Help! No passport, no birth certificate!

[GeezerCouple]

4 hours ago, Sea Hag said:

I don't know if you'll have enough time to get this done, but this is how I got a passport without a birth certificate. At the time, my Dad was still living, and I have an older brother. They signed notarized documents saying that I was who I said I was. And I got a census record from the state where I was born that was a couple of years or so after my birth year. That census record showed me living with my family and had my age and full name. The passport office took these things as verification and issued me a passport. Which I intend to never let expire, lest I need to go through this again.

 

This was some time ago, but I went through something like this.

 

For some complicated reasons, I needed to get passports for two of my children, but in names that were different from their birth certificates (which I had).

 

Bottom line, we had to get signed statements from a few people of certain categories, e.g., teacher, neighbor, etc., each stating that they knew the child/children as "the new name ONLY".  I also had to sign some affidavits as well as provide an explanation (no surprise!).

The children then had passports issued as "FirstA LastA KA FirstB LastB", where "B" was their current names.  "KA" was "Known As" (NOT "Also Known As"), because the children were not "also known" as anything else.

 

Crossing borders with them was sometimes interesting, but at least this way, their was *something* on the passport that matched MY last name.  

 

I found it a fascinating process, as none of the people signing the affidavits really *knew* that the children were, indeed, originally known - or were the same persons - as the names on the birth certificates.

Although this was way before various political issues, there was still the possibility of "taking a child from a parent", so I'm still surprised this really did work.

 

Point is, there are ways to deal with this if regular paperwork is *really *unavailable, but it might take some time, and some signed affidavits, etc.

GC

[CoyoteDreemurr]

All 3 of us were born in the US, to clarify that. I just find it ridiculous that she can't get a birth certificate without getting a legal name change. She was born with one spelling, but everything uses another spelling ever since she was in 4th grade. It's still the same name, just spelled different. 

[Sea Hag]

53 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

When was this?

About 15 years ago. I've renewed it once, and it has about 5 years or so left to expiration, so around 15 years ago.

[brillohead]

10 minutes ago, CoyoteDreemurr said:

All 3 of us were born in the US, to clarify that. I just find it ridiculous that she can't get a birth certificate without getting a legal name change. She was born with one spelling, but everything uses another spelling ever since she was in 4th grade. It's still the same name, just spelled different. 

She can get a birth certificate -- she just can't get one in the "newer" spelling of her name.  

Has she contacted the entity that issued her original birth certificate to find out the easiest way to get this fixed?

 

[Elaine5715]

3 minutes ago, Sea Hag said:

About 15 years ago. I've renewed it once, and it has about 5 years or so left to expiration, so around 15 years ago.

Everything has changed in 15 years.  

[Elaine5715]

The name on the birth certificate is the legal name.  My biodad put the name he wanted on my birth certificate.  If I want it changed, I need to go to court and have it changed.  

[OCruisers]

On 2/11/2019 at 4:37 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

At the same time OP does the above, contact your congressman/woman. Amazingly, that often helps "grease the wheels."

 

So True!  You'll be amazed at how helpful they can be. 

[GeezerCouple]

Aliases are still used.

 

You might want to try that.

 

You've got the original name, and the "alias", which is simply a different spelling.

 

That type of thing is still used by someone who marries, changes the name legally, but still "uses" the former name. 

Or someone who has a "professional name", etc.

Those are not "legal name changes", just a "different name *used*".

 

Depending upon circumstances, it would be issued with an "AKA" or a "KA".

 

GC

Edited February 13, 2019 by GeezerCouple

[Sea Hag]

5 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Everything has changed in 15 years.  

 

2 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

The name on the birth certificate is the legal name.  My biodad put the name he wanted on my birth certificate.  If I want it changed, I need to go to court and have it changed.  

Highly likely that is has in some respects, but there still must be some mechanism for getting a passport when you simply can't get a birth certificate. In my case, a birth certificate doesn't exist. I had the hospital copy, which my parents should have filed and didn't. It wasn't a real birth certificate and wouldn't have worked to get a passport anyway. I didn't know that, and lost the hospital copy somehow. The state of Indiana has no birth record for me at all. As I said, it's highly likely that some aspects of this problem have changed, but I'd be really surprised if a census record and notarized statements were no longer acceptable. I'd be very interested to see some information on this, if you can post a link.

[Julie MacCoy]

33 minutes ago, CoyoteDreemurr said:

All 3 of us were born in the US, to clarify that. I just find it ridiculous that she can't get a birth certificate without getting a legal name change. She was born with one spelling, but everything uses another spelling ever since she was in 4th grade. It's still the same name, just spelled different. 

The spelling was changed when she was in the fourth grade?  Why didn't she tell her teacher or the principal that her name wasn't being spelled correctly?  And if they didn't believe her, why didn't she tell her parents so that they could straighten things out?  

