Paris to Barcelona (pre-cruise) or Venice to Paris (post-cruise)?

[eurodl]

Hi everyone!

 

We are taking a Mediterranean cruise in Sept 2019. There will be 4 of us on the land portion/6 on the cruise (all first-timers). The group of 4 want to go to Paris/Normandy while we are there. I have a few questions.

 

1. Would it be best to do Paris before the cruise? Cruise leaves from Barcelona.

2. Would it be best to do Paris from Venice? Cruise ends in Rome but we will be taking a few days to go to Venice. We could extend a few more days and go to Paris from Venice.

3. We want to travel by train if possible. Time is not really an issue.

4. We would like to visit Normandy while in Paris. We can take the train to Bayeux from Paris. If we do Paris first, is there a train that will go from Bayeux to Barcelona? If we do Paris last we would take the train to Bayeux and return to Paris.

 

Any opinions/suggestions would be helpful. Also, feel free to add any other options that we may not have considered.

 

Thank you!

[marazul]

Try out the itineraries in

https://www.sncf.com/en/booking-itinerary/itinerary

 

I think I would go to Paris first to have some land time before and after the cruise. But if you have no time constraints either way would work.

[caripoo]

I think I would fly to Venice, then take the train to Paris, do Normandy beaches and then train to Barcelona.

The train from Bayeux to Barcelona has connections, not high speed and takes almost 10 hours...The train from Paris is 61/2 hrs no stops and high speed..If you have not been to Paris, you might want to use that as a base camp and do Normandy for a day on the train, and also enjoy Paris. Planning is half the fun.

[Hlitner]

You could certainly turn this into a "Grand tour"  :).  In your situation, subject to the time and money you can spare this is how we would plan the trip.  Fly directly to Paris and enjoy a few days in that fantastic city.  If you have the time, you might consider taking the TGV train from Paris to Avignon and spending a few days exploring this fantastic part of Provence.  Then continue on to Barcelona for your cruise.  After the cruise you can use the Italian trains to get from Civitaecchia to Venice (likely via Rome).  Keep in mind that this train line would make it relatively easy to stop over in Florence which is a fantastic city in one of the best regions of Italy!

The problem with this plan is Barcelona which is further from Paris then you might expect.  Using the train from Paris to Barcelona involves a 13 hour+ journey which is tiring and expensive.  An argument could be made to fly from Paris to Barcelona (cheaper then the train) although the hassles of flying cannot be overstated.  The flight is only about 1 1/2 hours and there are a few of the European budget airlines that do this route at low cost (checking luggage can cost more then the air ticket).

Adding Normandy to the mix does make it all more complicated and will take more time.   When it comes to traveling around Europe my personal preference (for the past 30+ years of extensive travel) is to simply rent a car and drive :).  This is particularly true in Normandy which is actually an expansive part of rural France with much to see and do.  Keep in mind that the D-Day beaches (and immediate region) is only one small part of Normandy.  And with a car, you can stop at Giverny (on your way to northern Normandy) and check-out Monet's home :).  We have done many long driving trips in Europe and at one time we would have suggested taking the time and just working your way to Barcelona via a rental car.  But these days, doing a one-way rental with a drop in another country has generally become price prohibitive.  If this idea gets your interest you might try telephoning either Kemwel or Autoeurope (these are sister companies that discount rental cars from major companies such as Hertz and Europcar) and ask if they have any deals that avoids the huge International one-way drop fees.

Hank

[eurodl]

9 hours ago, caripoo said:

I think I would fly to Venice, then take the train to Paris, do Normandy beaches and then train to Barcelona.

The train from Bayeux to Barcelona has connections, not high speed and takes almost 10 hours...The train from Paris is 61/2 hrs no stops and high speed..If you have not been to Paris, you might want to use that as a base camp and do Normandy for a day on the train, and also enjoy Paris. Planning is half the fun.

