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Help! No passport, no birth certificate!


CoyoteDreemurr
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4 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

So there IS a birth certificate?

(This is getting confusing.)

 

If it is as described in the part I quoted here, then EITHER an alias is being used, and as I posted before, these are not totally unknown.  There are ways to handle it, with a "KA" or an "AKA" ("Known As" or "Also Known As").

Or..... there is a formal, legal name change needed.

 

But this is headed "NO birth certificate"....??

 

GC


Like I said, the words the OP is using and the way the story is unfolding are very confusing, but if you look at these, that's where I'm coming to the conclusion that there IS an old / original spelling birth certificate, they just don't want to use it:
 

On 2/11/2019 at 5:26 PM, CoyoteDreemurr said:

Thank you so much, everybody! This should help us a lot! We had a friend get a hold of our congressman, but we haven't heard anything back yet. I'll start looking for an immigration lawyer. If all else fails, maybe we could try and get an Enhanced Driver's License or Nexus Card? Those are allowed for this cruise. All of my mom's stuff except for the old birth certificate had her new spelling on it. They're making her get a legal change, which could take months, to get a proper new birth certificate. As a last resort, my dad said he'd contact Princess Cruises directly. We may have a slight chance with that, as they have cruised with them twice before. 

 

2 hours ago, CoyoteDreemurr said:

All 3 of us were born in the US, to clarify that. I just find it ridiculous that she can't get a birth certificate without getting a legal name change. She was born with one spelling, but everything uses another spelling ever since she was in 4th grade. It's still the same name, just spelled different. 


The EASIEST way for the OP to get around all of this is to take the original birth certificate, the marriage license, and the current driver license (or ID card if Mom doesn't drive) on the cruise.  Unless the two names are completely and utterly different (say, from Margaret Helen Smith to Francine Bertha Jones), the cruise line and CBP agents are unlikely to blink an eye, especially since the date of birth will still match up.  

Then, after they get back, they can take the necessary legal steps to change the name to what they want it to be.  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, brillohead said:

 


Like I said, the words the OP is using and the way the story is unfolding are very confusing, but if you look at these, that's where I'm coming to the conclusion that there IS an old / original spelling birth certificate, they just don't want to use it:
 

 


The EASIEST way for the OP to get around all of this is to take the original birth certificate, the marriage license, and the current driver license (or ID card if Mom doesn't drive) on the cruise.  Unless the two names are completely and utterly different (say, from Margaret Helen Smith to Francine Bertha Jones), the cruise line and CBP agents are unlikely to blink an eye, especially since the date of birth will still match up.  

Then, after they get back, they can take the necessary legal steps to change the name to what they want it to be.  

 

 

That sounds like the best plan.  But OP seemed to say in first post that they wouldn't give the birth certificate to her mom because the name didn't match.

 

So, the question remains, does she actually have her birth certificate in hand?  Or is the situation is that there IS  a birth certificate, but she can't get it due to asking for the wrong name?

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2 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

OP posted:

 

All of my mom's stuff except for the old birth certificate had her new spelling on it.

 

So, apparently, there is a birth certificate.  But I'm thinking that she asked for her birth certificate using the name she's gone by since 4th grade and it's spelled differently than what's on the actual birth certificate.  So they wouldn't give it to her.

 

 

 

I don't even think that it's that they're "missing" the original birth certificate.  I think they just want a passport with the "new spelling" on it and are unwilling to do the work to make that happen.  

Even if the old original birth certificate were missing now, it would be a very simple thing to get the original birth certificate copy from the county clerk or state health department (whoever handles such things in that state).  It just sounds like, from what little we've been told piece by piece here, that they don't WANT the original BC with the unwanted original name on it -- they only want one with the desired name on it. 

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Just now, Shmoo here said:

That sounds like the best plan.  But OP seemed to say in first post that they wouldn't give the birth certificate to her mom because the name didn't match.

 

So, the question remains, does she actually have her birth certificate in hand?  Or is the situation is that there IS  a birth certificate, but she can't get it due to asking for the wrong name?


The more I read it, the more it sounds like they wouldn't issue her one "the way she wants it" without doing a legal name change.  They would only give her the old name type of BC....

 

 

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6 hours ago, brillohead said:


The more I read it, the more it sounds like they wouldn't issue her one "the way she wants it" without doing a legal name change.  They would only give her the old name type of BC....

 

 

And of course they aren't going to change an official document just because someone wants it, they can only change it by court order.

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Does she have a physical copy of the birth certificate with the different spelling on hand (gonna day different because if that’s the name she was born under, it’s her legal name; regardless of how she likes it spelled). If so, could she just get a passport in that name for the sake of going on the cruise? She can deal with name changes and getting it changed to what she wants later when there’s not a time deadline. You would have to check with the cruise line, but it would probably be easier to change the name on the booking to match the passport name than deal with changing her name.

