Europa 2 -v- Seabourn Odyssey

[marama]

Thank you for an interesting thread and some very helpful information from those who have contributed. We have also been put off by the high prices and reduced social interaction. Ditto the paying for drinks - but it is good to know that there is no signing each time. She sounds a beautiful ship and we may have to try her sometime if we can find the right itinerary/price, if only to satisfy our curiosity. For the moment however, we have a reluctance to pay quite a bit more for what appears to be less - in particular, having to pay for soft drinks and water with meals, which seems very cheeky of HL and also penny-pinching, given the very high per diem. It does not create a very good first impression - with us, at any rate.

[English Voyager]

Thank you for an interesting thread and some very helpful information from those who have contributed. We have also been put off by the high prices and reduced social interaction. Ditto the paying for drinks - but it is good to know that there is no signing each time. She sounds a beautiful ship and we may have to try her sometime if we can find the right itinerary/price, if only to satisfy our curiosity. For the moment however, we have a reluctance to pay quite a bit more for what appears to be less - in particular, having to pay for soft drinks and water with meals, which seems very cheeky of HL and also penny-pinching, given the very high per diem. It does not create a very good first impression - with us, at any rate.

 

The explanation provided by HL for not including drinks, other than the beer, and soft drinks, in the stateroom, is that it permits them to offer a much wider selection--- over 450 varieties of wine, and over 250 varieties of spirits.

 

Prices are reasonable, and there is no service charge.

 

You may find the following video to be of interest:

 

[2SailingNomads]

Cigarette smoke on neighbouring verandas was a real problem for us in the past as well.

 

Far be it for me to knock Europa as I have never tried it. However, with 14 cruises on Seabourn I can honestly say that we have never had a bad or unsatisfactory one. As the saying goes, 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. So we will be staying loyal to Seabourn, looking forward to our next cruise in December and to seeing friends and acquaintances who we know will be on-board.

 

I agree totally with the above. We will shortly be boarding for our 15th Seabourn cruise and if we had not been happy would not be continuing to cruise with them. Everyone has their particular preferences and likes / dislikes so no one product will satisfy everyone.

[vistaman]

Ovener ,

i am happy for you ms Europa 2 is matching your expectations !

i did 16 cruises on SB and the Odyssey was for sure my worsest on SB - it was in 2010 , later i did one Quest what was very good followed by also a bad Sojourn where it became very clear too many cutbacks were done in the F and B operations - like no fresh orange juice , poor cheeses and cold cuts for breakfast very poor canapes prosecco on parties - quite a difference with the original triplets. ( 13 great cruises on Pride and Legend )

Speaking French as well i did shopping with the chef and he really had to watch his budget .

Free drinks and wines on SB : i very rarely drink the complimentary wines and even with my status discount the special wines are a lot more expensive as on Hapag Lloyd especially special champagnes .

concerning the smoking : i never smoked so i avoid the areas - also the Collins - on Crystal i do not go to Connoisseurs Club neither .

yes for Europa 2 i have to book extremely early but being a single the supplement is not 75 or 100 % as on SB - of course i am not in a penthouse :D

the language is not an issue - i am even listened as "german speaking"

and i do not have problems to pay a small amount for a better mineral water - i hate that iced water out of carafes .

i moved to Hapag Lloyd after Crystal decided to go all inclusive with - for me - far too substantial items changed. I thought in 2007 my first Europa was a once in a life experience and exception for a usual "cheap" cruise in spring caused by the fact the 2 europa sisters are in too hot and humid areas i stay on Hapag Lloyd .

In 2010 on the Odyssey on day 3 i wanted to complain to the hotel director who refused to receive me ( it was the time of the unilatteraly closing down of main dining room for both breakfast and lunch )

In 2 days i sent 3 dishes back and endured problems with the stewardess who was "very looking forward to the end of her contract " :(

I agree on the quality of caviar what is vere good on Hapag Lloyd - the chefs were very generous on the display in the Yacht Club. and complimentary wodka as well.

I noticed a few times on Europa 2 passengers with issues are received by the hotel director in the atrium on short notice.

The language and the absence of a casino and another approach of entertainment ( no trivia ) is maybe an issue for US people i must agree on it.

I am just back from Cyprus to Venice on Europa 2 - what was excellent once again.

The officials and the private security in Venice were simply rude even horrible but that is not the mistake of Hapag Lloyd

I only intend to go back on a SB at a very stupid cheap fare .

[Sunprince]

When you go to the HL website and try to book a cruise, they ask you how many adults, children and then separately ask how many babies per cabin...when I saw that I thought, never would I book this cruise line. Any line catering to “babies” is not for me, I don’t care how spacious, nice or luxurious the ship is. And then you need to integrate yourself into the German culture.