 

Thanks caripoo!  Unfortunately I don't think this would work.  Our cruise leaves from Barcelona and ends up in Rome.  The other couple want to do Venice post cruise.  We're not opposed to train travel.  It would give us a chance to see the countryside.  Not sure if 1 day is enough to see Normandy and the D-Day beaches, museum, etc.  We are still considering just a day tour from Paris.

 

And just to throw another monkey wrench into everything - we are looking at doing a TA cruise from Rome to Miami after the cruise.  We would have 8 days post cruise to check out Rome and Venice and return to Rome.  We could stop in Florence but the Mediterranean cruise is already stopping there.  Just so much to consider.  I'm very doubtful we will get a chance to go back to Europe so want to make the most of this trip.

[eurodl]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

You could certainly turn this into a "Grand tour"  :).  In your situation, subject to the time and money you can spare this is how we would plan the trip.  Fly directly to Paris and enjoy a few days in that fantastic city.  If you have the time, you might consider taking the TGV train from Paris to Avignon and spending a few days exploring this fantastic part of Provence.  Then continue on to Barcelona for your cruise.  After the cruise you can use the Italian trains to get from Civitaecchia to Venice (likely via Rome).  Keep in mind that this train line would make it relatively easy to stop over in Florence which is a fantastic city in one of the best regions of Italy!

The problem with this plan is Barcelona which is further from Paris then you might expect.  Using the train from Paris to Barcelona involves a 13 hour+ journey which is tiring and expensive.  An argument could be made to fly from Paris to Barcelona (cheaper then the train) although the hassles of flying cannot be overstated.  The flight is only about 1 1/2 hours and there are a few of the European budget airlines that do this route at low cost (checking luggage can cost more then the air ticket).

Adding Normandy to the mix does make it all more complicated and will take more time.   When it comes to traveling around Europe my personal preference (for the past 30+ years of extensive travel) is to simply rent a car and drive :).  This is particularly true in Normandy which is actually an expansive part of rural France with much to see and do.  Keep in mind that the D-Day beaches (and immediate region) is only one small part of Normandy.  And with a car, you can stop at Giverny (on your way to northern Normandy) and check-out Monet's home :).  We have done many long driving trips in Europe and at one time we would have suggested taking the time and just working your way to Barcelona via a rental car.  But these days, doing a one-way rental with a drop in another country has generally become price prohibitive.  If this idea gets your interest you might try telephoning either Kemwel or Autoeurope (these are sister companies that discount rental cars from major companies such as Hertz and Europcar) and ask if they have any deals that avoids the huge International one-way drop fees.

Hank

 

Thanks Hank!  We had not considered driving.  We've never been there before and not sure how easy it would be to obtain a car and navigate the area.  We would prefer the train over flying.  DH and SIL are not great flyers.  I realize we would be spending a day on the train but not a big deal.  We will have luggage that we will have to take with us whatever we decide.  Not all of us are great at packing light so this will be a learning curve.  This could turn into a month long trip!

[soundcruiser]

Eurodl, if you are considering train travel at all a great website is Seat61.com. The man who runs this has compiled the most complete collection of info on European train travel that I can imagine! Just enter your departure city on the first page under "train travel within europe" and go from there. We actually are planning a post cruise trip from Barcelona to Paris - a high-speed TGV duplex train whisks you between the two cities in about 6 hours 25 minutes! 

[eurodl]

Thanks for the tip.  I will take a look.  The trains sites I looked at weren't very user friendly.

[soundcruiser]

I found Seat61 to be super easy to use - lots of helpful things: instructions on how early to buy, whether to buy 1st or 2nd class,  links to the railways' websites (where you can purchase tickets), videos, and photos.  Holler if you have any difficulty - I'll try to help!

[eurodl]

Sounds good. Thanks again 🙂

[mapleleaves]

Seems like your itinerary might be easier if you embarked the Epic in Rome instead of Barcelona.  Is that an option for you? 

Fly into Paris and spend a few days, then fly/train to Rome for the cruise.

