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Ship Horn Signals


Nicholas Kolaric
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International Rules of the Road

 

https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navRules/navrules.pdf

 

see part D rules 32 thru 37

 

there is no signal which consists of 4 prolong blast ....

 

a PILOT vessel in restricted visibility may augment the regular sound signal appropriate for the vessel type/size/situation with 4 short blast (rule 35j)

 

Rule 36 allows a vessel to make any sound signal to attract attention that can not be mistaken for any signal authorized elsewhere in the rules ....

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5 hours ago, Nicholas Kolaric said:

I was wondering if anyone knows about ship horn signals and what certain blasts mean.

What does the combination of 4 long and 1 short blast mean or just 4 long blasts?

I'm guessing what you may have heard is actually closer to five "not-as-long-as-you-think" blasts. It is not uncommon to hear a larger less maneuverable ship use the five blasts to basically tell smaller boats in their path to "get out of the way." 

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2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I'm guessing what you may have heard is actually closer to five "not-as-long-as-you-think" blasts. It is not uncommon to hear a larger less maneuverable ship use the five blasts to basically tell smaller boats in their path to "get out of the way." 

Even if they were long blasts, this is not an automated thing, and someone could have kept their finger pressed on the button too long, or the air solenoid for the horn is sticking.  You are right, it most likely was intended as 5 short blasts, but that is really "what are your intentions?" or, as I was taught "you are standing into danger", more than "get out of my way".

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rule 34d

 

(d) When vessels in sight of one another are approaching each other and from any cause either vessel fails to understand the intentions or actions of the other, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other to avoid collision, the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle.

 

This signal is used very infrequently IME and frankly I doubt it is what you heard as it is almost an admission of guilt as to the situation since BOTH SHIPS are tasked by rule 8 to take early and ample action to prevent 'doubt' .... altho courts have also used failure to sound the signal a significant factor in many cases (both recent USN collisions as I recall).  If a ship sounds 5 short they are probably already outside the limits of rule 8!

 

In my years on the bridge I never had occasion to use this signal.

 

p.s. in the rules there is no such thing as a 'long blast''

 

short and prolonged are defined but 'long' is a way to fail the CG test!

 

Rule 32

(b) The term “short blast” means a blast of about one second’s duration.

(c) The term “prolonged blast” means a blast of from four to six seconds’ duration.

Edited by Capt_BJ
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Thanks, Capt, as usual you are correct in your terminology, but then again, its been over 35 years since I last took a USCG exam.  And, BTW, I didn't think I was taking a CG exam, merely discussing something with a likely non-maritime lay person.

 

As for the mix up possible, someone who is concerned about a possible situation going sideways does not always react exactly as they might in calmer times.  Many times, there is a time delay between when the button is pushed and when the horn starts to blow, and so they keep their finger on the button.  However, just as there is a time delay between pushing the button and the horn sounding, there is the same delay between letting up on the button and the horn stopping.  So, you press the button, nothing happens, so you keep it pressed for 3-4 seconds, and then it starts to sound, and you let up thinking it will stop right away, making a short blast, but in fact it will continue to sound for the 3-4-5 seconds you held the button down, making a prolonged blast.

 

And the signal is used all the time, mainly by ships alerting the whack job recreational boaters along the Florida coast that they are "standing into danger" by passing too close to the ship, which cannot maneuver as quickly as the boat, and possibly into the blind spot ahead of the ship, which can extend for a quarter mile or more.

Edited by chengkp75
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and use in the whack job is inappropriate ..... as the signals only apply when "two ships are in sight of each other"

 

in a crowded waterway when there are a BUNCH of boats about, who are you signalling to????  

 

3 boats in site equals "special circumstances"

 

once again you'd fail the rules of the road test

 

"you are standing into danger because I can not maneuver" is not in the rules <unless claiming constrained by draft which requires a special day shape or lights> ..... perchance the boat ACTUALLY HAD the right of way by the rules ...... the rule of 'bigger wins' does not appear in the actual rules ..... <altho I'll aqueous to common sense here> 

 

and I stand by my statement that in all my time on the bridge AND in the Captains chair ..... can't recall hearing the signal and KNOW I didn't sound it.

 

>>>>>

for OP

 

there is no signal of 4 long (or prolonged) blasts nor 4 long and one short

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

back in the 80's Seaman's Church Institute was (still is) a training place for mariners.  After a couple of back to back incidents involving loss of life for USCG cutters, it was decided USCG ship folks should pass the same test as the licensed deck officers on commercial ships.  Good idea ... 'cept when they gave the test to the guys on the ships the failure rate was HUGE.  USCG started sending folks with orders to cutters to a 40 hour rules of the road coarse at Seaman's Church Institute in NYC.  They spent time on the rules (pass the test) AND more importantly on how the courts had interpreted the rules.  I attended this course - it was EXCELLENT - and strove to share what I learned with my deck officers ever since .....

 

 

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5 hours ago, wwcruisers said:

I heard Disney Wonder's ships' horn play "When you wish upon a star", as they sailed out past us, in the Port of Miami -- VERY charming! ☺️

Or reminiscent of a car horn playing La Cucaracha, depending on your perspective.

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1 hour ago, Capt_BJ said:

and use in the whack job is inappropriate ..... as the signals only apply when "two ships are in sight of each other"

 

in a crowded waterway when there are a BUNCH of boats about, who are you signalling to????  

