Yappy Dog in Stroller on Reflection

[jasm8449]

I’m currently on the Reflection TA. I’ve read about this on this forum but never experienced it personally until now. I won’t presume to know the issue the passenger has that required her to need a support animal (but I assume that is the only reason Celebrity would allow it).  

 

However I question what special training this dog has given that while the owner was shopping the clothing racks, her dog was yapping loudly and not obeying when she told it to be quiet. 

 

My understanding is that properly trained legitimate service dogs, including those that serve persons with PTSD or other diagnosed psychological issues, autism spectrum issues or diabetic issues, do not yap or bark indiscriminately.  Nor are they pushed around in a stroller. Or am I wrong?

 

 

[Gracie115]

THIS is not a service dog.....TRUE service dogs are better behaved than most humans...….

[FlorenceItaly]

You are not wrong.  I hope many go to Guest Services and complain or this is going to get out of hand!

[excitedofharpenden]

Go and complain for sure and request acknowledgement by the Hotel Director. 

 

Phil

[Fla Mike]

I have to agree with just about everyone here that fluffy in the stroller is not a legitimate support dog. 

The owner may have a piece of paper, but that's all.

 

We we on a cruise not too long ago with a site impaired couple and each had a guide dog.

Those dogs were well behaved and lay beside their humans at all times.

They did not make a sound, and paid no attention to any other human around them.

 

Maybe I should get a piece of paper and claim my two year old Australian Cattle Dog is my support animal.

She's not hyper at all! 🤣

[Mr. Click]

Finally a reason to be glad we passed on doing this TA.  The whole "service animal" it out of hand.  Airlines are cracking down on it and cruise lines need to do the same.  The US air carriers have rules now that are so rigid that I can no longer bring my therapy elephant with me.

[Bo1953]

While I understand how 'distressing' this situation can possibly be, I would like to know how often you have encountered  this passenger and/or Service Animal? This one (1) time or more frequently?

 

How long were they in the shopping arcade where you initially encountered this 'issue'? Do they eat in your dining room within ear shot of your table? What about the theatre? The pool area? OVC?

 

If barking is often and in more than the one (1) venue for extended period of time (7+ minutes), then a chat with the Hotel Director is in order, otherwise....

 

If it is, so far, this one (1) time, not sure how it could be distressing, yet since you are at best in the middle of your sailing, there will be more time to let us know about the number of times they have distressed and disrupted the sailing.

 

While certainly most Service Animals (and passengers without SA's) will conform to many of our ideas and ideals for sailing, there are times when these dreams do get shattered and must be addressed.

 

Continue to enjoy your sailing.

 

bon voyage

[2chiefs]

1 hour ago, Mr. Click said:

Finally a reason to be glad we passed on doing this TA.  The whole "service animal" it out of hand.  Airlines are cracking down on it and cruise lines need to do the same.  The US air carriers have rules now that are so rigid that I can no longer bring my therapy elephant with me.

 

I heard that therapy elephants can be unruly at times.

T

[2chiefs]

I was at a Hampton Inn recently in NC and a guy was in the food area filling his plate with one hand and carrying a Chihuahua in the other. I complained to the front desk and the clerk agreed that animals were not allowed in the food area but did nothing about it. That particular hotel is dog friendly and always has several guests with dogs most days I am there. I visit the same area frequently so I've switched hotels.

 

The rules are bent/broken by a few all the time and if not enforced then are larger populace suffers.

[dkjretired]

1 hour ago, Fla Mike said:

I have to agree with just about everyone here that fluffy in the stroller is not a legitimate support dog. 

The owner may have a piece of paper, but that's all.

 

We we on a cruise not too long ago with a site impaired couple and each had a guide dog.

Those dogs were well behaved and lay beside their humans at all times.

They did not make a sound, and paid no attention to any other human around them.

 

Maybe I should get a piece of paper and claim my two year old Australian Cattle Dog is my support animal.

She's not hyper at all! 🤣

 

Service Dogs and Support Dogs are totally different things and have distinct rules for each.   Any discussion always confuses them.   

 

Below is a link to the rules for SERVICE animals.   

 

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

Edited October 28, 2018 by dkjretired

[FlorenceItaly]

I do not believe support animals are bound by the same ADA laws.  The cruise line does not have to permit this, but, they are choosing to.

[excitedofharpenden]

18 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

While I understand how 'distressing' this situation can possibly be, I would like to know how often you have encountered  this passenger and/or Service Animal? This one (1) time or more frequently?

 

How long were they in the shopping arcade where you initially encountered this 'issue'? Do they eat in your dining room within ear shot of your table? What about the theatre? The pool area? OVC?

 

If barking is often and in more than the one (1) venue for extended period of time (7+ minutes), then a chat with the Hotel Director is in order, otherwise....

 

If it is, so far, this one (1) time, not sure how it could be distressing, yet since you are at best in the middle of your sailing, there will be more time to let us know about the number of times they have distressed and disrupted the sailing.

 

While certainly most Service Animals (and passengers without SA's) will conform to many of our ideas and ideals for sailing, there are times when these dreams do get shattered and must be addressed.

 

Continue to enjoy your sailing.

 

bon voyage

It's not this particular issue in isolation.  It's the trend.  I have been on Azamara transatlantics (700 guest ship) and there were 6 service dogs and only one of those was a true service dog.  I know one of the "owners" was horrid and she has been spotted on a few other cruises taking her dog across the Atlantic.  Another pooch was seen sitting on the owners lap at a table in the main dining room being fed titbits.  It has indeed gotten ridiculous and thank goodness the companies are onto it.

