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Help! No passport, no birth certificate!


CoyoteDreemurr
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11 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

OP hasn't been around for a couple of days.  I'm not sure we're ever going to get the straight story from him/her (regarding why it's the "wrong" birth certificate, why they wouldn't give her a birth certificate, what was wrong about the name, what the story was they told the federal officials).

 

Would be nice to be updated on what happens.

 

 

It would be.

 

For the first time, I am cruising with a friend of my sons for his upcoming birthday cruise. I required a copy of his ID and assurance he has a birth certificate copy before we get to final payment. This story reminded me of why that is so important.

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7 hours ago, ontheweb said:

No, I've seen local places where they have a sign that they card anyone who looks under 40. I don't remember the last time I was carded. (I'm well over 21, and in fact well over 40.)

 

I am well over 40, and have been carded.  I like to think that I look a lot younger than I am. 😄

 

But some places do card EVERYONE.  Just easier than arguing with people

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1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

I am well over 40, and have been carded.  I like to think that I look a lot younger than I am. 😄

 

But some places do card EVERYONE.  Just easier than arguing with people

Speaking of carding everyone, I remember being with a friend who I guess looked younger than she was because she was short way back when NY's age limit was still 18, not 21. She got carded and instead of pulling out her license took out the pictures of her children. "This is Ronnie, he is 13. This is Veronica, she is 12. This is Stasia, she is 11. This is Joshua, he is 3. And thanks for asking." They did not require her license at that point. LOL 

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15 hours ago, SRF said:

 

I am well over 40, and have been carded.  I like to think that I look a lot younger than I am. 😄

 

But some places do card EVERYONE.  Just easier than arguing with people

I was carded at Fenway Park last summer and at the last concert we attended, it was venue policy in both cases to card everyone. I'm almost the equivalent of 3 21 year olds. 

Edited by sparks1093
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On 2/19/2019 at 9:38 PM, Julie MacCoy said:

 

   

 

It's because sanger727 posted the following:

 

 

 

 

I attempted to show that "old" proof of age was not always accepted, and ontheweb indicated that proof of age that one was a senior citizen was not sufficient to prove that he/she was at least 21 years old.  Therefore, I am not sure that sanger727's suggestion to dig up "old" proof of citizenship would work.  Even sanger727 isn't sure "if this would carry any weight."

 

 

 

To be clear; I never meant to imply that an expired ID could be used for identification in any official setting. Presumably she has a valid photo ID and lacking proof of citizenship. If all that was needed to get a notary was photo ID I don’t see any reason for that to work as proof of citizenship. It appears she has a face to face meeting with a passport official and is grasping at straws for anything that would prove citizenship. I’ve read about people without birth certificates being able to get documentation based on notarized statements of people who could verify they were born in the US. That’s all my post was meant for. Potentially a notarized  statement from someone who had verified her citizenship for employment or had a copy of her birth certificate in an old personnel file could help.

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:44 PM, ontheweb said:

Speaking of carding everyone, I remember being with a friend who I guess looked younger than she was because she was short way back when NY's age limit was still 18, not 21. She got carded and instead of pulling out her license took out the pictures of her children. "This is Ronnie, he is 13. This is Veronica, she is 12. This is Stasia, she is 11. This is Joshua, he is 3. And thanks for asking." They did not require her license at that point. LOL 

 

I would have told her, "wow, you started very young, now for some proof of age." 😄

 

 

Edited by SRF
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Potentially a notarized  statement from someone who had verified her citizenship for employment or had a copy of her birth certificate in an old personnel file could help.

If someone had a copy of her birth certificate in an old file, then she would know the exact name for which she should apply for a new certified copy of her birth certificate.

 

I would have told her, "wow, you started very young, now for some proof of age." 😄

I wondered about that, too.  It makes for a funny story, but if it is true, then whoever served her liquor was taking a huge chance, because they might have been pictures of her nieces and nephews.  Just like I don't think that a notary public license is proof of USA citizenship, I don't think that carrying around pictures of children is proof of being at least 18.

 

But back then, people weren't so careful about enforcing the rules.  I turned 18 in New Jersey, where the drinking age was 21, but the drinking age in New York was 18.  It was customary for kids to go to New York on their 18th birthday and drink.  That's what I did, and I was bitterly disappointed when I wasn't carded.  And I looked young for my age.   When I was 19, I dated a guy who was a little older than me, and when we went to bars, I was always served.  They couldn't have cared less about my age.  I never had phony proof.  If I had ever been asked for proof, I would said that I didn't have it, and if they would have said that they couldn't serve me, I would have said that I understood.  But nobody ever asked me, because nobody cared.  All they wanted to do was serve me liquor, so that they could get a bigger tip.

 

So maybe that story about the photos of the children is true.

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9 hours ago, Julie MacCoy said:

 

 

If someone had a copy of her birth certificate in an old file, then she would know the exact name for which she should apply for a new certified copy of her birth certificate.