[Elaine5715]

7 minutes ago, Sea Hag said:

 

Highly likely that is has in some respects, but there still must be some mechanism for getting a passport when you simply can't get a birth certificate. In my case, a birth certificate doesn't exist. I had the hospital copy, which my parents should have filed and didn't. It wasn't a real birth certificate and wouldn't have worked to get a passport anyway. I didn't know that, and lost the hospital copy somehow. The state of Indiana has no birth record for me at all. As I said, it's highly likely that some aspects of this problem have changed, but I'd be really surprised if a census record and notarized statements were no longer acceptable. I'd be very interested to see some information on this, if you can post a link.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/citizenship-evidence.html

[Elaine5715]

Just now, Julie MacCoy said:

The spelling was changed when she was in the fourth grade?  Why didn't she tell her teacher or the principal that her name wasn't being spelled correctly?  And if they didn't believe her, why didn't she tell her parents so that they could straighten things out?  

That seems to be some confusion for me.  Your name is what is on your birth certificate.  There is a world of difference between not having any birth certificate and having a birth certificate with a different way of spelling your name.  So you either correct your newer documents to match your birth certificate or you go to court to change your name  then update your identification keeping the chain of documentation. 

[Sea Hag]

3 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/citizenship-evidence.html

Nothing has changed since I went through this. The requirements are the same as I remember it.

 

This part:

 

Early public or private documents

• Early public or private documents are documents that were created and/or issued early in the applicant’s life, preferably in the first five years.

• Public records should include the applicant’s full name, date of birth, and place of birth. Examples include:
  • Baptism certificate
  • Hospital birth certificate (often shows baby’s footprints)
  • U.S. Census record
  • Early school records
  • Family Bible record
  • Doctor's records of post-natal care
  • Form DS-10, Birth Affidavit (this form is for applicants whose birth in the United States was recorded more than one year late or who have a Letter of No Record.)

 

Covers the census record that I submitted. It's an early public document, and the one I submitted was within a couple of years of my birth. I also sent the notarized statements from my Dad and my brother, but I'm frankly not sure that those would have worked without the census record. Sent them anyway, since I'd gotten them before I tracked down the census record.

 

[GeezerCouple]

The above reminds me... among the documents we needed were an affidavit from the physician (pediatrician in our cases), and not just the teachers, but the school, showing "enrollment name".  But yes, the teachers, too, among those more casually who "knew them as....".

 

Things like this happen.

It just takes some time and effort to find out precisely what documents are needed, from whom, and in this day and age, there may well be more needed than in the past.

 

It doesn't mean the person can never get a passport.

 

GC

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, CoyoteDreemurr said:

All 3 of us were born in the US, to clarify that. I just find it ridiculous that she can't get a birth certificate without getting a legal name change. She was born with one spelling, but everything uses another spelling ever since she was in 4th grade. It's still the same name, just spelled different. 

 

Well as ridiculous as it may seem to you, the original name spelling is the legal name - the other spelling used since 4th grade is basically and alias. Sorry that is frustrating you, but it is what it is.

 

 So as others have said, either go through the process of a legal name change or change everything else to revert back to the current legal, original, name. 

 

But whatever has to be - or you choose to be - done, do it quickly as without a solution done in time she will not be able to board. And no amount of explaining or negotiating with the cruise line now or at boarding will change that.

[Shmoo here]

1 hour ago, CoyoteDreemurr said:

All 3 of us were born in the US, to clarify that. I just find it ridiculous that she can't get a birth certificate without getting a legal name change. She was born with one spelling, but everything uses another spelling ever since she was in 4th grade. It's still the same name, just spelled different. 

If she used the "newer", incorrect name to apply for her birth certificate, why can't she just re-apply, using the "old" correct name?

 

Failing that, can't you, as her child, get a copy of her birth certificate?  

 

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Shmoo here

[Julie MacCoy]

I guess I misunderstood what the OP meant by saying that "everyone uses another spelling ever since she was in  4th grade."  I thought that meant that everyone at school used a different spelling name for her for some reason, and I wondered why it had never been corrected.  But now I see that "everyone" must refer to all of her relatives, not to the people at her school, who all decided "Let's change how we spell our name without going through the proper channels and doing it legally."  But doesn't she remember how her name was spelled before it was changed?  Does she have a living relative, such as a parent or sibling or cousin, who remembers the original spelling?

[brillohead]

58 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

Failing that, can't you, as her child, get a copy of her birth certificate?  

Only a parent, legal guardian, or the person involved can get a birth certificate for someone.

 

[Shmoo here]

1 minute ago, brillohead said:

Only a parent, legal guardian, or the person involved can get a birth certificate for someone.

 

Well, that's different from here.  In our county , besides the individual/parent/legal guardian, a spouse, child or grandchild can request a birth certificate of an individual.

 

My mother did genealogy work for years, and I recall that she was able to get birth certificates for people she wasn't directly related to.  

 

I guess it varies from location to location.