 

 

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[MJN1]

Certainly am! Looking forward to some beautiful Greek weather then and revisiting some time of the places in the Cyclades I visited on a tighter Island Hopping budget 34 years ago (on £10 a day)! Hope to see you then.

 

 

Ovener,

there is a (rather inactive) roll-call for that cruise in case you would like to join-in.

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2587539

Looking forward to see you on board!

[Ovener]

We had a great sea day yesterday, with first class activities:

- An excellent lobster cookery course (in a pristine, dedicated, cookery school on Deck 9). A Hapag Lloyd director apparently said that the whole point of Europa 2 is ‘wasting space’. It’s amazing this facility is only used three times in a twelve day cruise!

- A (free and very generous) gin tasting course in the afternoon.

- A tour of the bridge.

- A terrific lecture with slides about Sicily (for just the two of us in English) by a resident UNESCO lecturer.

- Lisa, the excellent international hostess on this cruise accompanied me to the first two courses to translate. She is amazing fun, warm and helpful.

Some more observations:

Crew and staff bend over backwards to be nice to international guests and make sure we are well treated. I suspect as there are only a dozen of us on a ship with just over 500 guests we are spoiled a bit. Overall the warmth of welcome is a bit better than Seabourn.

The Colonnade on Odyssey wins for availability of outside tables. They are almost always all snapped up at the Yacht Club on Europa 2 for every meal (mysteriously before official opening time…

Seabourn wins for evening meal service time. We had another frustratingly slow dinner in the Tarragon speciality restaurant last night (but staff were very friendly). We’ve heard reports of slow service in the MDR Weltemeere too. I suspect it’s because most people arrive at opening time. We’re switching to eating at speciality restaurants at lunchtime as they are calmer and quicker then…and seeing if eating a little later at the Yacht Club yields dividends. The lunch we had today at the Asian Elements restaurant was the best meal we have ever had at sea. Light with top quality ingredients. No expense is spared.

Swimming in the pool this afternoon in the sun and a sudden shower was forecast . The roof of the magradome slides across, the heavens open and we can still swim and lie on loungers in a beautiful, triple heighted airy space. Europa 2 wins hands down for its pool deck. Great fresh waffles and drinks provided in the afternoon too.

Seabourn is better for adult-only cruising / Europa 2 better for families with children (of which there are quite a few). Young children are very well looked after by very caring staff with terrific facilities (and have separate dining)… Currently sitting by the pool at a dedicated children’s hour and all are very well behaved. Nice to see a lot of grandparents / parents / kids using this as a get-together cruise. There are probably 20 or so children under ten on board.

We were very impressed by the variety / cabaret night in the Theatre with dancing, acrobats and singing. Much more professional than a Seabourn show, in a much better double- heighted space with no columns and a giant LED backdrop. Coming soon…a BMX stunt cyclist and a classical pianist. So a great selection of entertainment.

If you suffer from FOMO, Seabourn might be better - there was a German comedian in the main theatre last night; and with World Cup coverage in German and three soccer experts all from Germany as part of the enrichment. However, they kindly put on alternative smaller events for international guests.

Fellow passengers and more formal and reserved than on Seabourn, so any conversation is just short pleasantries. As we keep ourselves to ourselves a bit that’s fine by us, but we appreciate for many Seabourn customers that may be a huge turn off.

 

[Isklaar]

We had a great sea day yesterday, with first class activities:

- An excellent lobster cookery course (in a pristine, dedicated, cookery school on Deck 9). A Hapag Lloyd director apparently said that the whole point of Europa 2 is ‘wasting space’. It’s amazing this facility is only used three times in a twelve day cruise!

- A (free and very generous) gin tasting course in the afternoon.

- A tour of the bridge.

- A terrific lecture with slides about Sicily (for just the two of us in English) by a resident UNESCO lecturer.

- Lisa, the excellent international hostess on this cruise accompanied me to the first two courses to translate. She is amazing fun, warm and helpful.

Some more observations:

Crew and staff bend over backwards to be nice to international guests and make sure we are well treated. I suspect as there are only a dozen of us on a ship with just over 500 guests we are spoiled a bit. Overall the warmth of welcome is a bit better than Seabourn.

The Colonnade on Odyssey wins for availability of outside tables. They are almost always all snapped up at the Yacht Club on Europa 2 for every meal (mysteriously before official opening time…

Seabourn wins for evening meal service time. We had another frustratingly slow dinner in the Tarragon speciality restaurant last night (but staff were very friendly). We’ve heard reports of slow service in the MDR Weltemeere too. I suspect it’s because most people arrive at opening time. We’re switching to eating at speciality restaurants at lunchtime as they are calmer and quicker then…and seeing if eating a little later at the Yacht Club yields dividends. The lunch we had today at the Asian Elements restaurant was the best meal we have ever had at sea. Light with top quality ingredients. No expense is spared.