Post cruise, Venice is just a couple of hrs away by train.  After Venice you would train back to Rome for the TA cruise.

 

Just a thought ....

 

 

[eurodl]

1 hour ago, mapleleaves said:

Seems like your itinerary might be easier if you embarked the Epic in Rome instead of Barcelona.  Is that an option for you? 

Fly into Paris and spend a few days, then fly/train to Rome for the cruise.

Post cruise, Venice is just a couple of hrs away by train.  After Venice you would train back to Rome for the TA cruise.

 

Just a thought ....

 

 

We are cruising with 2 other couples so not really an option, but thanks throwing it out there.

[Hlitner]

21 hours ago, eurodl said:

 

Thanks Hank!  We had not considered driving.  We've never been there before and not sure how easy it would be to obtain a car and navigate the area.  We would prefer the train over flying.  DH and SIL are not great flyers.  I realize we would be spending a day on the train but not a big deal.  We will have luggage that we will have to take with us whatever we decide.  Not all of us are great at packing light so this will be a learning curve.  This could turn into a month long trip!

 

We are liking nearly everything about your trip :).  A month is our kind of trip and two months is even better.  Your comment about taking a TA home is something we have done a few times.  We have also done a few trips when we were able to use cruises both to and from Europe with several weeks in Europe between the cruises.  I truly hate dragging our luggage on European trains (we also do not pack light)....not to mention the extra security we have to follow to protect our luggage.  We actually use a special luggage cable lock (similar to a lightweight bicycle lock) to secure our luggage together and to something on the train!  Just keep in mind that there will generally be nobody to help you with your luggage and in some stations you might have to drag luggage up and down stairs!  I still have some of the scars :(.

Hank

[eurodl]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

We are liking nearly everything about your trip :).  A month is our kind of trip and two months is even better.  Your comment about taking a TA home is something we have done a few times.  We have also done a few trips when we were able to use cruises both to and from Europe with several weeks in Europe between the cruises.  I truly hate dragging our luggage on European trains (we also do not pack light)....not to mention the extra security we have to follow to protect our luggage.  We actually use a special luggage cable lock (similar to a lightweight bicycle lock) to secure our luggage together and to something on the train!  Just keep in mind that there will generally be nobody to help you with your luggage and in some stations you might have to drag luggage up and down stairs!  I still have some of the scars :(.

Hank

 

LOL!  Thanks for the cable lock suggestion.  We would have loved to take a TA both ways but could not find anything to line up with the Princess Mediterranean dates.  I have read on some other posts that they trains can be difficult to navigate and they also suggested just buying the tickets at the stations.  Any tips/tricks about the trains?  I haven't checked out Seat61.com as soundcruiser suggested by definitely will.

 

Thanks to everyone so far for all the help.  I like to plan but this trip is overwhelming me.  International travel is a whole other animal  🙂

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, eurodl said:

 

LOL!  Thanks for the cable lock suggestion.  We would have loved to take a TA both ways but could not find anything to line up with the Princess Mediterranean dates.  I have read on some other posts that they trains can be difficult to navigate and they also suggested just buying the tickets at the stations.  Any tips/tricks about the trains?  I haven't checked out Seat61.com as soundcruiser suggested by definitely will.

 

Thanks to everyone so far for all the help.  I like to plan but this trip is overwhelming me.  International travel is a whole other animal  🙂

There are some other posters that know a lot more about the trains then me, since much of our travel within Italy and France is via a rental car (we have done quite a few extensive driving trips in Europe).  But keep in mind that there are a few different types of trains including regional trains that do not have any reservations or reserved seats.  For those kind of trains you can just buy a ticket before you board (they even have ticket vending machines) and then validate them in the machines near the platform entrance.   But other trains do require reservations such as the trains running between Rome and Venice :).  Seat61 is a good place to look, but when we need to make reservations or purchase tickets in advance we tend to use the actual railroad sites.  In Italy it is the Trenitalia and France has their SNCF.  Many North Americans use the "RailEurope" site but we have often found that their prices are higher then we can get by booking directly with railroads.   If you  are using trains in France you can usually get a nice 25% Senior discount.  Italy is not so generous with Seniors but there are sometimes advance purchase discounts on intercity trains.