 

3 boats in site equals "special circumstances"

 

once again you'd fail the rules of the road test

 

"you are standing into danger because I can not maneuver" is not in the rules <unless claiming constrained by draft which requires a special day shape or lights> ..... perchance the boat ACTUALLY HAD the right of way by the rules ...... the rule of 'bigger wins' does not appear in the actual rules ..... <altho I'll aqueous to common sense here> 

 

and I stand by my statement that in all my time on the bridge AND in the Captains chair ..... can't recall hearing the signal and KNOW I didn't sound it.

 

>>>>>

for OP

 

there is no signal of 4 long (or prolonged) blasts nor 4 long and one short

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

back in the 80's Seaman's Church Institute was (still is) a training place for mariners.  After a couple of back to back incidents involving loss of life for USCG cutters, it was decided USCG ship folks should pass the same test as the licensed deck officers on commercial ships.  Good idea ... 'cept when they gave the test to the guys on the ships the failure rate was HUGE.  USCG started sending folks with orders to cutters to a 40 hour rules of the road coarse at Seaman's Church Institute in NYC.  They spent time on the rules (pass the test) AND more importantly on how the courts had interpreted the rules.  I attended this course - it was EXCELLENT - and strove to share what I learned with my deck officers ever since .....

 

 

When did I say anything about a crowded waterway?  When did I say anything about 3 boats in sight?  You're reading things into the test questions that aren't there.  And I'd stack the many Captains I've sailed with whose centuries of combined experience is at least a match for yours.  But, anyway, have a nice day Capt, always pleasant to have you share your command experience.  

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9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And the signal is used all the time, mainly by ships alerting the whack job recreational boaters along the Florida coast that they are "standing into danger" by passing too close to the ship, which cannot maneuver as quickly as the boat, and possibly into the blind spot ahead of the ship, which can extend for a quarter mile or more.

Sadly, I have had a need to utilise the 5 short many times.

 

Navigating a large passenger Ro/Ro in narrow channels at 20 kts, with multiple recreational boaters is the perfect conditions. While it may not be in compliance with an examiners definition of the Col Regs, I can attest that more often than not it is effective. Saved me from having to crash stop many times.

 

When running with a 6 kt current, an early series of whistle signals has convinced many boaters that crossing astern of us and dealing with the wash was vastly superior than the suicide option of trying to cut ahead of us.  During the summer months, we dealt with these issues multiple times a day, as too many sailboats learned that steam gives way to sail. Unfortunately they think it still applies when using their engine.

 

While I agree with Capt BJ that our operation may not meet an examiners interpretation of the Col Regs, in reality, the Col Regs were not written to address many of the situations we experienced, without taking fairly liberal interpretations. 

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21 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Even if they were long blasts, this is not an automated thing, and someone could have kept their finger pressed on the button too long, or the air solenoid for the horn is sticking.  You are right, it most likely was intended as 5 short blasts, but that is really "what are your intentions?" or, as I was taught "you are standing into danger", more than "get out of my way".

 

Doesn't that basically mean, get out of my way idiot???? 😄

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10 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Sadly, I have had a need to utilise the 5 short many times.

 

Navigating a large passenger Ro/Ro in narrow channels at 20 kts, with multiple recreational boaters is the perfect conditions. While it may not be in compliance with an examiners definition of the Col Regs, I can attest that more often than not it is effective. Saved me from having to crash stop many times.

 

When running with a 6 kt current, an early series of whistle signals has convinced many boaters that crossing astern of us and dealing with the wash was vastly superior than the suicide option of trying to cut ahead of us.  During the summer months, we dealt with these issues multiple times a day, as too many sailboats learned that steam gives way to sail. Unfortunately they think it still applies when using their engine.

 

While I agree with Capt BJ that our operation may not meet an examiners interpretation of the Col Regs, in reality, the Col Regs were not written to address many of the situations we experienced, without taking fairly liberal interpretations. 

 

My rule was, if you are that much bigger, I will stay out of your way.  No matter who was right, I would be squashed.

 

Too many recreation boaters are idiots.  Just like any other pursuit.

 

I remember one day on the Chesapeake, a power boat sped up to cross ahead of us (under sail), then got mad, at US. as they realized they needed to haul all their lines is, as we have a KEEL sticking down. 😄

 

Edited by SRF
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10 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

My rule was, if you are that much bigger, I will stay out of your way.  No matter who was right, I would be squashed.

 

 

So true.

 

Never tried small boating, but would have been cognisant that fibreglass would not stand up well to 20,000 tons of steel. 🙂

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3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

So true.

 

Never tried small boating, but would have been cognisant that fibreglass would not stand up well to 20,000 tons of steel. 🙂

 

My sailboat was Kevlar, so a BIT better. 😄

 

In fact, Canadian made boat, Laser 28.

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6 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Doesn't that basically mean, get out of my way idiot???? 😄

Gotta love cruising down the Gulf Stream, off Lauderdale, and there's a sport fisherman idling and you see you've got a comfortable 1/2 mile CPA, when suddenly they wake up and decide to speed across your bow at 25 knots about 200 feet in front of the bow.

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19 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Gotta love cruising down the Gulf Stream, off Lauderdale, and there's a sport fisherman idling and you see you've got a comfortable 1/2 mile CPA, when suddenly they wake up and decide to speed across your bow at 25 knots about 200 feet in front of the bow.

 

My Dad tells of entering Hong Kong harbor in the 50s on a carrier.  And the various local boats disappearing under the bow as they crossed.

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