 

Well, the OP has gone MIA so at this point it’s a guessing game. But A. It’s possible a copy exists and she hasn’t thought to ask someone who might have it and B. I’m not under the impression that she doesn’t know the correct name; what I got from the prior posts is they will only release a copy to the person the BC belongs to and since her drivers license is in a different name she is unable to get it.

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10 hours ago, Julie MacCoy said:

 

 

If someone had a copy of her birth certificate in an old file, then she would know the exact name for which she should apply for a new certified copy of her birth certificate.

 

 

I wondered about that, too.  It makes for a funny story, but if it is true, then whoever served her liquor was taking a huge chance, because they might have been pictures of her nieces and nephews.  Just like I don't think that a notary public license is proof of USA citizenship, I don't think that carrying around pictures of children is proof of being at least 18.

 

But back then, people weren't so careful about enforcing the rules.  I turned 18 in New Jersey, where the drinking age was 21, but the drinking age in New York was 18.  It was customary for kids to go to New York on their 18th birthday and drink.  That's what I did, and I was bitterly disappointed when I wasn't carded.  And I looked young for my age.   When I was 19, I dated a guy who was a little older than me, and when we went to bars, I was always served.  They couldn't have cared less about my age.  I never had phony proof.  If I had ever been asked for proof, I would said that I didn't have it, and if they would have said that they couldn't serve me, I would have said that I understood.  But nobody ever asked me, because nobody cared.  All they wanted to do was serve me liquor, so that they could get a bigger tip.

 

So maybe that story about the photos of the children is true.

It is true. I know because I was there. BTW, it was not at a bar, but rather a liquor store.

Edited by ontheweb
changed goceery store to liquor store as my memory improved
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On 2/12/2019 at 11:11 PM, brillohead said:


Only a parent, legal guardian, or the person involved can get a birth certificate for someone.

 

I recently ordered a birth certificate on line, and received it.  I live in a different state from which the birth certificate originated.   Vital records had no idea who I was placing the order.  I did not have to prove my identy.

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On 2/22/2019 at 9:01 AM, breezy_carol said:

OP, how did your mother's appointment go Tuesday?

 

Not good. She got no help from them at all. She went to the courthouse she used to work at, too. Nothing. Then, she called Princess. She almost got a reschedule for July 20th. But, it was "too close to the sail date." So, she tried to cancel, which they charge $1700 at this point. She refused to give them any more money then we already have. She told my dad to "just take me," so all the money won't go down the toilet. What a shame. This was supposed to be for their 25th anniversary. If we can't do anything else for her, my dad and I basically have no choice but to go ourselves. It won't be as fun without her, though. 

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Just now, CoyoteDreemurr said:

Not good. She got no help from them at all. She went to the courthouse she used to work at, too. Nothing. Then, she called Princess. She almost got a reschedule for July 20th. But, it was "too close to the sail date." So, she tried to cancel, which they charge $1700 at this point. She refused to give them any more money then we already have. She told my dad to "just take me," so all the money won't go down the toilet. What a shame. This was supposed to be for their 25th anniversary. If we can't do anything else for her, my dad and I basically have no choice but to go ourselves. It won't be as fun without her, though. 

 

That is  too bad

Maybe she can now  get her name  legally changed  from what is on her original BC  to the name she uses (before marriage)

Once  that happens she can apply for  a passport  for future travel

 

Go with your Dad & enjoy the cruise

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21 minutes ago, CoyoteDreemurr said:

It was the exact same cruise, but at a later date. Same ship, same ports, same everything. 

If it's a different date, it's a different cruise.

 

I'm not clear on how a July 20 cruise is "too close" to sail date.  That's 5 months from now.  Too close for what?  Are you talking about it's too close to the already booked cruise to change the date?

Edited by Shmoo here
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On 2/22/2019 at 7:05 PM, sleepless said:

I recently ordered a birth certificate on line, and received it.  I live in a different state from which the birth certificate originated.   Vital records had no idea who I was placing the order.  I did not have to prove my identy.

 

Hmm, I had to replace mine, and for my birth state, I had to go through Vital Check.

 

They did require proof of identity, but they did it through questions about my past, places I had lived, schools I had gone to.  And amazing amount of detail of my life. 😄

 

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On 2/23/2019 at 5:54 PM, Shmoo here said:

If it's a different date, it's a different cruise.

 

I'm not clear on how a July 20 cruise is "too close" to sail date.  That's 5 months from now.  Too close for what?  Are you talking about it's too close to the already booked cruise to change the date?

I think he meant his current cruise is too close to the sail date. So too far into the cancellation period to get much of any credit towards a re-booking.

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On 2/23/2019 at 2:51 PM, CoyoteDreemurr said:

Not good. She got no help from them at all. She went to the courthouse she used to work at, too. Nothing. Then, she called Princess. She almost got a reschedule for July 20th. But, it was "too close to the sail date." So, she tried to cancel, which they charge $1700 at this point. She refused to give them any more money then we already have. She told my dad to "just take me," so all the money won't go down the toilet. What a shame. This was supposed to be for their 25th anniversary. If we can't do anything else for her, my dad and I basically have no choice but to go ourselves. It won't be as fun without her, though. 


