Cargo ship voyage insurance

[Julian_S]

Good evening all, I'm new here and hoping someone can help me.

 

I had/have booked a Transatlantic trip on an ACL freighter from Canada to the UK. ACL is a subsidiary of Grimaldi and I have had an exchange of emails with their passenger services girl in Naples. 

I needed insurance, specifically insurance to cover repatriation in case of death. I asked for recommendations, but they said that basically any would do, so I purchased insurance from Aviva that would cover me for my flight to Canada, cover when in Canada and for the cruise element of the journey back to the UK.  10 million quid's worth of medical & repatriation.

 

So far so good......well I emailed them the policy details and the conditions etc which clearly showed what the cover extended to but it wasn't good enough. They wanted a form, ie a single piece of paper showing my name, policy and the repatriation cover.......Back on the blower to Aviva and they said they would send me an email detailing my name, cover policy and repatriation element.......Good I though, that would do the trick, so I forwarded this email and kept my fingers crossed. Nope, not good enough :-( I spoke to Aviva again and they would not do any more for me. (I don't entirely blame them either) 

 

So luckily I hadn't paid for the cruise or flight, and there's plenty more on a continuous basis. But what the hell can I do, someone here must have had similar issues? Any recommendations would be gratefully received.

 

Regards Julian.

[cruising cockroach]

I think this cover will be very difficult. You could ask Lloyd's if they'll underwrite something like this.  I'd ask ACL what insurance companies they deal with if they already haven't.  Or maybe go to cruise people i think it is and book through them (no extra cost, it seems).

 

Never had a problem with CMA-CGM.  They accepted standard travel insurance.

[LHT28]

maybe ask on this forum  maybe others  had the same issues

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/378-freighter-and-other-non-traditional-cruise-travel/

[Julian_S]

Thanks for the replies. To re-cap, I did have the correct sufficient insurance cover, but couldn't present it to the Grimaldi woman in a way that she would accept. 

 

I'll certainly give the other forum a try. Odd isn't it, they were not so bothered about where I purchased insurance. But were not happy about the layout, which as far as I can tell is industry standard. I could have probably fudged up my own document for them, but that's not the way I operate.

 

Julian

[Heidi13]

7 hours ago, cruising cockroach said:

I think this cover will be very difficult. You could ask Lloyd's if they'll underwrite something like this.  I'd ask ACL what insurance companies they deal with if they already haven't.  Or maybe go to cruise people i think it is and book through them (no extra cost, it seems).

 

Never had a problem with CMA-CGM.  They accepted standard travel insurance.

For this type of coverage, shipowners join one of the Protection & Indemnity (P&I) Clubs.

[Julian_S]

Avanti have agreed to refund my policy. I have to say that their handling of the situation has been very good indeed and I would recommend them to anyone.

They have given me a telephone number for BIBA (British insurance brokers association) and say they could help, so watch this space.....

 

Julian

[mef_57]

49 minutes ago, Julian_S said:

Avanti have agreed to refund my policy. I have to say that their handling of the situation has been very good indeed and I would recommend them to anyone.

They have given me a telephone number for BIBA (British insurance brokers association) and say they could help, so watch this space.....

 

Julian

I hope you will be willing to share your experience over on the freighter forum. You may not be the only one, now or in the future, to hit this sort of snag.

[Julian_S]

Good evening all, I thought I would bring you all an update, I'm still flogging a dead horse though.

 

So yesterday I phoned the  BIBA (British Insurance Brokers Assoc.) as recommended by Avanti.

I  told them my story and the odd request and they put me through to a broker who they suspected would help me.

I explained everything, they made a note of my phone number and email address and said their team would look into it and I would hear back from them within an hour or two if they could help.

 

No return communication was forthcoming.

 

So I had another idea, I'd email the Grimaldi booking girl again and ask for the name of a British insurance company that had provided acceptable cover in the past, after all, a Brit must have traveled on an ACL vessel in the past. So below is my email and the reply that I got:

 

Good morning Luciana, you may well remember our exchanges from a week or two
ago regarding the format of the travel insurance requirement.

So far I have failed in my search and have involved BIBA (British Insurance
Brokers Association) but who have, as yet, failed to find a broker for me
who can arrange a one page sheet for my cover (as you demand)

Please can you assist me by checking your records and naming a British
travel insurer who has provided the information in the format that you
demand. You must have had many British people travelling as passenger on ACL
vessels. If you could give me the company name(s) then I could contact them
directly.

Kind regards Julian

 

The reply:

 

Good morning,

I'm so sorry but we don't have this informations because the passenger must provide - by themselves - theis assurance in order to travel on our cargo vessels .

Remain at your disposal.

Best regards

Luciana Scotto di Frega
GRIMALDI LINES
Passenger Department

 

Right, well I'm well and truly properly stumped now! What the blooming hell are they after? I'm at a loss here. I'd be very grateful for any thoughts that directly relate to this matter.

