Tipping

[Stmar]

Do you hate mandatory tipping as much as me? I am a good tipper but I don't like the cruise line dictating how much and to whom I tip. The corporate line about the unseen personnel does not sound right, what happened to those unseen before the mandatory policy? I think that corporate is using this policy so they don't have to pay the unseen a competitive wage. Service has definitely gone downhill since the implementation of this policy.

[sparks1093]

It's called a tipping pool and it was in place before the current practices. And it's not mandatory, it's simply added to your account for your convenience and the tip amount is purely a suggestion. If you would rather go through the trouble to re-invent the wheel go to guest services and remove the tips and then tip your waitstaff and steward in person. FWIW DW and I had to eat breakfast and dinner out once and the tips for those two meals came to $9.50 per person, and we weren't eating at high end establishments. For three meals and twice a day cabin service the tips are more than reasonable. (And also FWIW, a lot of land based establishments use the tipping pool model. Even if they don't waitstaff will tip out those who assist them, such as the bussers.)

[thinfool]

Please explain how tips are "dictated".

[cb at sea]

They are making it easy for you.  The folks you should be tipping ARE tipped, without any thought or effort on your part.  Even in land-based restaurants, the tip to your server is split with the host/hostess, bus person, and bar staff (if applicable).

[Stmar]

2 hours ago, thinfool said:

Please explain how tips are "dictated".

The cruise line puts a dictated/set amount on your account. It looks like you guys are validating my point. They make it difficult to do anything but follow. Have you ever had to ho to "guest services" for anything? Talk about oxymoron. 

[LHT28]

I like the auto gratuity  system

then I do not have worry about finding the staff to tip on the last night  like in the old days

Of course those that did not want to tip at all would  hide on the last  night 😉

 

[sparks1093]

10 minutes ago, Stmar said:

The cruise line puts a dictated/set amount on your account. It looks like you guys are validating my point. They make it difficult to do anything but follow. Have you ever had to ho to "guest services" for anything? Talk about oxymoron. 

The crew deserves it, so why wouldn't everyone follow? (Unless of course service was less than stellar, but again adjustments can be made.) Yes, I've been to guest services numerous times for other reasons and they've been more than helpful.

[Stmar]

Again I am a good tipper, tipping is not the issue. I am a Libertarian, I want to control what I do and I don't trust corporate to do the right thing. Ask your wait staff or cabin stewart what he thinks of the current practice. Guest services is always crowded, understaffed and not where I want to spend my time.

[LHT28]

Just now, Stmar said:

Again I am a good tipper, tipping is not the issue. I am a Libertarian, I want to control what I do and I don't trust corporate to do the right thing. Ask your wait staff or cabin stewart what he thinks of the current practice. Guest services is always crowded, understaffed and not where I want to spend my time.

just go the 2nd  day  & remove the auto gratuity  if that is  what you want to do

do not wait until the last  day

[sparks1093]

52 minutes ago, Stmar said:

Again I am a good tipper, tipping is not the issue. I am a Libertarian, I want to control what I do and I don't trust corporate to do the right thing. Ask your wait staff or cabin stewart what he thinks of the current practice. Guest services is always crowded, understaffed and not where I want to spend my time.

Then how can you trust corporate to keep you safe on your cruise? Seriously, if they were stiffing the crew the crew would know about it since they know what we pay (and as I understand it this is all overseen by a Union of sorts that act as a watchdog for the whole thing). I could ask them what they think but it's irrelevant since it's what they agreed to (freely, mind you). 

[angie7911922]

You can change the tipping amounts. You don't have to tip what they ask you to. Depending on the cruise line, you can go to guest services, or change it on the card they leave in your room. We've changed it a few times without any hassle. 

[pacruise804]

On 2/17/2019 at 11:33 AM, Stmar said:

Again I am a good tipper, tipping is not the issue. I am a Libertarian, I want to control what I do and I don't trust corporate to do the right thing. Ask your wait staff or cabin stewart what he thinks of the current practice. Guest services is always crowded, understaffed and not where I want to spend my time.