Honestly, I don't think you'll have a problem showing up with her original birth certificate, her marriage license, and her driver license. 

Just because she couldn't get a passport with those documents without jumping through extra hoops does not mean she can't get on the ship with those documents.  

Rather than have her not take the cruise at all, I would at least TRY to board with the BC, marriage license, and DL.  

If you don't try, you'll never know. And if you don't try, you have nothing to complain about regarding her not going on the cruise.  

As Wayne Gretzky said, "You miss 100% of the shots you never take."

 

 

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1 hour ago, brillohead said:


Honestly, I don't think you'll have a problem showing up with her original birth certificate, her marriage license, and her driver license. 

Just because she couldn't get a passport with those documents without jumping through extra hoops does not mean she can't get on the ship with those documents.  

Rather than have her not take the cruise at all, I would at least TRY to board with the BC, marriage license, and DL.  

If you don't try, you'll never know. And if you don't try, you have nothing to complain about regarding her not going on the cruise.  

As Wayne Gretzky said, "You miss 100% of the shots you never take."

 

 

 

This thread is six pages long.  Have you actually read it?????  SHE LOST THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE.  She can't get another one because for many, many years the spelling of one of her names was changed and she has no ID with the original spelling.  EM

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5 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

 

This thread is six pages long.  Have you actually read it?????  SHE LOST THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE.  She can't get another one because for many, many years the spelling of one of her names was changed and she has no ID with the original spelling.  EM

 

I've read the whole thing and replied several times from the beginning.  Have YOU read the whole thing????

I don't think that the problem is because she lost the BC and can't get another one -- the problem is that she wants them to issue a BC that says "Peggy" when her given name is "Margaret".  

NOWHERE does it say that they can't get any birth certificate at all ... it just says that they can't get one with the spelling they want on it b/c the family changed what they call the kid in the fourth grade.  Check for yourself:
 

On 2/12/2019 at 8:30 PM, CoyoteDreemurr said:

All 3 of us were born in the US, to clarify that. I just find it ridiculous that she can't get a birth certificate without getting a legal name change. She was born with one spelling, but everything uses another spelling ever since she was in 4th grade. It's still the same name, just spelled different. 


If they would just get the BC with "Margaret" on it and take the marriage license with "Peggy" and the DL with "Peggy", nobody is going to bat an eye.  It's a closed-loop Caribbean cruise.  

It's not that there is no BC at all.... there just isn't a BC with the name spelled the way they want it spelled.  

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What's funny is that, for some reason, I thought that it was the family's last name that was changed, not the OP's mother's first name.  And if her first name is Margaret, and that's what was on her birth certificate, I'm wondering how she got a driver's license that says Peggy.  Did Motor Vehicles just take her word for it that her name was Peggy and that her birth date was what she said it was?  Do we even know that she has a driver's license?

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13 minutes ago, Julie MacCoy said:

What's funny is that, for some reason, I thought that it was the family's last name that was changed, not the OP's mother's first name.  And if her first name is Margaret, and that's what was on her birth certificate, I'm wondering how she got a driver's license that says Peggy.  Did Motor Vehicles just take her word for it that her name was Peggy and that her birth date was what she said it was?  Do we even know that she has a driver's license?

I think the "Margaret/Peggy" thing was just a couple of names that someone used to explain what may have happened.  I don't recall that the OP ever said what the actual situation was with the names.  Only that there was a different spelling that happened when the mom was in 4th grade.

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2 hours ago, Julie MacCoy said:

What's funny is that, for some reason, I thought that it was the family's last name that was changed, not the OP's mother's first name.  And if her first name is Margaret, and that's what was on her birth certificate, I'm wondering how she got a driver's license that says Peggy.  Did Motor Vehicles just take her word for it that her name was Peggy and that her birth date was what she said it was?  Do we even know that she has a driver's license?


Back in the day, agencies weren't as nit-picky about documents as they are these days.  

It wasn't at all unusual for someone named Robert on their birth certificate to be able to get Bob on their driver license.  Jonathon could be John, Marjorie could be Marge, etc. So it's entirely possible for someone who was named Margaret but known as Peggy to have a marriage license in the name of Peggy, as well as a driver license. 

The OP hasn't told us what ANY of the actual names are, so Margaret / Peggy was just an example of what I used, given that the family started calling the OP's mom by the "new spelling of the same name" in the fourth grade.  

The agency that issued the driver license had the original "other spelling" birth certificate and "new spelling" marriage license, and they issued the "new spelling" driver license based on that.  

The problem is NOT that there is no birth certificate available at all.... the problem is that the name on the birth certificate is spelled differently than the name on the marriage and driver licenses.  When the OP is saying that her mother "can't get a birth certificate" that's not actually true -- she can get an old spelling birth certificate, but not a new spelling birth certificate because she never legally changed her name.

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