Walkie talkies?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, twodaywonder said:

Only if the film is metalized. Plastic has no effect at all. A60 is. ldubs thanks for that. I concur. Using inexpensive UHF FM is a far better than a cellphone ending up in the pool or dropped and stepped on by the kids. However, a cell phone is certainly more private. 

And nearly all thermal windows, like low e windows, and many tinted windows have at least one metallic layer in them.  I believe it is the encapsulation of the fire gel between the glass layers in  an A-60 window that hurts radio transmission, and most of the glass doors in cruise ship passageways are A-60 fire rated, as these are at the fire zone boundaries.

 

And, yes, UHF radios can work, but as ldubs said, it is iffy, and from one day to the next, communicating between the same two spots on the ship may or may not work.  Depends on many variables.

Edited May 10, 2019 by chengkp75

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

Try asking the sales clerk on the ship. They sell them on the ship.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

Try asking the sales clerk on the ship. They sell them on the ship.

They sell cruddy watches on the ship, bad art, and poor quality jewelry as well.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

What does any of that have to do with this subject.

[Heidi13]

13 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

Only if the film is metalized. Plastic has no effect at all. A60 is. ldubs thanks for that. I concur. Using inexpensive UHF FM is a far better than a cellphone ending up in the pool or dropped and stepped on by the kids. However, a cell phone is certainly more private. 

Ship windows are certainly not plastic, even ones that aren't A-60 rated. As the Chief indicated, they are multiple layers of glass with additional layers. They are also significantly thicker and heavier than the average hull plate and from way too many years of carrying radios on ships, the propogation isn't much better than through steel.

 

For casual use, on a ship, UHF will probably work if in close proximity, but when you require effective communications, you require repeater systems. 

[chengkp75]

18 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

Try asking the sales clerk on the ship. They sell them on the ship.

 

17 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

They sell cruddy watches on the ship, bad art, and poor quality jewelry as well.

 

16 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

What does any of that have to do with this subject.

Really?  You can't follow from A-B-C?  Just because they sell them on the ship is no guarantee that they will work, any more than their "guarantee" that the art sold at auction is "fine art" and valuable.

[navybankerteacher]

21 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

Try asking the sales clerk on the ship. They sell them on the ship.

Oh, that proves it!!!  

 

 Nobody on any ship would ever sell anything for a price more than it is worth,  and no sales clerk would ever give any misleading information.

 

 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

Sorry I got you all upset. I was just saying. If they tell you it will work and it does not. Return them. If no returns. Do not buy them. Simple. Please do not make a big issue out of this. Plus I never said the windows are plastic. If you are going to quote me. At least do it correctly. I said plastic FILM! Usually sandwiched in the glass. Had those for all my stores. Hurricane protected windows. I see those talkies used a lot on the ships. This is now getting out of hand. 

[SRF]

On 5/11/2019 at 7:09 AM, chengkp75 said:

 

 

Really?  You can't follow from A-B-C?  Just because they sell them on the ship is no guarantee that they will work, any more than their "guarantee" that the art sold at auction is "fine art" and valuable.

 He is CB at Sea Junior

[Heidi13]

My thoughts too.🙂

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

Here ya go. Putting a big dent into you saying not going to work on the ship. 

Walkie talkies! We used them on the last cruise since we had a big family with multiple rooms, and it was awesome! It even worked when part of the group got off the boat and stayed near the port. I was able to chat with them and meet up off the boat when my daughter was done with her nap one  of the days.

They do work just fine.

[donaldsc]

2 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

Here ya go. Putting a big dent into you saying not going to work on the ship. 

Walkie talkies! We used them on the last cruise since we had a big family with multiple rooms, and it was awesome! It even worked when part of the group got off the boat and stayed near the port. I was able to chat with them and meet up off the boat when my daughter was done with her nap one  of the days.

They do work just fine.

 

1) I am sure that the rest of the passengers who had to overhearing your conversations really appreciated them.

 

2) It might have been illegal using them off ship in certain countries.

 

DON

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

No different than any cell phone conversation if on speaker. GMRS /FRS radios Comply with national and International regulations.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

UPDATE These radios NOT LEGAL to use in the UK or Europe.

[Schoifmom]

50 minutes ago, twodaywonder said:

No different than any cell phone conversation if on speaker. 

 

Which is also significantly annoying to people around them.  What's that old saying??? Something about two wrongs...

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

I totally agree. Ever notice 5 or 6 sitting at a table for dinner and everyone of them are on there cell phones. Totally ignorant. Take my wife "PLEASE" 🙂 She hated seeing this wherever we went. She now has an iPhone. You guessed it. I do not think she ever puts it down all day for more than 15 min. Now is aggravates only me. Our T-Mobile shows my phone 0-10 min for a month. I only use it when necessary. OK so I am on Cruise Critic a lot. Guess I should look in the mirror.

[Heidi13]

6 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

Here ya go. Putting a big dent into you saying not going to work on the ship. 

