather inconsistent. 

Dollar for dollar, slots earn points at about 20% lower cost than tables. Without knowing the odds of winning at the slots, I can't tell you which is more effective. I do know the odds of winning at craps is 48.6%. 

 

Either way, I have gambled with $6,000 on RCCL cruises in 2018, winning $400 and a total of 1,374 points, plus a total of $700 in cruise certificates. The people saying that they are getting free cruises are either gambling with way more money than I can afford, or they are lying. Under the old CR system, I was getting free drinks and free cruise offers. Since they revamped the system, all of that has gone away. I get much better comps in Vegas with MGM than I do with CR.

 

 

 

I have a comp cruise thru UrComped in 2 weeks. I’ll start off at craps and see how many points I get with 1 hour of play. If I feel like I’m getting screwed I’ll just pocket the rest of the money I had budgeted for gambling and enjoy my cruise & free drinks on them. If they want to screw us on comps then I just won’t gamble. We can’t go to another casino, but they can’t just wait until other gamblers come in either...not until the following week.

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23 hours ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

 

I have a comp cruise thru UrComped in 2 weeks. I’ll start off at craps and see how many points I get with 1 hour of play. If I feel like I’m getting screwed I’ll just pocket the rest of the money I had budgeted for gambling and enjoy my cruise & free drinks on them. If they want to screw us on comps then I just won’t gamble. We can’t go to another casino, but they can’t just wait until other gamblers come in either...not until the following week.

 

I also have my first UrComped Royal Caribbean trip planned in February and I usually play craps but from the sounds of it, it seems that it will be difficult to play enough to get the points required for future cruises.

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On 12/26/2018 at 10:23 PM, DaCruiseBug said:

 

Slots players certainly have the upperhand here. The thing I don't like is that all i'm doing is pushing a button over and over. Whereas when I play table games I feel a bit of a challenge and my actions have a direct impact on if I win or lose. That's why I prefer table games over slots.

 

Also, casinos like slots better because the house has a much bigger advantage on them. If you play blackjack correctly the house has about a 1% advantage.

 

I agree with you completely - it's one reason why for a long time, my slots play was Video Poker. You know what the payback % of the game is, and there's an element of skill in playing correctly, every hand. But of course, the casinos penalize VP players (twice the coin-in for one point vs slots) because we know the payback % of the game. They claim this makes us "advantage players" even though it's no different than knowing the correct play on every hand of Blackjack. 

 

But since it's now almost impossible to find decent pay VP - and it's never been possible in ship's casino's - I've cut way back on my VP play.

 

Another reason the house loves slots is that there's no cost to operate them, beyond the electricity required to run them and the salary of a tech to do maintenance!!

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On 1/4/2019 at 8:51 AM, Mallow said:

 

I also have my first UrComped Royal Caribbean trip planned in February and I usually play craps but from the sounds of it, it seems that it will be difficult to play enough to get the points required for future cruises.

I've always wondered about UrComped. My husband gambles a fair bit. I mean, wherever we travel, if there's a casino nearby, chances are we'll hit it. Is UrComped really worth it?

 

Anyway, as to the topic, here's what we've noticed about the RCCL casino and points: We seem to build up points much more quickly on the slots than on the table games. We have no hard stats on that, but it's just something we've both noticed. In fact, we were asking the RCCL casino host about points once (we were close to a balcony certificate rather than an interior and it was nearing the end of the cruise), and she told us we were better off trying to get the last few points on the slots rather than the table games. Her exact words: "Blackjack's not going to help you."

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On 2/6/2019 at 2:21 PM, fla gang said:

How many points to become Signature?

Signature starts at 25,000 points up 99,000 points. Here's the breakdown of tier levels:

 

Choice: 1 - 2,499

Prime: 2,500 - 24,999

Signature: 25,000-99,999

Masters: 100,000+

Edited by Life is Good Cruising

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