Swimming in the pool this afternoon in the sun and a sudden shower was forecast . The roof of the magradome slides across, the heavens open and we can still swim and lie on loungers in a beautiful, triple heighted airy space. Europa 2 wins hands down for its pool deck. Great fresh waffles and drinks provided in the afternoon too.

Seabourn is better for adult-only cruising / Europa 2 better for families with children (of which there are quite a few). Young children are very well looked after by very caring staff with terrific facilities (and have separate dining)… Currently sitting by the pool at a dedicated children’s hour and all are very well behaved. Nice to see a lot of grandparents / parents / kids using this as a get-together cruise. There are probably 20 or so children under ten on board.

We were very impressed by the variety / cabaret night in the Theatre with dancing, acrobats and singing. Much more professional than a Seabourn show, in a much better double- heighted space with no columns and a giant LED backdrop. Coming soon…a BMX stunt cyclist and a classical pianist. So a great selection of entertainment.

If you suffer from FOMO, Seabourn might be better - there was a German comedian in the main theatre last night; and with World Cup coverage in German and three soccer experts all from Germany as part of the enrichment. However, they kindly put on alternative smaller events for international guests.

Fellow passengers and more formal and reserved than on Seabourn, so any conversation is just short pleasantries. As we keep ourselves to ourselves a bit that’s fine by us, but we appreciate for many Seabourn customers that may be a huge turn off.

 

 

Your posts have been interesting and very helpful to me. I'm still open to trying Europa 2 or the newer ships once they're launched, it's just that pesky early booking system that will hinder me for the next couple of years.

 

As for football commentary in a different language, given the level of punditry these days, it may not be a bad thing to not understand a word of what they're saying. ;)

[English Voyager]

Your posts have been interesting and very helpful to me. I'm still open to trying Europa 2 or the newer ships once they're launched, it's just that pesky early booking system that will hinder me for the next couple of years.

 

Even more frustrating for me as a solo passenger is HL's policy of only making available a handful of staterooms for solo occupancy.

[Isklaar]

Even more frustrating for me as a solo passenger is HL's policy of only making available a handful of staterooms for solo occupancy.

 

Oh in that case this is likely an issue for me too. I sail solo probably two thirds of the time, my partner has even tighter work restrictions than I do.

[English Voyager]

Ovener,

 

who is the Captain on your Europa 2 cruise?

 

On one of my cruises I was the only English speaking passenger on board, and yet the Captain still gave his noon addresses from the bridge in English, as did the on-board lecturer when cruising into/past points of special interest.

[marama]

The explanation provided by HL for not including drinks, other than the beer, and soft drinks, in the stateroom, is that it permits them to offer a much wider selection--- over 450 varieties of wine, and over 250 varieties of spirits.

 

Prices are reasonable, and there is no service charge.

 

You may find the following video to be of interest:

 

 

 

 

English Voyager, I agree with you that the non-inclusive alcohol is not a big problem, but I was referring to the charges for soft drinks and water outside the room - even at mealtimes. It just looks cheap and as I said, downright cheeky when HL are charging so much. I am guessing that being a child-friendly line may have something to do with it.

[English Voyager]

English Voyager, I agree with you that the non-inclusive alcohol is not a big problem, but I was referring to the charges for soft drinks and water outside the room - even at mealtimes. It just looks cheap and as I said, downright cheeky when HL are charging so much. I am guessing that being a child-friendly line may have something to do with it.

 

I was told that it is the German custom to charge for bottled water at meals.

 

Apparently, iced tea is provided free of charge, and certainly bottled water is when disembarking for excursions.

Edited June 17, 2018 by English Voyager

[English Voyager]

Ovener,

 

Any weeping and gnashing of teeth on board at Germany having lost to Mexico?

 

The first time Germany has lost an opening match since 1982.

[Isklaar]

Ovener,

 

Any weeping and gnashing of teeth on board at Germany having lost to Mexico?

 

The first time Germany has lost an opening match since 1982.

 

There was quite a bit of weeping and gnashing of teeth on the pitch at the final whistle! Will be interesting to hear from Ovener about the reaction onboard.

[Robisan]

Ovener,

 

Any weeping and gnashing of teeth on board at Germany having lost to Mexico?

 

The first time Germany has lost an opening match since 1982.

Assume they have a launch manned and ready to rescue any jumpers...

[vistaman]

Englishvoyager,

during my cruise Cyprus to Venice it was cpt Wolter and he told me he stays on for next one - the actual - cruise as well.

 

Concerning the mineral water - a small charge for a decent mineral water Evian, Perrier Gerolsteiner or Pellegrino is not an issue for me. On some all inclussive lines if you are not wanting the "iced water" and ask for sparkling - i had the impression i was asking for something special... And a particular luxury line changed to much cheaper brands as soon they went all inclusive.