Walkie talkies! We used them on the last cruise since we had a big family with multiple rooms, and it was awesome! It even worked when part of the group got off the boat and stayed near the port. I was able to chat with them and meet up off the boat when my daughter was done with her nap one  of the days.

They do work just fine.

I'm happy for you that you got to talk with radios.

 

Your experience is obviously vastly superior to the 80 + years that the Chief & I have spent working at sea, cussing radios before the advent of repeater systems.🙂

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

On 5/21/2019 at 7:21 PM, Heidi13 said:

I'm happy for you that you got to talk with radios.

 

Your experience is obviously vastly superior to the 80 + years that the Chief & I have spent working at sea, cussing radios before the advent of repeater systems.🙂

A remark I will now reply to. You said this not me. Vastly superior. Just a touch about my background. RF communications design engineer and including manufacturing of such. I will not go further into what I have done over the past 59 years. I was a ham operator at 14 with a general license. I also have a commercial FCC license that gives me the permission to work on any kind of transmitters.I have no idea what you used on a ship 80+ years ago. I worked for 10 years at the Motorola communications factory in Sunrise Florida. The very first high power SMALL hand held portable walkie talkie. Motorola introduced the HT 220 with 5 watts of power available in a portable small size. That was about 1970 give or take. Prior to that was the HT 100 and HT 200 with very little power. They did not use a power amp as did the HT 220 by the way. HT stands for Handi Talkie in 1951 Motorola Got the trade mark for Walkie Talkie. Whatever you used on the ship was big. Nothing like the small 5 watt UHF radios now. Back then they also had high quieting if you know what that is. Very little sensitivity, not able to receive to weak signals. Prior to the HT series, there were back pack two way radios and so called walkie talkies a little bigger than a brick with very little range. I did not use any walkie talkies on a cruise. What I posted was taken from another one. So I guess that family was just blowing smoke. Here it is again. 

We used them on the last cruise since we had a big family with multiple rooms, and it was awesome! It even worked when part of the group got off the boat and stayed near the port. I was able to chat with them and meet up off the boat when my daughter was done with her nap one  of the days.

They do work just fine.

[donaldsc]

1 hour ago, twodaywonder said:

A remark I will now reply to. You said this not me. Vastly superior. Just a touch about my background. RF communications design engineer and including manufacturing of such. I will not go further into what I have done over the past 59 years. I was a ham operator at 14 with a general license. I also have a commercial FCC license that gives me the permission to work on any kind of transmitters.I have no idea what you used on a ship 80+ years ago. I worked for 10 years at the Motorola communications factory in Sunrise Florida. The very first high power SMALL hand held portable walkie talkie. Motorola introduced the HT 220 with 5 watts of power available in a portable small size. That was about 1970 give or take. Prior to that was the HT 100 and HT 200 with very little power. They did not use a power amp as did the HT 220 by the way. HT stands for Handi Talkie in 1951 Motorola Got the trade mark for Walkie Talkie. Whatever you used on the ship was big. Nothing like the small 5 watt UHF radios now. Back then they also had high quieting if you know what that is. Very little sensitivity, not able to receive to weak signals. Prior to the HT series, there were back pack two way radios and so called walkie talkies a little bigger than a brick with very little range. I did not use any walkie talkies on a cruise. What I posted was taken from another one. So I guess that family was just blowing smoke. Here it is again. 

We used them on the last cruise since we had a big family with multiple rooms, and it was awesome! It even worked when part of the group got off the boat and stayed near the port. I was able to chat with them and meet up off the boat when my daughter was done with her nap one  of the days.

They do work just fine.

 

http://www.walkie-talkie-radio.co.uk/information/international-issues

 

FRS / GMRS AMERICAN WALKIE TALKIES

FRS and GMRS are American official standards for consumer radios widely sold in shops in those countries.

They have 14 - 22 channels, on frequencies at 462 and 467MHz. They will not communicate with European PMR446 radios and are NOT LEGAL to use in the UK or Europe.

In the USA and Canada the electrical mains voltage is 120 volts, rather than the 240 volts used in Europe and the United Kingdom, so there could be problems with UK voltage blowing up the US 120v chargers.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "combined" European / American walkie-talkie that is legal to use in both places, since such a radio would, by definition, be capable of transmitting on non-legal frequencies as well, and would therefore not be legal in either country.

You cannot modify an actual PMR446 radio to work on the American FRS/GMRS channels, or vice-versa. You CAN, however program a UK non-PMR446 radio to use the American FRS and GMRS frequencies.