 

Keep in mind that gypsies/pickpockets are alive and well in Europe and they also like train stations.   One needs to always protect their valuables (including luggage).  If you are being distracted by anything such as needing to look at a map, timetable, etc.  its good to have a partner "watching your back."   Let somebody else be the "easy target" while you are always alert to your surroundings."

 

DW and I are long time independent travelers and always suggest that folks do their pre-trip homework and know their options.   We actually prefer knowing options more then detailed planning.  This makes it easy for us to change our plans "on the fly" when it seems like the thing to do.  A good example would be that we often have a "Plan B" if its a rainy day.  Or what if you plan on using the train and their happens to be a strike...or perhaps a major delay?  One great improvement for us is being able to use our cell phones.  We have T-Mobile which works in over 200 countries without any additional fees for data or text (phone calls are 25 cents a min).  Our phone is also handy as a GPS...just like at home.

 

Hank

[eurodl]

When you drive, where do you pick up the rental cars?  Are they readily available like here in the US or do you need to get them at an airport?  I'm assuming they have additional insurance like they do here.  It might be fun to do a road trip.  Just a little nervous about being out of our comfort zone.

[Hlitner]

11 hours ago, eurodl said:

When you drive, where do you pick up the rental cars?  Are they readily available like here in the US or do you need to get them at an airport?  I'm assuming they have additional insurance like they do here.  It might be fun to do a road trip.  Just a little nervous about being out of our comfort zone.

 

There is not a short answer :(.  Like in the USA you can always get rental cars at airports and there are usually agencies in or near most train stations.   In Ports it really varies from ports that have agencies very close to ports like Marseille where one must get some other transportation (taxi or bus) to even get to a rental car agency.  One also needs to be careful because in Europe there are many agency offices that are closed on Sundays.  As to insurance it is a similar minefield as here in the USA and does vary by country.  Most countries have some kind of minimum compulsory insurance that is included in the price, but this insurance is generally not adequate for most folks.  Like here in the USA the rental car companies are happy to sell you extra insurance at oft ridiculous rates.  Your major credit cards might give you some insurance and that is something you have to check with the credit card company.  And be aware that many credit cards that do provide some insurance will specifically include Italy and Ireland from their coverage.  

 

If you are going to rent a car for 3 or more days we strongly recommend calling either Kemwel or Autoeurope.  These are sister companies located in New England and are what those in the industry call "rental car consolidators" or simply discounters.  Both these companies are good at what they do and often have terrific prices with or without extra insurance.   When asking about any insurance be sure to ask (and confirm in writing) about any "deductibles" which might also be called "excess."

 

And finally, since the OP talks about Venice, they do have a unique situation with rental cars.  There are plenty of agencies at the airport and this is normal.  But you cannot drive in Venice (unless you have a boat) with the exception of the tiny area around the Piazale Roma (not far from the cruise port).  The major rental car companies generally have agencies in the Piazale Roma, but they are hidden inside parking garages (this is common in many parts of Europe).  It is possible to drive over the causeway right into Venice and drop (or pick-up) a rental car at this location.  And speaking of Italy, at Rome's major airport (FCO) most of the rental car offices are hidden inside the large parking garages connected to the terminal.

 

If anyone has a question about specific locations post them here and we will try to help/

 

Hank

 

 

[ollienbertsmum]

On 10/19/2018 at 2:30 AM, eurodl said:

 

Thanks caripoo!  Unfortunately I don't think this would work.  Our cruise leaves from Barcelona and ends up in Rome.  The other couple want to do Venice post cruise.  We're not opposed to train travel.  It would give us a chance to see the countryside.  Not sure if 1 day is enough to see Normandy and the D-Day beaches, museum, etc.  We are still considering just a day tour from Paris.

