Reliability of ships

[Suzycruisezy]

We are booked on the Discovery in May for Idyllic Italia and Adriatic Explorer. I've just found out that the ship broke down last week and finally limped into Muscat two days late. It's missed ports, flights home have had to be changed to later date and those still onboard are now on their way to Dubai for repairs and will miss a lot of ports. Apparently the Discovery has broken down a number of times last year and this year, as have other ships in the Marella fleet. Therefor, with regret, we have decided to cancel and either book with another cruise line or take a land holiday.

Can anyone recommend a reliable cruise line in the Med and or say which ships to avoid?

 

Kind regards,

 

Susan

[cruising cockroach]

A brand-new-from-the-shipyard-just-delivered ship may lots of bugs that show up due to construction and installation errors, and for new-design, design errors.  These get fixed during the first few cruises (hopefully) and the ship gets near to 100% functionality and reliability (again, hopefully).  It then starts to degrade over time as components age, corrode and wear out (some, such as engines, are difficult to change out).  As the ship gets older and older, more and more things go wrong (just like commercial aircraft).  A lot has to do with design and maintenance but things can still go wrong.

 

Maybe choose a ship that has been in service for at least a year but not more than 10-15?

 

What's surprising is that the Marella Discovery isn't that old at 22-23 years.

[paul929207]

We have sailed Princess in the Med a number of times  with no problems

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, cruising cockroach said:

A brand-new-from-the-shipyard-just-delivered ship may lots of bugs that show up due to construction and installation errors, and for new-design, design errors.  These get fixed during the first few cruises (hopefully) and the ship gets near to 100% functionality and reliability (again, hopefully).  It then starts to degrade over time as components age, corrode and wear out (some, such as engines, are difficult to change out).  As the ship gets older and older, more and more things go wrong (just like commercial aircraft).  A lot has to do with design and maintenance but things can still go wrong.

 

Maybe choose a ship that has been in service for at least a year but not more than 10-15?

 

What's surprising is that the Marella Discovery isn't that old at 22-23 years.

While most of what you say is true, engines are completely torn down for overhaul every 12k hours (about every 2 years), and these overhauls are to the degree that "changing out" is not required, and the engine has a virtually infinite life span.

[Suzycruisezy]

Transformer/generator problems apparently. They're in Dubai just now waiting for parts.

[cb at sea]

Hey...stuff happens...even to NEW ships, cars, planes, etc.!  I've been "held up" on a flight because of something broken...my car has broken down...so has my furnace!    ANYTHING mechanical can break....that's a fact...can't do much about it!  

[Suzycruisezy]

24 minutes ago, cb at sea said:

Hey...stuff happens...even to NEW ships, cars, planes, etc.!  I've been "held up" on a flight because of something broken...my car has broken down...so has my furnace!    ANYTHING mechanical can break....that's a fact...can't do much about it!  

Yes I can. I can cancel the cruise now I know the ship is prone to breaking down regularly and book a cruise on a reliable ship. Avoiding getting stuck at sea for days on a hot stuffy ship with no aircon, unbearably hot cabins, changed flights to a different airport than my car, missing the places I've paid to visit and the tours I've paid to go on and having to claim insurance and compensation.

Your reply above seems to be a standard response, repeated almost word for word in other forums as if "***** happens" is an excuse for running a fleet that isn't fit for purpose. I won't book onto a broken down old ship again.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Suzycruisezy

[Krazy Kruizers]

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

 

If I were you, I would cancel the cruise.

 

We have sailed Cunard, Princess, HAL and NCL in the Med.  All were great cruises.  There is also Royal Caribbean to check out.

[mom says]

I dare anyone to declare with 100% certainty that any given ship on any given sailing will NOT encounter a problem that might require it to miss a port or be delayed on its return. Can't be done. The best anyone can truthfully declare is that the likelihood is remote but there is no guarantee.

 

If you want to cancel your current booking and book with one of the other mass market lines, then go ahead. Just be realistic with your expectations. . If you require absolute certainty that you won't miss a port, then I would recommend a land vacation instead. In fact, given your other posts on this thread, I really think that cruising isn't for you.

