Husband nervous about escalating China/Canada relations and Shanghai departure port

[Betty in Cozumel]

We are taking a 14 night cruise that starts in Shanghai in March.  My husband is getting nervous about the escalating relations between our two countries.  First because of the recent arrest of Huawei chief financial officer Meng Wanzhou at Vancouver's airport and then China warned Canada of consequences for its actions.  Now a former Canadian diplomat has been detained (arrested) in China.  Are they related?  Who knows.  And how does this affect Canadian tourists going to China.

 

Still two and a half months until we sail but things could get better....or worse by then.

 

[travelbunny60]

Could't agree more.  Just received notification we needed to be finger printed before December 18th for our cruise in April.  Attempting to get out of trip, this can't end well.

[Betty in Cozumel]

5 minutes ago, travelbunny60 said:

Could't agree more.  Just received notification we needed to be finger printed before December 18th for our cruise in April.  Attempting to get out of trip, this can't end well.

 

What??????   Who sent you the notification?

 

Part of the entry process is fingerprint and photo.  Why do you need to do it ahead of time?

Edited December 11, 2018 by Betty in Cozumel

[travelbunny60]

Our travel agent just sent this notice:  We have received notification from the Chinese Embassy that all Canadians traveling to China in 2019 will now be required to get finger printed at the time of application.  Our supplier, China Star Holiday will no longer be allowed to apply for Visas on your behalf as of Jan 1, 2019.  You will be required to set up an appointment with a China Visa Service Centre to be finger printed and submit your application in person. Further information and instruction on this process to come later on.

We are going on a Yangtze River Cruise.

[Philob]

The change was announced Nov 27th prior to Ms. Meng's arrest on Dec 1st.

 

http://ca.chineseembassy.org/eng/lsyw/gzrz/vusa/t1616395.htm

Canada will begin requiring "biometrics" of Chinese citizens applying for Canadian visas effective Dec 31st.

 

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/biometrics.asp

Edited December 11, 2018 by Philob

[Betty in Cozumel]

2 hours ago, travelbunny60 said:

Our travel agent just sent this notice:  We have received notification from the Chinese Embassy that all Canadians traveling to China in 2019 will now be required to get finger printed at the time of application.  Our supplier, China Star Holiday will no longer be allowed to apply for Visas on your behalf as of Jan 1, 2019.  You will be required to set up an appointment with a China Visa Service Centre to be finger printed and submit your application in person. Further information and instruction on this process to come later on.

We are going on a Yangtze River Cruise.

 

I think I may still be okay because we are not getting a regular visa to China.  We are using the 144 hour transit without visa (TWOV).  We have pre-registered on the Chinese government website.  It says we will need to do a photo and fingerprint at that time and show documentation for travel to a 3rd country before the 144 hrs is up.

 

I'll keep an eye on it anyway and if we get there and can't get into China we'll hop a plane to the cruise's next port.

[gnome12]

8 hours ago, Betty in Cozumel said:

We are taking a 14 night cruise that starts in Shanghai in March.  My husband is getting nervous about the escalating relations between our two countries.  First because of the recent arrest of Huawei chief financial officer Meng Wanzhou at Vancouver's airport and then China warned Canada of consequences for its actions.  Now a former Canadian diplomat has been detained (arrested) in China.  Are they related?  Who knows.  And how does this affect Canadian tourists going to China.

 

Still two and a half months until we sail but things could get better....or worse by then.

 

I heard on tonight's news that Canada is considering a travel advisory for China. I suggest you monitor travel.gc.ca for further developments.

[Miaminice]

No matter what happens and what is behind the political game of chess, creating problems for regular tourists is not what China or any other nation wants - it doesn´t "help" or create the desired attention. 

So unless you are a very important "newsworthy" person, diplomat or politician don´t worry and enjoy your time. It is a destination worth seeing and learning about.

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Miaminice

[3Shelaghs]

Have the same questions as posted..... Chinese Embassy did indeed announce the new rules prior to her arrest, but assume all of this was flying under the radar way before she was arrested. See the news today, some progress noted with Michael Kovrig detention... but we are now rethinking our plans.

Esp.... new rules re finger printing and photographing with 1-1 interviews for Cdns at Chinese Embassies.

The Chinese travel visa is huge$$$...and their web site doesn't say, whether the fingerprinting and photographs are included in Visa price. Does anyone know?