 

Julian

[mef_57]

So frustrating!

I know it might not be any more beneficial if the Freighter board can't help, but I just noticed CC has an 'insurance' board

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/499-cruisetravel-insurance/

 

[Luckynana]

Best of luck, Julian.  I can only imagine how frustrating this is for you.😣

[Bevv]

From an experience of a cargo ship passenger on the website of https://ndoherty.com/cargo-ship-travel/

 

• Insurance Declaration

I had to provide details of my international travel insurance. I was insured with World Nomads at the time and that worked fine.

You may also be required to provide your Certificate of Insurance from your insurance company.

[Julian_S]

Thanks for the replies, but I did have ''insurance declaration'' provided by Aviva, it just wasn't in an appropriate form. 

Reading the Grimaldi lady's words a few times it suddenly occurred to me that she is wanting me to make the deceleration, based on the Avanti policy myself. So I had the idea of making a pdf document or similar that detailed concisely, on one page, the cover I have. It's my own document, but it is essentially only reflecting what Avanti provide. I may give it a go, just for the fun of it really and see if I can blag it. Failing that then I'll try an agent as see what they can do for me.

 

I've lost a bit of interest at the moment because I suspect the Atlantic air will be freezing cold for the next several months so I'd be mostly hiding in my cabin for a week.

 

Julian.

[donaldsc]

3 hours ago, Julian_S said:

Thanks for the replies, but I did have ''insurance declaration'' provided by Aviva, it just wasn't in an appropriate form. 

Reading the Grimaldi lady's words a few times it suddenly occurred to me that she is wanting me to make the deceleration, based on the Avanti policy myself. So I had the idea of making a pdf document or similar that detailed concisely, on one page, the cover I have. It's my own document, but it is essentially only reflecting what Avanti provide. I may give it a go, just for the fun of it really and see if I can blag it. Failing that then I'll try an agent as see what they can do for me.

 

I've lost a bit of interest at the moment because I suspect the Atlantic air will be freezing cold for the next several months so I'd be mostly hiding in my cabin for a week.

 

Julian.

 

I was going to suggest that you figure out what they want and forge the necessary documents.  What can happen if  they find you out - kick you off the ship in the middle of the Atlantic.  But I guess that you have already thought of the forging option.  Maybe next time.

 

DON

[cruising cockroach]

3 hours ago, Julian_S said:

 

I've lost a bit of interest at the moment because I suspect the Atlantic air will be freezing cold for the next several months so I'd be mostly hiding in my cabin for a week.

 

Not just cold but also rough. 

 

CMA-CGM has this disclaimer:

 

Passengers are advised not to cross the Atlantic at certain periods; as a matter of fact, navigating the North Atlantic between December and March has its dangers, as the sea is very difficult between France and the West Indies where amazingly violent depressions may succeed each other!

 

 

The open space around the ship's accommodation isn't that nice to hang around outside anyway.  If you find a protected spot away from the wind, its o.k., if you can find a deck chair.

 

We noticed on our 2 week Pacific crossing, the only times we ever saw anyone out on deck were the ordinary and able seamen doing their work, and the bosun walking around to make sure everything is normal as is his job. Everyone was just in the accommodation.

 

Still highly recommend the trip.  I can see a somewhat-busy shipping channel (Juan de Fuca) from my house and saw a CMA-CGM ship for the first time in my year of living here.  Not that I'm sure that the ship carries passengers.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, cruising cockroach said:

 

Not just cold but also rough. 

 

CMA-CGM has this disclaimer:

 

 

 

 

The open space around the ship's accommodation isn't that nice to hang around outside anyway.  If you find a protected spot away from the wind, its o.k., if you can find a deck chair.

 

We noticed on our 2 week Pacific crossing, the only times we ever saw anyone out on deck were the ordinary and able seamen doing their work, and the bosun walking around to make sure everything is normal as is his job. Everyone was just in the accommodation.

 

Still highly recommend the trip.  I can see a somewhat-busy shipping channel (Juan de Fuca) from my house and saw a CMA-CGM ship for the first time in my year of living here.  Not that I'm sure that the ship carries passengers.

Best place during Atlantic winter storms is sitting on the Bridge, watching the bow disappear under the water, with seas rolling down the deck and finally pounding against the aft accommodation.

[cruising cockroach]

21 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Best place during Atlantic winter storms is sitting on the Bridge, watching the bow disappear under the water, with seas rolling down the deck and finally pounding against the aft accommodation.

 

Just wondering if you observe this - porpoising into the waves - in the >10,000 TEU/ 1,200' or longer container ships where the prow of the bow is at least 50' above water when calm?

 

The freighter that I was on rolled mightily (at least 15 degrees each way but I understand it could have been 25 or more) but never observed any waves going over the deck as no big waves were coming straight at us..

 

I can see this easily happening in loaded tankers and bulk carriers though.