[John Bull]

Hi Susan

 

As per other folks' comments, there's no certainties.

 

Very few cruises are significantly affected (eg missing ports) because of mechanical issues.

Way more ports are missed due to the weather - that usually means inability to safely berth, more often inability to tender. 

And sometimes a port (usually the last port-of-call) is cancelled because adverse weather has slowed the ship's progress - and as you're aware arriving late at the turnaround port has a massive effect on disembarkiing cruisers' onward travel arrangements, on embarking cruisers and on the turnaround logistics such as prepping cabins, replenishing supplies and a hundred other problems.

So if missed ports are your focus, concentrate on the reliability of the ports and the weather, rather than the reliability of the ship.

And sadly don't book a cruise - any cruise - because it includes a particular port that's on your bucket-list.

 

The reliability of ships can be equated to cars or mobile phones or anything with electric bits or oily bits.

In the same way that I wouldn't buy a new-model car or phone until others have been the guinea-pigs, I wouldn't book a maiden cruise but instead let others sail it until the ship had proven itself. To some extent the same after a major re-fit. 

 

And if I buy an old high-mileage car it's more likely to let me down.

Which brings us to Marella. 

All of their ships (and Fred Olsen's) are old and second-hand. Check their histories. Discovery was built in 1996 as Splendour of the Seas for Royal Caribbean. She's actually one of Marella's younger ships, but she's more likely to have problems than a ship built a couple of years ago. Marella's Dream was probably their worst purchase - built for Costa she was plagued with problems during her first season with them.

So Marella (and Fred Olsen) ships have a higher chance of a breakdown than most.

But we've sailed Marella almost a dozen times, on ships older than Discovery and two of them now scrapped. We missed just one port due to a breakdown. And, IIRC, four or five because of weather.

 

Marella do offer more-interesting itineraries than most (one reason why we've sailed with them) but for the more standard eastern Med itineraries I guess pretty-well every cruise line has offerings.

 

Edited to add. BTW. One advantage if the turnaround delay is on a Marella ship - most folk book a fly-cruise package with them, so changing or cancelling flights wouldn't be at the passenger's expense.

 

JB    

Edited December 3, 2018 by John Bull

[Heidi13]

10 hours ago, Suzycruisezy said:

We are booked on the Discovery in May for Idyllic Italia and Adriatic Explorer. I've just found out that the ship broke down last week and finally limped into Muscat two days late. It's missed ports, flights home have had to be changed to later date and those still onboard are now on their way to Dubai for repairs and will miss a lot of ports. Apparently the Discovery has broken down a number of times last year and this year, as have other ships in the Marella fleet. Therefor, with regret, we have decided to cancel and either book with another cruise line or take a land holiday.

Can anyone recommend a reliable cruise line in the Med and or say which ships to avoid?

 

Kind regards,

 

Susan

The marine industry in general and especially passenger shipping is highly regulated both by Flag States and Classification Societies. They dictate minimum inspections and rebuild intervals for all critical equipment, with components being inspected by Flag/Class during the rebuilds. However some companies and even some crews go beyond the minimum requirements.

 

The overall impacts by mechanical issues is extremely low, in my experience. While lack of, or poor maintenance may cause some issues, in my experience, outside influences such as log strikes or part failures probably have a greater cause. The biggest impact is caused by weather. These causes are unpredictable, so it is virtually impossible to provide any guarantee regarding delays or cancellations.

 

I have also seen a number of situations where sister ships of similar age have experienced different standards of cleanliness and operational reliability. This is generally a result of crew diligence.

 

So unfortunately, too many variables to make an educated recommendation for a reliable cruise line and/or which ships to avoid. Some will tell you to avoid older ships, however I have commanded a number of vessels over 40 years old that were as reliable as newer tonnage.

[KmomChicago]

If ports are your main focus, I recommend a land holiday instead.  I have cruised fewer than 10 times and I think on 3 of my cruises now, ports and itineraries were changed or cancelled altogether due to weather and rough seas.