[bennybear]

We are concerned too.   Things could just become very difficult or not.   They could change their mind about allowing visitors etc.  Not sure if it is worth the hassle.  We have only a few days before penalties accrue.

[diesel1973]

HAve been to China twice,once in 2016 and Sept.2018 First trip was great and second was amazing.  First was 10 day land tour(4  city's) second was 14day land tour(6 city's) including 4 day Yangtze River cruise. UNtil there is a ban issued I would not worry. BOth trips were hassle free and the Chinese people are the most kind and helpful people. TRavel anywhere lately has its problems. I would strongly suggest that you do not miss this intriguing country. OUr next stop is Thailand.   

ALso have been to Russia recently with no problems! HAppy Travels

[Betty in Cozumel]

15 minutes ago, diesel1973 said:

HAve been to China twice,once in 2016 and Sept.2018 First trip was great and second was amazing.  First was 10 day land tour(4  city's) second was 14day land tour(6 city's) including 4 day Yangtze River cruise. UNtil there is a ban issued I would not worry. BOth trips were hassle free and the Chinese people are the most kind and helpful people. TRavel anywhere lately has its problems. I would strongly suggest that you do not miss this intriguing country. OUr next stop is Thailand.   

ALso have been to Russia recently with no problems! HAppy Travels

We've been to China a few times and always had a visa.  This time (and only because our cruise starts there) we are going to Shanghai using the 144 hr transit without a visa (TWOV). 

 

My husband was born in Hong Kong before it went back to China, but when registering for the TWOV, the Chinese government site considers him born in China. 

 

Maybe he'll get in and I won't.  Lol

[diesel1973]

I purchased the 10 year visa from consulate in Chicago. PLan to use it more for areas in western China. they fingerprinted us this time at airport on arrival and departing China. YOu will need paperwork showing your schedule in China. WE went thru tour co. And they had all paperwork provided to us. SEems like China needs to know where you are at all times,just like Russia. JUst go and enjoy.

[Philob]

16 hours ago, diesel1973 said:

I purchased the 10 year visa from consulate in Chicago. PLan to use it more for areas in western China. they fingerprinted us this time at airport on arrival and departing China. YOu will need paperwork showing your schedule in China. WE went thru tour co. And they had all paperwork provided to us. SEems like China needs to know where you are at all times,just like Russia. JUst go and enjoy.

 

Once you get your 10 year visa, you can come and go as many times per the terms of the visa, no additional pre-trip paperwork is necessary.   Upon arrival you'll have to complete a Arrival/Departure form that'll ask where are you going to stay and when are you going to leave and how you are going to leave.  Keep the Departure side of the form with your passport and keep it safe.

 

If you are planning independent travel outside of the Tier 1 city areas some hotels will not accept foreigners.  Even with reservations they'll turn you away when you try to check in seeing that your a foreigner.  Back in the day only certain hotels where allowed to accept foreigners.  The rule was lifted for the 2008 Olympics, but a lot of the hotels outside Tier 1 cities still follow the old rules.  If they do allow you to check in they may call for a police officer to come over and look over your "papers", make copies etc.

 

If you are not staying at a hotel, but at someone's house, you are supposed to go over to the nearest police substation and register  your stay.  We never did, but we're pretty sure an "Uncle or Auntie" from the neighborhood watch reported us.

 

If you're heading for Tibet or Uygurs country you'll have to go with a escorted tour or get a special (in your dreams) permit.

 

Foreigners are required to present their passports when picking up train tickets bought online or not.

  

 

 

  

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Philob

[diesel1973]

Thank you very much for the info. Don't know if I would attempt a trip there without going thru a tour co. Might cost a little more but is well.worth it.

[Betty in Cozumel]

1 hour ago, bennybear said:

They have detained more than 200 Canadians.  

 

Detained where?  What i your source?

 

My husband has been watching/reading news from both sides and the Chinese are telling so much more than the North American side.  He has not said anything about these 200.  Just the 3 with the last one being a school teacher who seems to have been working in China illegally.

[3Shelaghs]

Not going to dispute the amazing things to be seen, nor the innocent Chinese people, but after reading entry /exit requirements etc etc, and then the political stuff, environment and humanity abuses, on and on.... sometimes you just need to sit back and ask yourself how great your desire is to see China, and doyou really want to pour your money into this? Historically none of this is new, it ebbs and flows. Spying doesnt stop, innocents still occasionally caught in the fray. Tourists still travel, and all works out, but this time, we’ve actually decided China is officially off our bucket list ...for good. Not wasting anymore time worrying about a govt respecting thier tourists when they don’t even respect their own people.