 

Do you trust corporate to ensure that your ship is safe, will provide reasonable food, will get you to your destinations (within reason, most cruise contracts specify this isn't guaranteed) or provide a reasonable alternative, etc?  Do you trust that if you make payment of your cruise fare (and have proper documentation with you) that you will be granted boarding?  If tipping isn't the issue, then I don't understand why you don't trust in one area but do in others.

 

Is "the right thing" something different than the agreement between the employee and employer? What does "do the right thing" mean to you?  I'm not trying to be difficult, I want to make sure I understand your statement.

 

If as a good tipper you feel the auto gratuity isn't enough, you can always hand deliver more to those who provide excellent service above the basic expectations.

[Stmar]

I don't trust them as much as in the past. Cruising has changed since we first started 35 years ago. Ships have gotten grander, not as well maintained, but the passenger has been minimized, IMHO. If you are new to cruising then you will not understand what it was like. Will I cruise again? Probably because we like seeing different ports of call but my expectations have been tempered.

[pacruise804]

Thank you for your response.  I am newish to cruising (2012), and from what I remember hearing growing up it does sound like much of the experience has changed - even in the few years we have cruised we have started lowering expectations.  I have only sailed mainstream lines, but am concerned that even if we cruise premium or luxury I still might be "not wowed" with the service.

 

It does seem that ships carry many more passengers than they used to, which to me would be harder to give the excellent service I heard of in the past.  I also think as a culture our expectations might be higher than they used to be, so I don't know if I could experience a cruise from 35 years ago if it would impress me today or not.

 

Like you, I will continue to cruise because there are aspects we enjoy even if we have to tolerate some aspects that we don't.

[sparks1093]

20 hours ago, Stmar said:

I don't trust them as much as in the past. Cruising has changed since we first started 35 years ago. Ships have gotten grander, not as well maintained, but the passenger has been minimized, IMHO. If you are new to cruising then you will not understand what it was like. Will I cruise again? Probably because we like seeing different ports of call but my expectations have been tempered.

I'm sure that a lot of factors play into it. There are more ships and more staff is needed so they can't be as selective as they were in the past and that pertains to all positions on the ship, not just hotel services. When you are dealing with that many clients there is a tendency to aim for the lowest common denominator in order to attract as many potential clients as possible in order to fill the ships. The cruise lines keep ordering bigger ships and eventually something has to give (and that is a double edged sword also because eventually they won't have the passengers to fill those behemoths). 

[Stmar]

This actually turned into a good discussion. It is hard to imagine what it was like 35 years ago if you have not experienced it and memories tend to embellish or degrade over time. We, both wife and I and our traveling partners, tend to have the same feelings about how things have changed. Much larger ships therefore, like you said, more passengers and crew. Instead of luxury you get, in your words, the lowest common denominator or what will make the most money with the least expense for the company without completely pissing off the customer. The original topic was Tipping. 35 years ago our tip budget was $200, we handed out 50's and 20's and had a sense that the employees appreciated it. This last cruise we had under $200 charged to our account for mandatory tipping (to us it was mandatory no matter that you could take it off with some effort) and the employees did not seem as happy. It is like when government gets involved in a program the quality and accountability seem to suffer. Again JMHO.  

[sparks1093]

30 minutes ago, Stmar said:

This actually turned into a good discussion. It is hard to imagine what it was like 35 years ago if you have not experienced it and memories tend to embellish or degrade over time. We, both wife and I and our traveling partners, tend to have the same feelings about how things have changed. Much larger ships therefore, like you said, more passengers and crew. Instead of luxury you get, in your words, the lowest common denominator or what will make the most money with the least expense for the company without completely pissing off the customer. The original topic was Tipping. 35 years ago our tip budget was $200, we handed out 50's and 20's and had a sense that the employees appreciated it. This last cruise we had under $200 charged to our account for mandatory tipping (to us it was mandatory no matter that you could take it off with some effort) and the employees did not seem as happy. It is like when government gets involved in a program the quality and accountability seem to suffer. Again JMHO.  

