Sandra Smudger Posted August 3, 2018 #1 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I would love to see cruise ships being built in the UK or the US. Both of these countries used to have excellent ship building industries in the past and I would like to see them resurrected. Anyone agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John Bull Posted August 3, 2018 #2 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Sadly, with the notable exceptions of warships and luxury boats, the UK no longer has either the infrastructure or the skilled workforce for ship-building. JB :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sail7seas Posted August 3, 2018 #3 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I think it is ditto for U.S and only naval vessels and private yachts are built here now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Essiesmom Posted August 3, 2018 #4 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I think it is ditto for U.S and only naval vessels and private yachts are built here now. And the ships of American Cruise Lines, and American Queen Steamboat Company. EM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare VMax1700 Posted August 3, 2018 #5 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I would love to see cruise ships being built in the UK or the US. Both of these countries used to have excellent ship building industries in the past and I would like to see them resurrected. Anyone agree? Excellent choice of words! That is exactly what it would take to get ship building going again in these areas. We will see Chinese built vessels before the resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Smudger Posted August 3, 2018 Author #6 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Excellent choice of words! That is exactly what it would take to get ship building going again in these areas. We will see Chinese built vessels before the resurrection. I saw the Chinese ship Genting Dream recently and was told it was built in Germany for the Chinese. I bet they'll now copy it and build them in China from now on. With a can do attitude we can do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby114 Posted August 3, 2018 #7 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I personally don’t think that the United States or Great Britain are capable of building cruise ships at this time. I also think that if they were they would be priced higher than the current companies that now build them. Great Britain’s steel production is a thing of the past. United States steel production is down considerably too. Germany, Finland, France, and Italy will continue to build the modern cruise ships that cross the great oceans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted August 3, 2018 #8 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I can't speak for the UK, but the US shipbuilding industry is limited due to costs being noncompetitive with the rest of the world. We do build some ships, for the Jones Act cargo trade, and the PVSA passenger trade, but even then, quite a lot of content in these ships comes from overseas. The last large passenger vessel built in the US was NCL's Pride of America, which was started for another cruise line in Pascagoula, MS, and when that company went bankrupt after 9/11, NCL bought it and took it to Germany for completion. Even shipyards in the US that are building commercial ships do not have the expertise, nor is there the infrastructure to have cabin modules built cost effectively in the US, so there will be no major cruise vessels built in the US for the foreseeable future. It costs about twice as much to build a tanker in the US as it does to build the same ship overseas, and that is just a ship costing a few million dollars. The cost to build a cruise vessel that costs nearly a billion dollars overseas would just not be cost effective, especially with today's business model of keeping cruise fares low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retafcruiser Posted August 3, 2018 #9 Share Posted August 3, 2018 It costs about twice as much to build a tanker in the US as it does to build the same ship overseas, and that is just a ship costing a few million dollars. The cost to build a cruise vessel that costs nearly a billion dollars overseas would just not be cost effective, especially with today's business model of keeping cruise fares low. Don't the overseas ship builders also receive government subsidies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruising cockroach Posted August 3, 2018 #10 Share Posted August 3, 2018 As for the U.K., ship building capacity has long gone. De-industrialisation by neglect due to the laissez-faire policy of a government that reigned throughout the '80s to concentrate by default on banking, retail and property. FWIW, I predict the civil aeronaut sector will disappear before long too. I think there could be U.S. production (especially cabin modules) can be done in the southern states which pretty much pay close to developing country wages. However, the learning curve to get there, plus the capital expenditure for a small and limited volume is probably not worth while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulanis Posted August 3, 2018 #11 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Germany, Finland, France, and Italy will continue to build the modern cruise ships that cross the great oceans. Not all of them though: Diamond Princess and Sapphire Princess were both built in Nagasaki, Japan by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. and that is pretty close to China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted August 3, 2018 #12 Share Posted August 3, 2018 A large majority of the world's cargo ships are built in Asia (China and Korea), but these ships come with acknowledged less than ideal quality components, and so shipowners know that repair/replacement of things like valves and piping will happen within a few years, and budget accordingly. Cruise ships strive for a "zero downtime" operation, meaning that everything is always running or ready in standby, except for planned maintenance, and so they wish to hold the shipbuilders to a higher standard. That is why the European yards build most of the cruise ships, while the Asian yards build the cargo ships. About 15-20% of a cargo ship's cost is in the valves in the various piping systems. All ships built in Asia use the JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard), which while using the metric system, is slightly different than Europe's DIN standard. The problem is that the Japanese no longer manufacture JIS valves, and the only manufacturers are Korean. At the start of my career, an engineer spent long hours repairing leaking valves, but today with Korean made JIS valves, you don't waste time, you throw them out and put a new one in. Japanese shipyards do a better job than the rest of Asia, but then again, their prices are approaching those of the European yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted August 3, 2018 #13 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Don't the overseas ship builders also receive government subsidies? Not all of them, and not in the way that US folks think of subsidies. And building a US flag ship in a US yard would qualify the shipowner for a loan guarantee/preferential rate from the US government as a subsidy. And up until Reagan, there were subsidies for building US flag ships equal to the difference between building it in the US and building it abroad, and our shipbuilding base still declined (these subsidies started before WWII). Fifteen years ago, the average age of shipyard workers in the US was 45, with 33% being over 50. That trend has continued since then, and few young workers want the hard work, hard conditions, tough hours, and poor weather of a shipyard job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calliopecruiser Posted August 3, 2018 #14 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I saw the Chinese ship Genting Dream recently and was told it was built in Germany for the Chinese. I bet they'll now copy it and build them in China from now on. With a can do attitude we can do anything. ROTFLMAO. You think that's all it takes? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Tillie Posted August 3, 2018 #15 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I saw the Chinese ship Genting Dream recently and was told it was built in Germany for the Chinese. I bet they'll now copy it and build them in China from now on. With a can do attitude we can do anything. The shipyard where it was built is owned by Genting! Why do you think Genting bought a German shipyard?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybankerteacher Posted August 3, 2018 #16 Share Posted August 3, 2018 It may be part of a trend: fewer and fewer things done in the US, while we continually spend more than we earn. More and more of our assets will be sold off to maintain style of living beyond our means. It is not inconceivable that, in a few generations, young Americans will have to seek employment as cabin stewards on East Asian cruise ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted August 3, 2018 #17 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The shipyard where it was built is owned by Genting! Why do you think Genting bought a German shipyard?? Huh? Meyer Werft is family owned, since 1795. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donaldsc Posted August 3, 2018 #18 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Cost. DON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruising cockroach Posted August 3, 2018 #19 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Huh? Meyer Werft is family owned, since 1795. Looks like it bought MV Werften which became/combined into Lloyd Werft. Only small and river ships for now. https://www.dw.com/en/genting-and-its-very-own-german-shipyards/av-39240120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Host Hattie Posted August 3, 2018 #20 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Great Britain’s steel production is a thing of the past. As a british steel worker, I am pleased to say that statement is incorrect. We are proud to export our steel around the world, including the USA. Not for cruise ships obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sail7seas Posted August 3, 2018 #21 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I can't speak for the UK, but the US shipbuilding industry is limited due to costs being noncompetitive with the rest of the world. We do build some ships, for the Jones Act cargo trade, and the PVSA passenger trade, but even then, quite a lot of content in these ships comes from overseas. The last large passenger vessel built in the US was NCL's Pride of America, which was started for another cruise line in Pascagoula, MS, and when that company went bankrupt after 9/11, NCL bought it and took it to Germany for completion. Even shipyards in the US that are building commercial ships do not have the expertise, nor is there the infrastructure to have cabin modules built cost effectively in the US, so there will be no major cruise vessels built in the US for the foreseeable future. It costs about twice as much to build a tanker in the US as it does to build the same ship overseas, and that is just a ship costing a few million dollars. The cost to build a cruise vessel that costs nearly a billion dollars overseas would just not be cost effective, especially with today's business model of keeping cruise fares low. Isn't that why she is excepted from pVSA and can sail from U.S. Hawaii tport to another Hawaii port? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chengkp75 Posted August 3, 2018 #22 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Isn't that why she is excepted from pVSA and can sail from U.S. Hawaii tport to another Hawaii port? Well, technically, POA is not "exempt" from the PVSA, but is "protected by" the PVSA, as a US flag vessel. However, her construction requirement was waived for her completion in Germany. The reason this was waived was that the US government had provided loan guarantees to American Hawaiian Cruises for the construction of the ship, and when they went bankrupt, the government was left holding the loan to the shipyard in Pascagoula. NCL bought the ship and assumed the debt, so letting the taxpayers off the hook for the millions, so Congress voted to waive the construction requirement and allow POA to be PVSA compliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi13 Posted August 3, 2018 #23 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I would love to see cruise ships being built in the UK or the US. Both of these countries used to have excellent ship building industries in the past and I would like to see them resurrected. Anyone agree? Having worked on many exceptional British built ships, including the cruise ships - SS Uganda, SS Oriana, SS Canberra, I frequently get bouts of nostalgia. However, then I quickly snap back to reality The last larger passenger ship built in the UK was early 1970's - Vistajiord, if my memory is correct. I worked as Navigator for P&O until moving to Canada in the 80's and even before I left P&O, their newer ships were built in Germany or Italy. Why - well shipbuilding changed significantly, moving to modular construction in building docks, whereas UK yards still used slipways and started at the keel. The UK yards didn't modernise. The centralisation of construction is also based on available specialised labour and component manufacturers, such as cabins, which are now modular. In Western Canada, are are dealing with the same shipyard declines. They can still build small ships reasonably competitively, but medium and large ships are built and modified in Europe. Would I like to see some great cruise ships built in UK - yes, but for reasons above it isn't going to happen. Even if the labour was available, the infrastructure investment would be ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Tillie Posted August 4, 2018 #24 Share Posted August 4, 2018 The waters seem muddy from your posts that include China. From reading the included sites posted by others it seems that Genting is not Chinese. As to whom the ships are for...or what market...don't forget that Carnival has a hard copy contract with China to build ships in China, with Chinese labor, to be used in the Chinese cruise market. Princess had it's newest ship built for the Chinese market...sailed it to the Far East from Italy...in time to see the Chinese demand for cruising go very, very soft. So now that nice new Princess ship is doing itineraries all over SE Asia...several start/end in Australia. I think the Aussies are delighted to have a truly 'new' ship. Stay tuned.... The major stock holder of Genting is ethnically Chinese, a Malaysian citizen. Genting Hong Kong is the owner of the cruise lines. Genting operates Star and Dream, cruise lines geared to the Chinese market, and Crystal. My point was that a company that is basically Chinese bought several German ship building operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare broberts Posted August 4, 2018 #25 Share Posted August 4, 2018 It may be part of a trend: fewer and fewer things done in the US, ... The nature of what is done in the US has changed but not the amount of work. As complicated as cruise ships are, building them does not involve a great deal of creativity. Sure having a US based cruise ship builder would employ a few tens of thousands skilled workers. On the other hand, designing components and systems including software, producing entertainment content, etc. for all cruise ships can employ just as many or more higher paid people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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