The future of Edge-class?

[villauk]

3 hours ago, mnocket said:

I think it really comes down to the infinite verandas - everything else can be changed if necessary.

 

If the IVs become generally viewed as oceanview cabins with large windows that open, it will impact the desirability of Edge class ships on warm weather itineraries. It's too early to tell if this will happen or not.  

 

One sign to look for is whether or not other lines adopt the IV concept.  The cruise industry seems to "follow-the-leader".  If one ship/line introduces a feature that proves popular, the competition will often follow suit.  If the industry sees the IV concept as the way of the future, I would suspect we will see it in future ship designs (yes this will take time).  If not, I suspect we will see the Edge class ships moved to cold weather itineraries and X return to traditional balconies on follow-on ships.

 

So what do you think?  Will other lines introduce IVs in the future?

 

 

Viking are used to this design in their river cruise ships and so are very familiar with the concept, yet didn’t apply it to any of their new builds over the last few years (when they diversified into ocean cruising). Does that not say something? I imagine they would have considered it being relative ‘experts’ after having their river cruising business for many years.

[Fairsky84]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

That is ugly....might be the camera.  At least the life boats are tucked in and do not block cabin  windows

 

Here’s a short video via Twitter that shows the entire model of MSC’s World Class ship. Definitely original looking. You can see the vast majority of cabins are traditional balconies. Worth noting that it’s be built at the same shipyard that’s building Celebrity’s Edge-class ships, so the including of some IV cabins makes sense. 

 

 

[Silkroad]

16 hours ago, Cruising Forever! said:

I've posted this elsewhere but once again, I think people need to do their homework before booking any cruise ship... especially a brand new class of ship.  Celebrity certainly didn't post any misleading videos or previews when they introduced the concept a few years ago.

 

They most certainly did post misleading information. There was nothing in the early marketing videos or photos to indicate that the finished Infinite Veranda:

 

• would be less deep than the video/photos indicated, thus making the veranda very crowded.
• would not have air tight bifold doors.
• would have climate controls that made it impossible to be on the veranda, even with bifold doors closed, without the AC/heat shutting off.
• would have a Veranda window that might be locked at any time, and for any duration, by the Captain.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Silkroad

[Fairsky84]

55 minutes ago, villauk said:

Viking are used to this design in their river cruise ships and so are very familiar with the concept, yet didn’t apply it to any of their new builds over the last few years (when they diversified into ocean cruising). Does that not say something? I imagine they would have considered it being relative ‘experts’ after having their river cruising business for many years.

 

Great point. If anyone should have seen the benefits of IV it would have been Viking.

 

It’s still surprising to me that Celebrity opted to make almost all the rooms on Edge Infinite Veranda cabins. With such a new concept, I figured they would have tested it with a fewer number of cabins before implementing the design ship-wide. (That appears to be what MSC is doing on their World Class ships). 

[hcat]

I think the structure of the ship may have dictated the balcony  and IV situation...

[Reel Love]

On 4/2/2019 at 9:32 PM, twodjs said:

So that is why Celebrity offers different design choices on M, S and E class ships. Edge IV works great for us, but if you desire multiple cabins with common balcony access, stick with the M and S class ships. Then we're all happy!

Not sure where I said I wasn't happy???  Certainly did not say that IV balconies did not work for others, nor did I say it did not work for us personally.  I did say that we had a great time, and simply commented on the fact that the IV balconies changed the social dynamic more than I had anticipated.

[twodjs]

11 minutes ago, Reel Love said:

Not sure where I said I wasn't happy???  Certainly did not say that IV balconies did not work for others, nor did I say it did not work for us personally.  I did say that we had a great time, and simply commented on the fact that the IV balconies changed the social dynamic more than I had anticipated.

Sorry, I assumed that being used to that group interaction with the common balcony several times a day, it would be a bummer to not have that during a cruise. I get it now...My bad! 

[AL3XCruise]

7 hours ago, villauk said:

Viking are used to this design in their river cruise ships and so are very familiar with the concept, yet didn’t apply it to any of their new builds over the last few years (when they diversified into ocean cruising). Does that not say something?

 

River and ocean cruising are different markets, and the ships serving them are very different designs.  The fact Viking didn't choose to use an IV concept may simply be that they didn't want to take on the technical risk.  Celebrity has repeatedly said that the IVs required substantial innovation in structural design when compared to other cruise ships, and there were both financial and time costs associated with this.  With Viking trying to start up an entirely new business, they had enough risks to mitigate and learning curves to climb.  Thus, the decision may have been as simple as not wanting to add complexity.  

 

4 hours ago, hcat said:

I think the structure of the ship may have dictated the balcony  and IV situation...

 

What I've read suggests the ships structure was dictated by the desire to incorporate the IVs.  Major structural components were moved deeper into the superstructure.  This is the reason given as to why M and S class ships cannot be retrofitted to include IVs (at least not on a large scale).  I would surmise going the other way is more likely: with the structural components deep inside the ship, modifications to the outer walls to incorporate a more traditional balcony might be possible.  I have a feeling the Apex will be all but identical to the Edge, but the next two hulls might see changes.  I wouldn't want to bet on it though!