 

About the world championships : 2 years ago it were the European and i was on board during Italy Germany -

i got some angry looks as i was a bit too enthusiastic about the music of the Italian anthem "Fratelli d'Italia"

the German anthem is composed by Haydn

free white wine and German snacks were provided during that match - i cannot remember the result anymore. :D

[English Voyager]

Assume they have a launch manned and ready to rescue any jumpers...

 

Rumour has it that a highly qualified Counsellor is being flown in.

[Emperor Norton]

I guess as an American I’m weirded out with paying for water. Period. Perrier or San Pelligrinio or Evian or Fuji are all included on the American all inclusives.

 

 

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[English Voyager]

Englishvoyager,

during my cruise Cyprus to Venice it was cpt Wolter and he told me he stays on for next one - the actual - cruise as well.

 

Concerning the mineral water - a small charge for a decent mineral water Evian, Perrier Gerolsteiner or Pellegrino is not an issue for me. On some all inclussive lines if you are not wanting the "iced water" and ask for sparkling - i had the impression i was asking for something special... And a particular luxury line changed to much cheaper brands as soon they went all inclusive.

 

About the world championships : 2 years ago it were the European and i was on board during Italy Germany -

i got some angry looks as i was a bit too enthusiastic about the music of the Italian anthem "Fratelli d'Italia"

the German anthem is composed by Haydn

free white wine and German snacks were provided during that match - i cannot remember the result anymore. :D

 

Thank you for confirming the Captain.

 

My first cruise in 2014 coincided with the World Cup.

 

The Jazz Club was reserved for TV broadcasts of secondary matches, while broadcasts of premier matches especially those involving Germany were shown in the Theatre.

[Catlover54]

When you go to the HL website and try to book a cruise, they ask you how many adults, children and then separately ask how many babies per cabin...when I saw that I thought, never would I book this cruise line. Any line catering to “babies” is not for me, I don’t care how spacious, nice or luxurious the ship is. And then you need to integrate yourself into the German culture.

 

 

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The line does not “cater to babies” simply because it asks how many babies will be pax as opposed to “children” who are 16. They need to know exactly who is trying to get on board, as there is not only a strict limit to the number of toddlers allowed, but prices are different depending on age.

They also limit how many cabins are available to solos in advance ( which irks EV and others) even if you are ready to pay higher rates on some very choice cruises.

 

The MS Europa, the sister ship I just got off of ( older people) had one baby on board out of 344 pax, whom I did not notice until day 10 when the mom quietly hovered in the hall outside a concert so as not to disturb it in case the kid started howling, There was also a six-year-old who acted much older and I think that was it unless they hid in their rooms. The last cruise crew said there were zero children.

 

Europa 2 is bigger and designed to be more affluent family friendly as it offers a few adjoining family suites, separate family dining areas, nannies, a play room, a teen room, and excursions specific for (well-to-do) families at times kids are out of school. On my Africa Christmas cruise of 516 pax there were 44 kids, which crew said was high ( presumably see all the animals) half of whom were teens, and only a couple toddlers, and amazingly most all kids were well-behaved and had separate swim times. Last October NY to Nassau on the E2 I remember no kids.

 

As for German culture, they do indeed like to be precise and exact about most things, not just the counting types of pax ( they are always on time for excursions, for example) and are more reserved, especially if they are older, definitely not ideal for everybody ( though there is a spectrum of personalities).

[Catlover54]

Ovener, you mention difficulty getting an outdoor seat in the Yacht Club at lunch and that seats are “mysteriously” taken.

1. Note a few tables can be reserved by highest paying guests if they want one, very few.

2. But I checked when I saw this and found out every pax has a right to come early and take an outdoor seat of his choice, before official time opening, but there will just be no waiter or food service until official opening right on time. This is better than locked doors and people lining up on nice days at Colonnade to get outdoor seats.

I came early a few times and just sat, talking.

No mystery.

[Ovener]

Yes, there were quite a few upset people over the football, but they got over it as the night went on. We watched part of the second half which was HD streamed to the two story high LED screen in the main theatre (very impressive) with about 150 people watching and snacks provided. The Captain is indeed Captain Wolter...we were kindly invited to the bridge last night to watch the ship leave Messina ... managed to see a few water pipe mini-tornadoes on the way out. And thanks for the tips about the Yacht Club Catlover54! Today zodiacs will be deployed off Lipari, so looking forward to that.

[marama]

I was told that it is the German custom to charge for bottled water at meals.

 

Apparently, iced tea is provided free of charge, and certainly bottled water is when disembarking for excursions.

 

 

Thank you, that makes a difference. Iced tea will do fine for us!

[Camillus112]

Question, can you ask for tap water? Will it be charged? Europa2, of course.