To all the brave souls trekking onward, I would keep an eye on the Cdn travel advisory list after xmas, and. Mr Trumps behaviour with China. I also agree the use of a good China tour company is wise.

[txflood33]

On 12/20/2018 at 7:53 PM, diesel1973 said:

I purchased the 10 year visa from consulate in Chicago. PLan to use it more for areas in western China. they fingerprinted us this time at airport on arrival and departing China. YOu will need paperwork showing your schedule in China. WE went thru tour co. And they had all paperwork provided to us. SEems like China needs to know where you are at all times,just like Russia. JUst go and enjoy.

 

Greatly appreciate all the info. Wife and I will be taking our first trip to SE Asia with a lot of time in China. We are also in the Chicago area so planned on using the consulate downtown as well.

 

A few questions....

We will be on a Celebrity cruise....will my invoice emailed from Celebrity be enough to show our plans/intentions if it's not paid in full yet?

We have booked a private tour for our 3 days in Beijing. I'm assuming this paperwork emailed to us from the tour company showing the dates, stops, and hotel would be sufficient...correct?

Since it's still too early to book flights, we don't have hotel booked yet for Hong Kong(start of cruise) or Shanghai(end of cruise). Will this be an issue? Do I need to have air and hotel booked before going in for our visas?

 

Thanks in advance

[Philob]

9 minutes ago, txflood33 said:

 

Greatly appreciate all the info. Wife and I will be taking our first trip to SE Asia with a lot of time in China. We are also in the Chicago area so planned on using the consulate downtown as well.

 

A few questions....

We will be on a Celebrity cruise....will my invoice emailed from Celebrity be enough to show our plans/intentions if it's not paid in full yet?

We have booked a private tour for our 3 days in Beijing. I'm assuming this paperwork emailed to us from the tour company showing the dates, stops, and hotel would be sufficient...correct?

Since it's still too early to book flights, we don't have hotel booked yet for Hong Kong(start of cruise) or Shanghai(end of cruise). Will this be an issue? Do I need to have air and hotel booked before going in for our visas?

 

Thanks in advance

The earliest you can apply for a Chinese visa is 90 days from your date of departure with a recommended 30-60 days out.

 

Within this time you should be beyond final payment for your cruise and all your other reservations booked.  Use those confirmations for your visa paper work. 

 

IMO while it takes about 3-4 working days for them to process your visa, I would still do it early in case of "stuff happening".

 

Once your done with this initial paperwork you don't have to do it again for the next 10 years (global political stuff aside).

 

[diesel1973]

When I initially applied for Visa I waited for tour co. to send me my itinerary before applying. It was very complete with flight info.,hotel info.,schedule,etc. They review this info. and I would think if there is something lacking they would notify you. THeir online site explains what is required and has a downloadable application form. You will need to take 2 trips to  Consulate,1 to apply,1 to pay and pick up Visa.You should be very excited as this is a very intrigueing country. Can't wait to return!

[Host Bonjour]

On 12/22/2018 at 12:58 AM, 3Shelaghs said:

Not going to dispute the amazing things to be seen, nor the innocent Chinese people, but after reading entry /exit requirements etc etc, and then the political stuff, environment and humanity abuses, on and on.... sometimes you just need to sit back and ask yourself how great your desire is to see China, and doyou really want to pour your money into this? Historically none of this is new, it ebbs and flows. Spying doesnt stop, innocents still occasionally caught in the fray. Tourists still travel, and all works out, but this time, we’ve actually decided China is officially off our bucket list ...for good. Not wasting anymore time worrying about a govt respecting thier tourists when they don’t even respect their own people.

To all the brave souls trekking onward, I would keep an eye on the Cdn travel advisory list after xmas, and. Mr Trumps behaviour with China. I also agree the use of a good China tour company is wise.

 

Great post and you make many good points. I’d still think of going to China though especially if it has been on your bucket list. Why? 

 

As as many have pointed out, advisories exist around the world most of the time, either for an entire country or places within one country. That includes the US that now is also under constant video surveillance and security checks, at least in large urban centers and metro areas. Anyone can quickly be tracked or found anywhere. The reasons why, when and by who, are what vary, that’s all.