 

I have visited several international destinations on land vacations (combination of partially escorted tours or completely on our own) and never missed an attraction on my bucket list when travelling this way.   My best trip ever was just flying in (visited a friend with a car) and drove around seeing whatever we pleased each day, finding cafes and attractions as we went (with some prior must-do's identified) and found B&B's in a guidebook each night (occasionally full and had to make a second choice but always worked out okay). 

 

I feel like this is blasphemy discussing a non-cruise option on Cruise Critic but depending on the objective of your trip, definitely a viable alternative.

[davecttr]

We need some actual REAL facts here. I can't find any information about Marella Discovery breaking down a lot. If a major component malfunctions fitting a replacement may take some time if the item has to be sourced and transported to a distant location.

 

My central heating gas boiler broke down 2 weeks ago and was fixed on Saturday, the earliest the engineer could call. It is 9 years old and one of the most reliable brands. The day before the engineer called the electric oil filled radiator I was using to heat the lounge broke down.

 

Stuff breaks

[Suzycruisezy]

I asked Tui for details of how many times the Discovery has broken down, duration and location of breakdowns so we can make a decision based on facts. They haven't got back to us yet. Meanwhile I'm trying to find out as much as possible so I don't make the same mistakes.

The info regarding age of ships etc. Is very helpful, thank you. I wasn't aware that the Thomson fleet is so old when I booked. As with all the car analogies, as some have said above, cars become unreliable when they get old, same with boilers (boilers are considered past it over 8 years old). I've never had a car break down because I don't keep old cars, I trade in for a new model so I have a reliable car. I will find out the age of the ship in future. I made the assumption that a well known company would ensure they deliver the product promised, in full working order, seems I shouldn't assume!

Will give it a week or so to see if Tui come back with the figures requested. It may not be as bad as it appears on the Discovery FB page. Will make final decision based on facts, although the long lists of things that can go wrong above is very off putting. I was clearly very lucky the last cruise went to plan!

Its a horrible situation to be put in. Breakdown doesn't just mean ports missed (which does matter, if ship is broken for six days as is the case just now, that isn't a cruise, that's sitting on a boat for a week), it's unbearably hot cabin and unable to sleep, worry about flights and extra parking costs etc. Compensation and insurance claims, distress and worry. Breaking down combined with bad weather is quite a frightening thought. Feeling gutted. My Mum was really looking forward to it, she loves cruising, that's why we were going. She said today she doesn't want to go on a land holiday which leaves me pretty stuck.

[John Bull]

2 hours ago, Suzycruisezy said:

I asked Tui for details of how many times the Discovery has broken down, duration and location of breakdowns so we can make a decision based on facts. They haven't got back to us yet. .

 

I was clearly very lucky the last cruise went to plan!

 

My Mum was really looking forward to it, she loves cruising, that's why we were going. .

 

 

You're stressing unnecessarily, Susan.

 

Just having a thread on a negative subject immediately puts it out of perspective. 

So I cringe when questions are asked on all sorts of possible problems -  from pick-pockets in Barcelona, through missing the sailing from a port-of-call visit, to cruise ships sinking. 

Nobody's going to give you cast-iron guarantees because these things happen - but not with the frequency that you'd imagine from forums.

 

If aeroplanes fell out of the sky on a regular basis, folk would stop flying.

By the same token, if cruise ships frequently broke down folk would stop cruising.

 

You weren't "very lucky the last cruise went to plan".

It's the folk who go on cruises that don't go to plan who are unlucky.

 

"Mum loves cruising". 

Then mum can talk to you person-to-person.

Has she suffered from cruise ship reliability issues? 

 

I doubt you'll get a worthwhile answer from Marella/TUI.

I don't have a high regard for their head office efficiency, but I have a huge regard for their ships' crews.

And what their ships lack in modern glitz they make up in spadefuls with their friendly homely atmosphere.

But if the remote prospect of unreliability is a big concern to you, switch to one of the many cruise lines whose ships are newer. As per my earlier post, the only breakdown that I've experienced was on a much older Thomson (now Marella) ship, and that cost us just one port-of-call.

 

Finally - dare I say it? - try to take a more positive view? 