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8 hours ago, brillohead said:

The EASIEST way for the OP to get around all of this is to take the original birth certificate, the marriage license, and the current driver license (or ID card if Mom doesn't drive) on the cruise.  Unless the two names are completely and utterly different (say, from Margaret Helen Smith to Francine Bertha Jones), the cruise line and CBP agents are unlikely to blink an eye, especially since the date of birth will still match up.  

Then, after they get back, they can take the necessary legal steps to change the name to what they want it to be.  

 

However, she may be denied bordering.

 

It depends on how closely they look and how sticky they want to be.

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25 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

Does she have a physical copy of the birth certificate with the different spelling on hand (gonna day different because if that’s the name she was born under, it’s her legal name; regardless of how she likes it spelled). If so, could she just get a passport in that name for the sake of going on the cruise? She can deal with name changes and getting it changed to what she wants later when there’s not a time deadline. You would have to check with the cruise line, but it would probably be easier to change the name on the booking to match the passport name than deal with changing her name.

 

This is what I would do.

 

Get a passport in the "real" name and change the cruise booking to that name.

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11 hours ago, brillohead said:

 

I don't even think that it's that they're "missing" the original birth certificate.  I think they just want a passport with the "new spelling" on it and are unwilling to do the work to make that happen.  

Even if the old original birth certificate were missing now, it would be a very simple thing to get the original birth certificate copy from the county clerk or state health department (whoever handles such things in that state).  It just sounds like, from what little we've been told piece by piece here, that they don't WANT the original BC with the unwanted original name on it -- they only want one with the desired name on it. 

Your post makes sense.  Get the original BC, pay a fee if necessary to get the booking name changed.  Call Mom whatever she has been called her whole life.  I hope I haven't missed something.  

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so  do we know if it is her first name or surname that does not match?

If first name  I am sure the check in people probably would not notice  1 letter difference  unless a totally different name of course  EG Margaret  to Peggy

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15 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

The name on the birth certificate is the legal name.  My biodad put the name he wanted on my birth certificate.  If I want it changed, I need to go to court and have it changed.  

  this.  

 

for my entire childhood and half my adult life I thought my name was Dawnmarie .   when I had to get my passport when moving to Japan back in 2000, I found out  differently.  it's Dawn Marie ( still no middle name)  Half of my documents are in the original 2 word spelling with the space, the other half  have it listed as  one word.   about every third cruise   they have to override something on the system   because of the space.  so now I just ask whoever wants my John Hancock how they prefer I sign .  

Edited by spookwife
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14 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

Well, that's different from here.  In our county , besides the individual/parent/legal guardian, a spouse, child or grandchild can request a birth certificate of an individual.

 

My mother did genealogy work for years, and I recall that she was able to get birth certificates for people she wasn't directly related to.  

 

I guess it varies from location to location.

In California, anyone can get an "certified informational copy" of a birth certificate, but to get a "certified authorized copy" one must have one of a list of relationships to the person. Parent, grandparent, spouse, child and grandchild are on that list as are various kinds of attorney, court or law enforcement roles. 

 

An informational copy is, I expect, enough for genealogy work. 

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2 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

For example, Oprah Winfrey's first name was spelled "Orpah" on her birth certificate after the biblical figure in the Book of Ruth, but people mispronounced it regularly and "Oprah" stuck but unless she has had it legally changed her legal first name is Orpah.  

I have read the opposite: her mom wanted to name her Orpah, but it was misspelled on the birth certificate as Oprah, so that's what it stayed as.

 

The same happened to my great grandma - the clerk misspelled it... very badly, indeed.

Edited by Itchy&Scratchy
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I have read the opposite: her mom wanted to name her Orpah, but it was misspelled on the birth certificate as Oprah, so that's what it stayed as.

I've read that, too.  I even read that Oprah said that she was the only person in the world named Oprah, because her name was a misspelling.  

 

Yes, I know that wikipedia says that Elaine's version is the truth.


Like I said, the words the OP is using and the way the story is unfolding are very confusing,

I'll say it is.  The OP should have been straightforward at the beginning and said, "My mother was born in the USA.  When she was in the fourth grade, her family decided to change the spelling of their last name, but they did so informally, without getting it changed legally.  How should she go about getting a certified copy of her birth certificate?"  Instead, some people thought that maybe her name had been spelled incorrectly when her birth was registered, and some people thought that she needed an immigration lawyer.  And the question of how the mother was able to go on two Princess cruises without (apparently) any proof of citizenship of any country was never answered.