 

Also, lots and lots of governments have a long history of treating their people (and especially others) well such as China (Mao) Russia, (too many to list) pretty much everyone that colonized Africa, various empires throughout the ages, American colonizers....so Chins isn’t alone in this. They’re not alone in communist, clandestine government either. They’re just big and becoming more modern. But there is an interdependence between China and the US/Western countries that neither can exist without which includes travel/tourism as part of commerce. It’s vital.

 

i went once and it was truly fascinating, that’s why I think it’s worth going to experience. I went on a tour from Hong Kong where I was already visiting a work colleague that took a long term assignment there and lived it (HK) and the trip was more than I ever expected especially from a cultural, sociological and emotional view, I knew there’d be history but I didn’t expect to be so drawn in by everything. When I got home I began reading books about China, getting into Chinese Art, drinking more tea and seeking out films etc. 

 

But its impossible not to notice the difference of living within the confines of communism and it’s effects on people and things you see around you. Sometimes it’s subtle and sometimes it’s quite obvious, blatant. Perhaps some travelers wouldn’t even notice at all! I think it’s not so likely to sense it in Shanghai, such a shiny, sparkly, bustling, glittery metropolis. I liked our countryside outings the most because it was just the outdoors, gorgeous scenes and what seemed like regular people, sometimes chickens wandering around. Or end up being the “chicken” as a blonde American to a group of Asian (Mongolian i think) travelers who it seemed hadn’t ever seen one. Or maybe were just collecting pictures. Whatever. 

 

I’d go back if only I could do a rail trip across the more remote parts of the country or go out to Chengdu. Tibet was always a dream but it seems that’s gotten largely  wrecked in spite...I don’t know, itd be hard but I’m seasoned now, lol. And I know how it is to get pulled aside, questioned, etc. Our little van was pulled over for about 45 minutes but they didn’t want the papers of we six in the van; instead the traffic circle man spent all this time with the driver and guide. Who knows why. I have a second passport to use if it seemed like it was a good move but that’s probably not where my visa would be (or maybe) who knows what I’d do in a hot moment, but mostly, I didn’t yet have it when I was in China the first time and never felt like I needed it even though I *definitely* knew I was in CHINA. Whatever would they want with me? 

 

Lastly, if ever there *was* a moment to have a doubt it was upon going through immigration at arrival. We had come by boat and were greeted by soldiers in red and greed uniforms, guns etc. which always creeped me out (not anymore, long guns in the subway and Grand Central) and things are mostly ok until a commotion breaks out and there’s a soldier yelling at someone comimg in. Kiiiiiind of stressful because it’s so not like the TSA just yelling to put your laptops in the bin! Because of course it’s in Mandarin and it’s loud and it’s fierce. So, if I were having thoughts on bailing on the trip, it would have been right then. Instead, I just told myself, you are in China now....just go with it and keep your sometimes loud Brooklyn voice down 😎 and see what they have here. 

 

It’s worth going to see once and safety matters anywhere but it’s also relevant to many factors and considerations so consider facts and how they may or may not relate to your situation. 

 

Oh and two great reads: The Private Life of Chairman Mao//////// White Swans

[Betty in Cozumel]

I am going to comment since I was the one who started this thread.

 

Hubby is Chinese born in Hong Kong but has been a Canadian citizen for about 44 years.  He was nervous at first but he has been watching the news lately and there is a lot more being said by the Chinese than Western media.  Yes there are a lot of Canadians (and US citizens too) being arrested or held but in each case it was because they were doing something illegal.   Yes China never honors dual citizenship but he only has Canadian citizen though when we registered for the TWOV it put his place of Birth (HK) under China versus Other like me.

 

He is no longer concerned that we will have a problem.  Someone posted that a couple they met on their cruise said it took them 4 hrs to get through the process.  I am hoping it will be faster for us as we have pre-registered and can go to a kiosk for the first step before the regular immigration line.  We'll see.  Who knows.  It might be the busiest time for arrivals.  (Saturday at 4pm).  It is what it is.  Last Saturday here in Cozumel the immigration line was 3 hrs long.  At least hubby reads the language and he's fluent in Cantonese and knows some Mandarin & Shanghainese.  We aren't going anywhere except the hotel so we will stay calm and go with the flow.

[bennybear]

The US has upped its advisory level.  We have changed our plans.  Just don’t need the concern.  Maybe later.  There are still so many places to explore.