 

JB 

 

.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by John Bull

[FlyerTalker]

OMG....your car might break down on the way to the airport.

 

Quick....cancel all vacations and let's stay no more than walking distance from home.

[Heidi13]

16 hours ago, Suzycruisezy said:

I asked Tui for details of how many times the Discovery has broken down, duration and location of breakdowns so we can make a decision based on facts. They haven't got back to us yet. Meanwhile I'm trying to find out as much as possible so I don't make the same mistakes.

The info regarding age of ships etc. Is very helpful, thank you. I wasn't aware that the Thomson fleet is so old when I booked. As with all the car analogies, as some have said above, cars become unreliable when they get old, same with boilers (boilers are considered past it over 8 years old). I've never had a car break down because I don't keep old cars, I trade in for a new model so I have a reliable car. I will find out the age of the ship in future. I made the assumption that a well known company would ensure they deliver the product promised, in full working order, seems I shouldn't assume!

Will give it a week or so to see if Tui come back with the figures requested. It may not be as bad as it appears on the Discovery FB page. Will make final decision based on facts, although the long lists of things that can go wrong above is very off putting. I was clearly very lucky the last cruise went to plan!

Its a horrible situation to be put in. Breakdown doesn't just mean ports missed (which does matter, if ship is broken for six days as is the case just now, that isn't a cruise, that's sitting on a boat for a week), it's unbearably hot cabin and unable to sleep, worry about flights and extra parking costs etc. Compensation and insurance claims, distress and worry. Breaking down combined with bad weather is quite a frightening thought. Feeling gutted. My Mum was really looking forward to it, she loves cruising, that's why we were going. She said today she doesn't want to go on a land holiday which leaves me pretty stuck.

Ships are fairly complex structures, so if you only requested the question noted above, TUI have 2 options - totally ignore your question due to lack of specifics, or bombard you with a list of thousands of defects (highly unlikely). Even some main engine defects and planned maintenance events are not known to passengers, as the majority do not affect the schedule.

 

Many years ago, on my ship, one of the engines threw a rod come through the block. We operated for about 2 months on 3 engines while a metallurgist made and inserted a repair to the block. Fortunately, we survived without any delays or schedule changes.

 

Ships are nothing like cars, as they are highly regulated. I have commanded many ships > 40 yrs of age and they were as reliable or more reliable than new tonnage.

 

Going with Marella, you are possibly on a fly cruise. Personally, if on a fly cruise, I would be more concerned with the plane getting me to the ship, as you probably arrive day of sailing.

 

Have no idea why you reference boilers, as very few passenger ships are steam, with most having diesel and/or gas turbines. Diesel engines have significantly greater reliability and longevity than gas/petrol engines. Have sailed with 60 yr old engines and never had any concerns over reliability, since they are stripped down about every 4 years.

 

As JB mentioned, cruise disruptions caused by mechanical issues are the exception, but if you can't accept these experiences and recommendations that we provided, perhaps cruising isn't for you.

[VMax1700]

13 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

OMG....your car might break down on the way to the airport.

 

Quick....cancel all vacations and let's stay no more than walking distance from home.

 

Bbbbbut maybe they will trip and sprain an ankle and not be able to walk that distance.

 

[mef_57]

Unfortunately, life is full of things one cannot control and that can go wrong, but every day we still get up and even if subconsciously - we expect it to be a good day. 

I remember my earlier cruise days when I was so looking forward to ports and had things all planned out.  It all went according to plan, but I know I would have been very disappointed if things hadn't.  Vacations were rare and special things, so I put a lot of store on them.  But as I have matured, I realize, that we have no control once we walk onto the ship. They may need to outrun weather, search for people overboard, miss ports, change their minds, have medical emergencies to respond to, and yes, have breakdowns....all inconveniencing their passengers.

The best you can do is take the advice about the age of ships, and don't sail in hurricane or tsunami seasons.  Other than that, you are at the mercy of others.

I get the impression that you would be more gutted than Mom.  I suspect Mom has had to roll with a lot of surprises in her life and will be happy to just change her routine or spend time with you and others.

You might be stressing yourself too much trying too hard to make something perfect for Mom - who might not have the expectation of 'perfect'.