 

And just to throw another monkey wrench into everything - we are looking at doing a TA cruise from Rome to Miami after the cruise.  We would have 8 days post cruise to check out Rome and Venice and return to Rome.  We could stop in Florence but the Mediterranean cruise is already stopping there.  Just so much to consider.  I'm very doubtful we will get a chance to go back to Europe so want to make the most of this trip.

 

 

I would do Paris/Normandy - Barcelona - Civitavecchia - Venice.   Just because your cruise stops in Livorno, it does not mean that you have to go to Florence.  It might be nice to do that as Hank says, on your way to Venice.  I am a big fan of doing Pisa and Lucca by train as a day trip from Livorno.  You also might get on an excursion to Cinque Terre from the ship.  That is a great option.  

 

I would really consider flying from Paris to BCN.  I am sure that the train would be expensive - and take so much time.   We live a 6 hour train journey from Barcelona and I have got in the habit of using this as our preferred way to get there.  I think we are probably on the 'cusp' of it being a time-wasting way to travel.  We have just got used to it.  We don't do it for the scenery which through Spain is quite dull.  

 

I know that you want to maximise your trip but I would be mindful of adding too many stops unless you have time to really enjoy that place.   Just remember that you will be seeing some of the most amazing cities in Europe - and many Europeans have not had the opportunity to visit them.  Venice is still on my wishlist and I have lived in Europe all my life. 

[lamchops]

Having been to all the places you’ve listed either pre or post cruise I would do the following:

1) fly into Paris pre-cruise and do your sightseeing and day trips.

2) take the high speed train to Barcelona and spend a couple of days there.

3) cruise to Rome 

4) take the train to Venice via Florence

5) fly home from Venice or train back to Rome for the TA 

 

The train to Barcelona is 6.5 hours but when you factor in traveling to and from both airports and 2 hours pre-flight check in, it’s a wash. 

[eurodl]

1 hour ago, ollienbertsmum said:

 

I would do Paris/Normandy - Barcelona - Civitavecchia - Venice.   Just because your cruise stops in Livorno, it does not mean that you have to go to Florence.  It might be nice to do that as Hank says, on your way to Venice.  I am a big fan of doing Pisa and Lucca by train as a day trip from Livorno.  You also might get on an excursion to Cinque Terre from the ship.  That is a great option.  

 

I would really consider flying from Paris to BCN.  I am sure that the train would be expensive - and take so much time.   We live a 6 hour train journey from Barcelona and I have got in the habit of using this as our preferred way to get there.  I think we are probably on the 'cusp' of it being a time-wasting way to travel.  We have just got used to it.  We don't do it for the scenery which through Spain is quite dull.  

 

I know that you want to maximise your trip but I would be mindful of adding too many stops unless you have time to really enjoy that place.   Just remember that you will be seeing some of the most amazing cities in Europe - and many Europeans have not had the opportunity to visit them.  Venice is still on my wishlist and I have lived in Europe all my life. 

 

Thank you ollienburtsmum.  That sounds like a good idea to maybe save Florence for the trip to Venice and see something else when we stop in Livorno.  Although the one couple that will just be on the cruise will probably want to go there.  So many things to consider.  I will bring up flying from Paris to BCN but not sure how it will be received by the "non-flyers".  🙂  Our itinerary is starting to sound very tiring so the TA on the way back sounds very restful.

[eurodl]

54 minutes ago, lamchops said:

Having been to all the places you’ve listed either pre or post cruise I would do the following:

1) fly into Paris pre-cruise and do your sightseeing and day trips.

2) take the high speed train to Barcelona and spend a couple of days there.

3) cruise to Rome 

4) take the train to Venice via Florence

5) fly home from Venice or train back to Rome for the TA 

 

The train to Barcelona is 6.5 hours but when you factor in traveling to and from both airports and 2 hours pre-flight check in, it’s a wash. 