As I understand it the switch was made from envelopes to having it added to the account because of the number of people who would "forget" the envelopes on the last night. I haven't met a crew member that wasn't happy so they must have been walking on air 35 years ago😉. We will leave the auto tips in place and if the staff has gone above and beyond we will show our appreciation two ways 1) with an additional tip and 2) with a note to their boss telling them how well the staff performed. (On our last cruise I would often see my waitstaff working in the buffet first thing in the morning, like 530 a.m., getting things set up and they never failed to acknowledge me with a smile.)

[LHT28]

Even 45 yrs ago  people would  forget to turn up for dinner in the dining room with envelopes   so now the crew have a better chance at getting the gratuities

Some  lines have resorted to calling it  a service charge  so it cannot be removed

[Stmar]

20 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Even 45 yrs ago  people would  forget to turn up for dinner in the dining room with envelopes   so now the crew have a better chance at getting the gratuities

Some  lines have resorted to calling it  a service charge  so it cannot be removed

So in your eyes it is "mandatory" therefore not the definition of a "tip or gratuity". The way I see it they should add it to the price of the cruise and not a seperate line item, no fuss no muss, instead of mislabeling it as a voluntary action of tipping.

[LHT28]

Just now, Stmar said:

So in your eyes it is "mandatory" therefore not the definition of a "tip or gratuity". The way I see it they should add it to the price of the cruise and not a seperate line item, no fuss no muss, instead of mislabeling it as a voluntary action of tipping.

I would  like  to see it added to the fare   but then  some will complain the cruise fare is too much 🙂

People can sail on lines  where it is part of the cruise fare 

shop around

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, Stmar said:

So in your eyes it is "mandatory" therefore not the definition of a "tip or gratuity". The way I see it they should add it to the price of the cruise and not a seperate line item, no fuss no muss, instead of mislabeling it as a voluntary action of tipping.

Then some of the crew gets the shaft since they don't pay taxes in their home country for tips but they do for wages. If this is going to change it won't be because the passengers demand it or because the cruise line wants to do it, it will change because the crews demand it and I frankly don't see that happening since most of them are quite happy with the status quo. I view this as really nothing different than going out to eat with a large party and having 18% added automatically to the check. 

[Stmar]

Don't see how you can make such a blanket statement about not taxing tips unless you know the tax laws of a lot countries. In the US people are taxed on their tips, the reason I tip in cash instead of adding it on my card. You are making my point about tipping in cash, less government oversight.

[sparks1093]

26 minutes ago, Stmar said:

Don't see how you can make such a blanket statement about not taxing tips unless you know the tax laws of a lot countries. In the US people are taxed on their tips, the reason I tip in cash instead of adding it on my card. You are making my point about tipping in cash, less government oversight.

I said "some" so it wasn't much of a blanket statement. Someone did post a link to the Philippine tax regulations that specifically excluded tips from their income, and many crew members hail from that country. Yes, US folks are taxed on their tips and they are taxed on what the expected tips are, even if their tips don't rise to that level. In any event we're not likely to see a change any time soon in the system since the majority of the crew likes it (as evidenced by the large number of folks that re-sign cruise line contracts year after year).

[kira5]

On a cruise last month, a waiter told us, in a longer conversation at a slow time, that staff do not receive the amount that guests pay for gratuities.     

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, kira5 said:

On a cruise last month, a waiter told us, in a longer conversation at a slow time, that staff do not receive the amount that guests pay for gratuities.     

I expect they are using a tip pool so this would be correct. So that one waiter doesn't receive the portion of the tip designated as being for waitstaff but they all do. No different than from eating in a land based establishment that pools tips, your server doesn't get all that you leave, either.