[Heidi13]

15 minutes ago, cruising cockroach said:

 

Just wondering if you observe this - porpoising into the waves - in the >10,000 TEU/ 1,200' or longer container ships where the prow of the bow is at least 50' above water when calm?

 

The freighter that I was on rolled mightily (at least 15 degrees each way but I understand it could have been 25 or more) but never observed any waves going over the deck as no big waves were coming straight at us..

 

I can see this easily happening in loaded tankers and bulk carriers though.

Never sailed on box boats, but they tend to avoid ploughing into serious head seas to avoid damage to or even losing containers.

 

On a reefer ship, we rolled 45 degrees both sides for a couple of days when crossing the Indian Ocean. No hot meals and you removed the mattress from the bunk and used lifejackets to prop up one side.

 

On tankers we had to avoid seas on the fore deck to prevent damage to the deck pipes and manifold. In a serious Pacific Storm we hove too for 2 days, losing over 30 miles

[chengkp75]

Depends on the weather, I've been on some ships that have dug into the waves, but that is generally the signal that you're going too fast for the wave period, and it's time to slow down a wee bit.  The flare of the bow is what keeps a ship from digging into the waves.  As the wave rises against the bow, the bow is wider and wider, providing more and more buoyancy, so the bow has more force to rise with the sea and go over it.  Interestingly, one of the benefits of the ducktail transoms you are seeing on cruise ships is that it reduces pitching by lengthening the longitudinal moment of inertia, so you would have more tendency to dig into waves.

 

On older single hull tankers, where the freeboard (height from waterline to deck) was only 5-10 feet, I've been in conditions where the entire deck forward of the house was submerged.  These were like pushing a cinder block through the ocean.  Now, double hull tankers have much more freeboard, and its rarer to take seas over the bow, but its happened in the Gulf of Alaska, for instance.  When a ship porpoises into a sea, you get a huge jarring, slamming of the ship, and again, that is the notification that you need to try to match the wave period better so the ship meets each sea the same, instead of slamming into every few seas.

[Underwatr]

For what it's worth (which may not be all that much) my "Certificate of Coverage" for an upcoming cruise (regular insurance on a regular cruise ship) is 20 pages long, despite an implication in the word "certificate" that it might be a single sheet of paper (perhaps even suitable for framing 😉 ). There's also a one-page summary but it doesn't delve into the terms and conditions under which the coverage is given.

[Julian_S]

Well chaps, I got busy yesterday evening while the misses was watching tripe on the box and produced my own document which essentials condenses the salient points onto a single sheet of paper. I'll convert it to pdf and bang it off to Grimaldi and see what they say. (No doubt the print colour will not be of the correct pantone or similar 😞 )

[Julian_S]

Some more information and this time, rather astonishingly, it's good news.

 

I took the Insurance validation certificate and converted it to Word format. Deleted some unimportant stuff to make space and then via some additional boxes added the ''key facts'' relevant information to it, ''key facts'' being my liability and medical/repatriation cover. I checked it all for accuracy, tidied it all up and converted it to a pdf document.

 

I sent this to the Grimaldi girl as an illustrative example and asked her directly if this format would be acceptable to her - yes or no. Well bugger me, a few hours later she replied that it was fine and would I like to start a new booking. So it appears that they are really just looking for a self declaration and why on earth they are incapable of studying the documents themselves remains a mystery. Now that could have just  been a work of fiction, it wasn't as I don't work that way and wouldn't want to saddle my family with a stack of expense if something bad happens. But there you go, sorted, as they say!

 

Julian.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Julian_S

[LHT28]

glad you finally found the solution

so the big question is  did you rebook with them ??  🙂

[Julian_S]

Not yet LHT, I need to look into the holiday situation again and see what could fit.

 

Now that winter's upon us, aside from icy winds, what's it going to be like on ''The Worlds largest Ro-Ro vessel'' (100,000 tons) if there's an Atlantic storm? I've had a passage on the Ben-My-Chree when there's a bit of a swell in the Irish sea and that doesn't bother me so much,  the vessel was just pitching as the stabs stopped the roll. But could it be pretty unpleasant for days on end? I've never experienced a rough sea on a 100,000 ton vessel.

 

Julian.

[cruising cockroach]

How high's the CoG on the ship?  No stabs, I'm quite sure.  I think they chain down the vehicles?

 

A 131,000 dwt container ship can still roll (reportedly more than 25 degrees each way where the crew can't even sleep).  Surprising that the containers above the bottom 3 stacked on the deck don't roll off more than they already do!

[chengkp75]

A Ro/Ro vessel will have the vehicles chained down.  And they will have anti-roll ballast tanks, but no stabilizers.  The big problem with Ro/Ro's is that the "house" is all the way forward, and the motion can get quite brutal.

 

As for containers on a ship's deck, these are locked together in the stack, and the stack is lashed down with steel rods.