[brillohead]

3 minutes ago, Julie MacCoy said:

I guess I misunderstood what the OP meant by saying that "everyone uses another spelling ever since she was in  4th grade."  I thought that meant that everyone at school used a different spelling name for her for some reason, and I wondered why it had never been corrected.  But now I see that "everyone" must refer to all of her relatives, not to the people at her school, who all decided "Let's change how we spell our name without going through the proper channels and doing it legally."  But doesn't she remember how her name was spelled before it was changed?  Does she have a living relative, such as a parent or sibling or cousin, who remembers the original spelling?

If I'm understanding correctly (the way the original post and subsequent replies have been worded is very confusing), it's not that they "can't find" the original birth certificate - it's that they DON'T WANT TO USE THE SPELLING on the original birth certificate.  

For example, birth certificate says "Margaret Smith" and by the 4th grade everyone was calling her "Peggy Smith" and her original driver license said "Peggy Smith" and then her marriage license said "Peggy Smith married John Jones" and so her next driver license said "Peggy Jones" and every document since has said "Peggy Jones".  

When applying for a passport, the birth certificate for Margaret Smith didn't match the documents for Peggy Jones.  

The OP wants to get a birth certificate for Peggy Smith (instead of Margaret) so she can get a passport for Peggy Jones.  

[brillohead]

2 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

Well, that's different from here.  In our county , besides the individual/parent/legal guardian, a spouse, child or grandchild can request a birth certificate of an individual.

 

My mother did genealogy work for years, and I recall that she was able to get birth certificates for people she wasn't directly related to.  

 

I guess it varies from location to location.

For DECEASED individuals, yes, anyone can get a copy.  

But for people who are alive, it's an identity theft prevention guideline.  At least that's the rule here.  

But as for the OP, it's not an issue of getting the BC, it's an issue of getting the BC with the name spelled the way they want it spelled.

 

[GeezerCouple]

1 minute ago, brillohead said:

If I'm understanding correctly (the way the original post and subsequent replies have been worded is very confusing), it's not that they "can't find" the original birth certificate - it's that they DON'T WANT TO USE THE SPELLING on the original birth certificate.  

For example, birth certificate says "Margaret Smith" and by the 4th grade everyone was calling her "Peggy Smith" and her original driver license said "Peggy Smith" and then her marriage license said "Peggy Smith married John Jones" and so her next driver license said "Peggy Jones" and every document since has said "Peggy Jones".  

When applying for a passport, the birth certificate for Margaret Smith didn't match the documents for Peggy Jones.  

The OP wants to get a birth certificate for Peggy Smith (instead of Margaret) so she can get a passport for Peggy Jones.  

 

So there IS a birth certificate?

(This is getting confusing.)

 

If it is as described in the part I quoted here, then EITHER an alias is being used, and as I posted before, these are not totally unknown.  There are ways to handle it, with a "KA" or an "AKA" ("Known As" or "Also Known As").

Or..... there is a formal, legal name change needed.

 

But this is headed "NO birth certificate"....??

 

GC

[Shmoo here]

2 minutes ago, brillohead said:

For DECEASED individuals, yes, anyone can get a copy.  

But for people who are alive, it's an identity theft prevention guideline.  At least that's the rule here.  

But as for the OP, it's not an issue of getting the BC, it's an issue of getting the BC with the name spelled the way they want it spelled.

 

Where I live you must be an "authorized person" to get a copy of a birth certificate.  And "authorized person" is:

• The registrant, a parent or legal guardian of the registrant.
• A party entitled to receive the record by court order, or an attorney or a licensed adoption agency seeking the birth record to comply with the requirements of Section 3140 or 7603 of the Family Code.
• A member of a law enforcement agency or a representative of another governmental agency, as provided by law, who is conducting official business.
• A child, grandparent, grandchild, sibling, spouse, or domestic partner of the registrant.
• An attorney representing the registrant or the registrant's estate, or any person or agency empowered by statute or appointed by a court to act on behalf of the registrant or the registrant's estate.
• Any funeral director ordering certified copies of a death certificate on behalf of any individual specified in paragraphs (1) to (5), inclusive, of subdivision (a) of Section 7100 of the Health and Safety Code.

[Shmoo here]

6 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

So there IS a birth certificate?

(This is getting confusing.)

OP posted:

 

All of my mom's stuff except for the old birth certificate had her new spelling on it.

 

So, apparently, there is a birth certificate.  But I'm thinking that she asked for her birth certificate using the name she's gone by since 4th grade and it's spelled differently than what's on the actual birth certificate.  So they wouldn't give it to her.

 

 

[Essiesmom]

My mother never had a copy of her birth certificate until she was 49 and taking a Girl Scout troop to Mexico.  Back then you needed it to apply for a visitors card.  When it came, my mother discovered that whereas her parents had named her Olive Louise, both family names...apparently the doctor who had delivered her at home had misremembered and registered her as Harriet Louise.  She was able to get it corrected with an affidavit from her mother, who was still living.  E M