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11 hours ago, sanger727 said:

Does she have a physical copy of the birth certificate with the different spelling on hand (gonna day different because if that’s the name she was born under, it’s her legal name; regardless of how she likes it spelled). If so, could she just get a passport in that name for the sake of going on the cruise? She can deal with name changes and getting it changed to what she wants later when there’s not a time deadline. You would have to check with the cruise line, but it would probably be easier to change the name on the booking to match the passport name than deal with changing her name.

 

I was thinking the same thing.  It seems very straight-forward.  

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I personally went through this and empathize with the OP.

 

Basically there is a process in place to get your Birth Certifiate corrected.  It’s long and painful but is an available option to fix this for the long term.

 

i went through this for a few years and finally gave up..  My advice

1) doctor the birth certificate to match what it should read

2) ensure your booking details match the BC, even if it’s not correct

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On 2/11/2019 at 1:22 AM, CoyoteDreemurr said:

So, my parents and I have a Caribbean cruise booked for March 24-31 on the Regal Princess. But, my mom was denied a passport because she didn't have a birth certificate. She was also denied a birth certificate because of a different spelling of her name. How ridiculous. My dad and I both have our passports. But, what will we do about my mom? How can she get on the cruise if she can't get either document? Please help me!

If possible have your Mother try to get her birth certificate with the way it is spelled on her certificate.

If she has a Apostle marriage certificate with the spelling of her birth certificate she should be able to provide both of those documents to apply for her passport as long as she had the name changed when your parent got married.

You will then have to modify her name on the quest registration of the cruise to match that name.

I had a similar situation with my Wife when she had applied for her passport years ago.

She was from a different country and after 911 the rule on spelling seemed to be a bigger issue when re applying for her native country passport, since then my Wife applied and became a Naturalized citizen.

This was not a short process as we were dealing with the country were she was born and we had to fill many different forms to get this all corrected.

Using a Lawyer may help, but I researched what I needed to do and did it all by myself.

Correcting my Wife's documentation did not take very long as I paid to expedite the process, waiting for the passport from Her country took some time though. Once the paper work was all in order it took less time for her to become a citizen and get an American passport then it did getting the passport from her country.

A Lawyer may get the issue resolved quicker then what I did, but the time it took me from start to finish was a little over 90 days to get her citizenship and her countries passport arrived about 2 months later.

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6 hours ago, Luckiestmanonearth said:

I personally went through this and empathize with the OP.

 

Basically there is a process in place to get your Birth Certifiate corrected.  It’s long and painful but is an available option to fix this for the long term.

 

i went through this for a few years and finally gave up..  My advice

1) doctor the birth certificate to match what it should read

2) ensure your booking details match the BC, even if it’s not correct

Except the birth certificate isn't "wrong"  if if doesn't say what you think it should.  Ask the millions of men who were named as the Father on a birth certificate when they weren't.  Whomever gives the name for the document  has created that person's legal name, like it or not.  Again, thousands if not millions of people have found out that the person who filled out the application put in what they wanted for the baby's name and that name is the baby's legal name.  All legal names changes (in the US) requires a court order short of a marriage.  Doctoring a birth certificate is a sure fire way of being denied boarding until an original or certified  copy  is produced.  

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23 hours ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

I have read the opposite: her mom wanted to name her Orpah, but it was misspelled on the birth certificate as Oprah, so that's what it stayed as.

 

The same happened to my great grandma - the clerk misspelled it... very badly, indeed.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Winfrey's first name was spelled "Orpah" on her birth certificate after the biblical figure in the Book of Ruth, but people mispronounced it regularly and "Oprah" stuck.

 

From the citation for the above:

 

 Winfrey has said in interviews that "my name had been chosen from the Bible. My Aunt Ida had chosen the name, but nobody really knew how to spell it, so it went down as "Orpah" on my birth certificate, but people didn't know how to pronounce it, so they put the "P" before the "R" in every place else other than the birth certificate. On the birth certificate it is Orpah, but then it got translated to Oprah, so here we are." "Oprah Winfrey Interview". Academy of Achievement. January 21, 1991. Archived from the original on January 19, 2016. Retrieved August 25, 2008.
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8 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

short of a marriage.  

 

And what you can do upon marriage may be limited.

 

In MD, at least a number of years ago, the woman could legally drop their middle name, substitute their maiden name for their middle name, or keep both.

 

My Ex never used her first name.  When we got married, she wanted to drop her first name, use her middle name, and keep her maiden name as her new middle name.   Nope, would take a court order.  So she kept all of them.

 

Made it fun to do taxes electronically.

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17 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

 Doctoring a birth certificate is a sure fire way of being denied boarding until an original or certified  copy  is produced.  

If the "doctoring" isn't evident to the clerk then it's likely to pass their muster. However when CBP runs the info through their databases it is likely to come up as "no match", at which point the passenger will probably be flagged and sent to secondary inspection upon disembarking. I would not want to sit in front of a government official and admit that I "doctored" an official document.

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