 

Thanks lamchops.  I had not considered the travel and check-in time for the airport.  The high-speed train doesn't sound so bad.

[eurodl]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

There is not a short answer :(.  Like in the USA you can always get rental cars at airports and there are usually agencies in or near most train stations.   In Ports it really varies from ports that have agencies very close to ports like Marseille where one must get some other transportation (taxi or bus) to even get to a rental car agency.  One also needs to be careful because in Europe there are many agency offices that are closed on Sundays.  As to insurance it is a similar minefield as here in the USA and does vary by country.  Most countries have some kind of minimum compulsory insurance that is included in the price, but this insurance is generally not adequate for most folks.  Like here in the USA the rental car companies are happy to sell you extra insurance at oft ridiculous rates.  Your major credit cards might give you some insurance and that is something you have to check with the credit card company.  And be aware that many credit cards that do provide some insurance will specifically include Italy and Ireland from their coverage.  

 

If you are going to rent a car for 3 or more days we strongly recommend calling either Kemwel or Autoeurope.  These are sister companies located in New England and are what those in the industry call "rental car consolidators" or simply discounters.  Both these companies are good at what they do and often have terrific prices with or without extra insurance.   When asking about any insurance be sure to ask (and confirm in writing) about any "deductibles" which might also be called "excess."

 

And finally, since the OP talks about Venice, they do have a unique situation with rental cars.  There are plenty of agencies at the airport and this is normal.  But you cannot drive in Venice (unless you have a boat) with the exception of the tiny area around the Piazale Roma (not far from the cruise port).  The major rental car companies generally have agencies in the Piazale Roma, but they are hidden inside parking garages (this is common in many parts of Europe).  It is possible to drive over the causeway right into Venice and drop (or pick-up) a rental car at this location.  And speaking of Italy, at Rome's major airport (FCO) most of the rental car offices are hidden inside the large parking garages connected to the terminal.

 

If anyone has a question about specific locations post them here and we will try to help/

 

Hank

 

 

 

Thanks for the rental car info Hank.  The OP is me 🙂  Not sure we would need a rental car for Venice by maybe Paris > Barcelona and/or Rome > Venice.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, eurodl said:

 

Thanks for the rental car info Hank.  The OP is me 🙂  Not sure we would need a rental car for Venice by maybe Paris > Barcelona and/or Rome > Venice.

 

The best rental car deals are when you pick-up and drop within a single country.  We have often done circular routes on our long driving trips for just this reason.  A one way International rental can involve huge drop fees so one has to keep this in mind when looking for options.  Sometimes it even makes sense to drop near a border and use train or bus to finish the journey.  For example, if driving from Paris to Barcelona you might want to drop the car somewhere in Southwestern France.  This kind of planning is all part of the fun :).

 

Hank

[eurodl]

Thanks for the tip.

[ollienbertsmum]

11 hours ago, lamchops said:

Having been to all the places you’ve listed either pre or post cruise I would do the following:

1) fly into Paris pre-cruise and do your sightseeing and day trips.

2) take the high speed train to Barcelona and spend a couple of days there.

3) cruise to Rome 

4) take the train to Venice via Florence

5) fly home from Venice or train back to Rome for the TA 

 

The train to Barcelona is 6.5 hours but when you factor in traveling to and from both airports and 2 hours pre-flight check in, it’s a wash. 

 

 

I have returned to see what the general view of others was.  Lamchops has written out what I would say is the best itinerary.  I have actually looked at the mileage and take back what I said about flying. vs train.  It is the same distance from Paris to Barcelona as the journey we do from Malaga to Barcelona!!  Because the former journey is between two countries it just seems as though it would be further.  Many folk would still feel that you are crazy not to fly, and it will probably be more expensive than flying but it is a personal choice.  

 

To enjoy the trip you will need two weeks in addition to the cruises - but it is completely doable as long as you do not overpack and resist the temptation to keep buying stuff on the way.