If the prospect of something going wrong is too much, then take a land trip or perhaps a 2-3 day cruise.  No guarantees there either, but on a short trip perhaps expectations and investment will be less.

[navybankerteacher]

15 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

OMG....your car might break down on the way to the airport.

 

Quick....cancel all vacations and let's stay no more than walking distance from home.

 

And line up continuing cancellable reservations at a motel within walking distance .... to be prepared for a tree falling on your home.

[JMorris271]

It's not the tree to stress about. Its the ships mate carelessly  reversing the prop causing it to propel into the air, then landing on the tree that lands on the house.  Stuff happens but not that often. Relax a bit.

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

 

Have no idea why you reference boilers, as very few passenger ships are steam, with most having diesel and/or gas turbines. Diesel engines have significantly greater reliability and longevity than gas/petrol engines. Have sailed with 60 yr old engines and never had any concerns over reliability, since they are stripped down about every 4 years.

.

 

I worked in the loss control/risk management world. When reliability is important, the last thing we wanted to see was a spark ignition (gaso) engine.   Thanks for the comments.  

[Suzycruisezy]

The Discovery is still waiting for parts. Apparently those sent didn't fit. Regardless they plan to sail on Friday, very slowly from Dubai, were they've been all week, to Mumbai, without aircon, then lay up in Mumbai with a full compliment of passengers.

Some of those flying out today and tomorrow have said they'd prefer the cruise to be cancelled, others not. Apparently the cabins are unbearably hot without air con.

the points I replied to about cars and boilers are replies to people telling me a ship is like a car or boiler, obviously not.

im worried about the distress to my Mum who cruised many years ago with my late father. She's disappointed that Thomson, now Tui isn't up to the standard she remembers. That's why I'm asking. I don't want us stuck in port for the holiday or long day after day on a broken down ship. The Discovery has had problems throughout the year, with breakdown in May and apparently August. I'm just trying to get the facts. Is it so bad to ask if the ship has inherent faults?

Appreciate the helpful and knowledgeable comments above, these do ease my mind. The "Stuff happens, cruising is not for you." Comments are not helpful, please desist.

I just want my Mum to have the lovely, distress free holiday she deserves. She's said that she would be horrified if it broke down at sea or stuck in port for a week. I'm between a rock and a hard place and would appreciate a bit of kindness and consideration that some of us expect, when booking, to get what we pay for.

When we went into the Tui shop last Monday, the agent had no idea the Discovery was in trouble. Others on the FB page are saying the same. Flights have been changed at very short notice to other airports. Including returning flights. 

If I wanted to go on a mystery tour that could end up being a land holiday, I wouldn't book a cruise! You live and learn and thus, am asking. We have time to change our minds, expensive as it will be. 

 

Those on the Discovery now have missed most of their ports and with those joining the ship tomorrow will miss most of theirs. Tui know there's a problem but haven't told those joining the ship?

This doesn't give me confidence in the ship or company. Would you take your mum on a ship that is broken and doesn't have air conditioning from Dubai to India?

[Suzycruisezy]

Further to my post above: We went to the shop (long drive, we live rurally) to speak to the agent face to face. He was as helpful as he could be and promised he'd out our questions to Tui. He also assured us that we could transfer everything we've paid so far to a land holiday. Which is great! But Mum doesn't want a land holiday. She went on one once and didn't like it. Aaargh! 

So it's either cancel and lose the deposit or go. But she doesn't want to go on the Discovery or any other ship that's broken down for a week or more. So... Stuffed?

Thanks again for the helpful comments above, might help both of us decide to gamble it. It could be her last holiday, that's why it's so important and no stress. X

[ldubs]

If I'm reading this correctly, we have a cruise ship that has some current mechanical problems that apparently resulted in disembarkation two days late.  I'm kind of surprised at the number of "don't worry about it, stuff happens responses".  Yes, unanticipated stuff happens, but this has already happened and it seems reasonable to wonder about the status of the ship soonest so plans can be rearranged.  

 

I hope the OP gets some positive answers before they have to jump on a plane.