 

Phil

[oneputt18]

Complain if the dog continues this behavior:

"Guests are responsible for the behavior or damage caused by their service dog. A cleaning fee may be charged to the guest's shipboard account. If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc."

[bigbeergut]

Royal has banned the emotional support animals from cruises but has grandfathered requests made before August 2018.  Did we ever get a clarification if this also applied to Celebrity ships?

 

[dkjretired]

8 minutes ago, bigbeergut said:

Royal has banned the emotional support animals from cruises but has grandfathered requests made before August 2018.  Did we ever get a clarification if this also applied to Celebrity ships?

 

 

Apparently that rule only applied to Royal Caribbean since they mentioned this would apply on all their 25 ships which is the number that they actually have.

 

https://cruisefever.net/royal-caribbean-banning-emotional-support-animals-from-their-cruise-ships/

[sippican]

Anyone can order fake credentials and a vest proclaiming that Fluffy is a support animal. 

We truly consider our two pups as family, but they stay with somone when we travel, and fly in carriers under the seats (for which we pay extra fare) on internal flights.

I can't tell you how many times other pet owners have encouraged us to declare them as support anuimals. We won't - it's dishonest and deceitful!

I hope you complained forcefully! Thank you for posting the photo, but I doubt that people like this will be shamed, they'll just assure you that their darling does indeed perform a service.

[gerelmx]

Supposedly they would be more strict with medical documentation to avoid abuse, if you are not satisfied or doubt that it is really a service dog go to customer relations and put your complaint.  

[Bo1953]

30 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

It's not this particular issue in isolation.  It's the trend.  I have been on Azamara transatlantics (700 guest ship) and there were 6 service dogs and only one of those was a true service dog.  I know one of the "owners" was horrid and she has been spotted on a few other cruises taking her dog across the Atlantic.  Another pooch was seen sitting on the owners lap at a table in the main dining room being fed tidbits.  It has indeed gotten ridiculous and thank goodness the companies are onto it.

 

Phil

 

e - Yes, I accept that this is not an isolated situation, yet my question(s) still remain about exposure to the 'ill-behaving/offending' animals and passengers.

 

The example of SA in lap is, IMO, not acceptable and is a reportable offense of the policy, as the passenger can make other dining arrangements, to be sure, to accommodate the SA's care.

 

I, for one, would not recommend that a relaxing of the rules and policies over these animals aboard passenger lines be relaxed as there is at least one line which permits true non-SA's in kennels aboard.

 

Each of us has our tolerance limits for such things, which I understand and accept as well.

 

bon voyage

[excitedofharpenden]

They just need some rules.  I'm willing to bet the woman had a place in Europe and was coming back to the US for the winter.

 

Phil

[dkjretired]

20 minutes ago, sippican said:

Anyone can order fake credentials and a vest proclaiming that Fluffy is a support animal. 

We truly consider our two pups as family, but they stay with somone when we travel, and fly in carriers under the seats (for which we pay extra fare) on internal flights.

I can't tell you how many times other pet owners have encouraged us to declare them as support anuimals. We won't - it's dishonest and deceitful!

I hope you complained forcefully! Thank you for posting the photo, but I doubt that people like this will be shamed, they'll just assure you that their darling does indeed perform a service.

 

The problem is we do not know what these people are telling the cruise line as to the status of the dog.  If they are saying it is a support dog, the cruise line can set rules as Royal has done if they choose to do so.  Among those rules could be they don't permit support animals as apparently Royal is doing.    If they are saying these animals are service dogs then the only recourse for the cruise line is to document bad behavior by the dog and or handler.   

 

 

 

[laslomas]

If RCI are placing a ban on the Support Animals, and Celebrity are not, I fear we will see more on Celebrity from now on. 😨

[sippican]

46 minutes ago, dkjretired said:

 

The problem is we do not know what these people are telling the cruise line as to the status of the dog.  If they are saying it is a support dog, the cruise line can set rules as Royal has done if they choose to do so.  Among those rules could be they don't permit support animals as apparently Royal is doing.    If they are saying these animals are service dogs then the only recourse for the cruise line is to document bad behavior by the dog and or handler.   

 

Yes, I fault the owners completely for pulling such stunts!

 

 

[phoenix_dream]

I am getting fed up with this support dog (animal) baloney.  I'm sure there are some situations such as PTSD where there is truly a benefit.  But I would be willing to bet lots of $$ that those are few and far between, as regards being a necessity.  What did these people do on cruises ten years ago before this was in fashion??  I'll bet that somehow they managed.  It's all about the difference between nice to have and need to have.  And call me cold-hearted, but IMHO if someone is so delicate emotionally that they need a support animal to allow them to travel, perhaps they should not be doing it.  What if something happens while onboard and they have a breakdown of some sort.  In a veteran with PTSD that could present a safety issue, as well as an issue for the person.  There are no psychiatrists or psychologists available.  Lest you think I am unfamiliar with mental health issues, nothing could be further from the truth.  I come from a family with a number of people suffering from various mental health issues, a number of which are the kind where people claim they need support animals.  With medication and therapy and sheer force of will somehow they manage to live normal lives thank goodness.  I also have several relatives who are veterans, including a son, so I am not insensitive to that either.  But facts are facts.  

[alwaysonaship]

Totally agree. We have pets and they provide great love and companionship, but they do not travel with us. I have not seen this situation before on one of our  trips, but it is blatant abuse. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by alwaysonaship

[JRG]

We like all dogs, but if they are not trained then they are 'persona non grata' to us.

 

It's the abuse of the system that is the problem.