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

A remark I will now reply to. You said this not me. Vastly superior. Just a touch about my background. RF communications design engineer and including manufacturing of such. I will not go further into what I have done over the past 59 years. I was a ham operator at 14 with a general license. I also have a commercial FCC license that gives me the permission to work on any kind of transmitters.I have no idea what you used on a ship 80+ years ago. I worked for 10 years at the Motorola communications factory in Sunrise Florida. The very first high power SMALL hand held portable walkie talkie. Motorola introduced the HT 220 with 5 watts of power available in a portable small size. That was about 1970 give or take. Prior to that was the HT 100 and HT 200 with very little power. They did not use a power amp as did the HT 220 by the way. HT stands for Handi Talkie in 1951 Motorola Got the trade mark for Walkie Talkie. Whatever you used on the ship was big. Nothing like the small 5 watt UHF radios now. Back then they also had high quieting if you know what that is. Very little sensitivity, not able to receive to weak signals. Prior to the HT series, there were back pack two way radios and so called walkie talkies a little bigger than a brick with very little range. I did not use any walkie talkies on a cruise. What I posted was taken from another one. So I guess that family was just blowing smoke. Here it is again. 

We used them on the last cruise since we had a big family with multiple rooms, and it was awesome! It even worked when part of the group got off the boat and stayed near the port. I was able to chat with them and meet up off the boat when my daughter was done with her nap one  of the days.

They do work just fine.

Since you don't seem to understand what Andy was saying, in light of the bolded statement above, he meant that he had 40 years experience and I have 40 years experience in the maritime world, not that he had worked 80 years ago.  Really.  Let me say that my company currently uses the Motorola HT750, which while not their most recent model, was in production until 2015.  Even on a relatively simple and smaller ship like our tankers, we have spotty reception without using base stations and repeaters, and my experience on cruise ships with NCL showed me that without the repeater antennas around the ship, that communication across the many decks of those ships was virtually impossible.

 

I find it very interesting that in two posts now, you have apparently quoted another poster's experience with radios, yet you did not attribute this to another person by saying it was their experience, nor by using quotes (in either post), passing this off as your personal experience, when in fact you have no experience in using a radio on a ship, as you finally admit to above.

 

I have always said that reception is spotty, and while it may work one day between two given locations on a ship, later that day or the next day conditions can change and reception is impossible between the same two locations.  And no one has claimed that reception to someone off ship would not work, that takes the Faraday cage out of the equation.

 

So, while you may have more theoretical experience with radios on ships, Andy and I have more practical and real life experience with radios on ships than you admit you do, and more than virtually every single passenger on a cruise ship.

Edited May 29, 2019 by chengkp75

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

Whatever. Your radios were old junk compared to current UHF FM communications. Inexpensive radios like the GMRS/FRS radios are far superior to the old radios even the Motorola $1000 radios in 1070. You are correct. There cannot be 100% communications on any ship or in any building. But to compare todays radios to the ones you used, really. No comparison at all  have I ever used radios on a ship (Cruise ship to be exact) Well lets see. I was in the radio gang in the NAVY for several years. Like I said I am not about to offer my full background. Quote  "Let me say that my company" your company? Did not realize you owned the company. Sorry. My mistake. Guess you are the one who know all.

 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

By the way The HT750 was a good radio Key word was. Far better ones out now. I never said 100% communications on the ship either. You basically say they will not work on a cruise ship and that is totally incorrect. Spotty is also incorrect. Under certain circumstances you are correct. But in most cases what they are used for on a CRUISE SHIP they will work just fine.

[SRF]

Wow, this is amazing. Modern radios violate the laws of physics with respect to Faraday cages.

 

 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

16 minutes ago, SRF said:

Wow, this is amazing. Modern radios violate the laws of physics with respect to Faraday cages.

 

 

Please. What a remark. Modern radios explanation for those who do not know. Extremely high sensitivity. Meaning they can receive real week signals. Making them far superior to the older radios. yes, even those from a few years ago. Every year they are getting better and better,. Better sensitivity and selectivity. less and less expensive.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, twodaywonder said:

But in most cases what they are used for on a CRUISE SHIP they will work just fine.

Shipping companies, especially cruise line are some of the cheapest and most cost-conscious businesses, yet they find it necessary to install expensive repeater systems throughout the ship. Regardless of improved portable radio technology and better sensitivity, even on current newbuildings, cruise lines are still installing the expensive base stations & repeater systems.

 

If portable UHF radios work, as you allege, why are they still wasting money on repeater systems?

 

The reason is what the Chief & I have posted multiple times. While you can get through a few steel bulkheads, you cannot communicate effectively on a cruise ship without the repeater system.

 

I suspect your experience is also limited to being a passenger, who does not have access to extensive areas of the ship, which have even more structural steel/fire segregation than passenger spaces with cabins, lounges & open decks. The Chief and I most likely have a very different definition of "effective communications", as when called on the radio, the Captain and Chief Engineer need to hear every word clearly.

 

Prior to the advent of repeater systems, a short communication could take many minutes, with "Say Again" being the most common words spoken. Trying to communicate did have a benefit, as we got lots of exercise trying to find a spot with better signal strength.

 

With respect to improving sensitivity to improve reception. Prior to installing repeater systems on our existing ships, we conducted signal strength testing to determine how many repeaters were required. After going through sufficient bulkheads, zero signal strength remains, so no matter how sensitive the radio, there is no signal remaining. Bridge to Engine Room will never work with portable radios.