 

Given what I've seen on CC, IVs seem popular enough to justify their existence.  I wonder, however, if it was unwise to build a ship with so many IVs, especially with it intended primarily for tropical destinations.  I guess booking statistics and guest surveys will determine how many IVs will be on post Edge-class ships (as well as RCI ships).

[Cruising Forever!]

7 hours ago, Silkroad said:

 

They most certainly did post misleading information. There was nothing in the early marketing videos or photos to indicate that the finished Infinite Veranda:

 

• would be less deep than the video/photos indicated, thus making the veranda very crowded.
• would not have air tight bifold doors.
• would have climate controls that made it impossible to be on the veranda, even with bifold doors closed, without the AC/heat shutting off.
• would have a Veranda window that might be locked at any time, and for any duration, by the Captain.

 

Less deep?  I don't see that at all in comparing the videos to the final product.  I think that's a stretch.  I don't think it was sold that the bi-fold doors would be airtight.  They certainly didn't look that way at all.  (I do remember speculation- always should be taken with a grain of salt if it doesn't come out of Celebrity- that those doors would "tint"... but again, nothing in the pre-build videos showed that) 

On the AC controls, I think you meant to say that the AC shuts off when the Veranda "window" is open.  Yes, that I will give you.  That should be something they should change in the AC controls software.  (I'm surprised someone hasn't figured out a way to fool the switch there.)

As for the Veranda window being locked from time to time, that's for cleaning the glass and during storms, isn't it?  This is a logical precaution.  I don't think they do it willy-nilly or with the intent to annoy the passenger.  Basically the "window" is your glass sliding door in an IV... one that is horizontal rather than vertical.  The veranda is the cabin in it's entirety.

I'm still perplexed though why the bi-fold doors (should we call them French doors?) don't have drapes on them.  It wasn't presented that way at all in the videos, but it sure would make these rooms much nicer from what I'm reading.  One less thing to break should the electric sun block fail on the "window".

About the only thing I hate from the videos (which seems to be in the finished product) is the GRAY EVERYWHERE motif that people think so fashionable.  I can't wait till this craze goes away.  It's like the designers became obsessed with house flipping shows! LOL

[Silkroad]

6 hours ago, Cruising Forever! said:

Less deep?  I don't see that at all in comparing the videos to the final product.  I think that's a stretch.  I don't think it was sold that the bi-fold doors would be airtight.  They certainly didn't look that way at all. 

Neither I, nor several others on this forum, think it’s a “stretch” to say the finished balcony appears smaller than the early CAD videos (including some who have already sailed in IV cabins). Ditto for thinking the AC would work the way normal balconies do (if one goes onto the balcony, and shuts the balcony doors, the room AC remains on & the room remains cool). My memory of the videos is that the human figures didn’t need to move furniture to open or close the bi-fold doors. They also had plenty of room to walk around the furniture. BTW, I agree that the term “bi-fold doors” is cumbersome, but that’s been the term used on the forum, perhaps to empathize that these are not typical balconies or balcony doors. 

 

My point is that many of us watched the build obsessively, and hunted down everything we could find about Edge (and shared it on CC) before booking. We certainly did our “homework”, but those of us who booked early took a risk on a product that wasn’t yet complete (though we also got the best fares). Experienced people know marketing fantasies don’t often reflect reality, and experienced travelers know how to adapt to reality and have a great time. That said, I certainly appreciate the comments and balanced reviews written by people who have sailed Edge. Celebrity has already made some changes in response to constructive passenger feedback, and hopefully, they’re not done. When I board Edge, in 24 days, I’ll benefit from that feedback.

 

Edge is a beautiful new ship, filled with with fabulous art, and some compelling design features in her public spaces. I’m sure I’ll have a wonderful time. The IV cabin and bathroom look lovely, but I’m not certain I’ll want to book another one. That will depend on how often I find the IV window locked (when no window washing is in progress), and how annoying I find the AC/veranda issue. Regardless, I shall add my review to the mix, though it may not be live😎

Edited April 4, 2019 by Silkroad

[Luvcrusn]

We were online the moment that Edge bookings opened to take advantage of the opportunity to be among the first onboard and then decided to wait. We've watched the prices skyrocket. We also now realize the ship, as it's sailing today isn't for us for many reasons unrelated to the price. The IVs don't function in a way that we like. DH likes sitting outside while I dress for the evening.  He couldn't do that while I blowdry hair and put on makeup without the room heating up. He often wakes at night and goes onto the balcony to read his kindle and listen to the sea while I'm sleeping.  If he did that on Edge, the opening shade, doors and window would wake me and the room would heat up as well. I like waking early and sitting on the balcony with steaming coffee and a croissant while he's sleeping and for the same reasons it wouldn't work. While we are in Caribbean or other warm weather ports, we like to go on the balcony to spray on sunscreen and bug repellant so we're not breathing in the spray fumes. We couldn't do that with the IVs. 

[clskinsfan]

I think the concept of Edge and the IV is pretty neat myself. What isnt neat is the pricing. For example Edge and Apex are almost double to price to sail over the Summit on a 1/21 sailing. I understand new ship means new pricing. But DOUBLE?

[tallnthensome]

On 4/2/2019 at 12:16 AM, Magik Bee said:

Seriously, next time I'm doing a 7 night back 2 back. Because YES so much was amazing with the technology and despite the naysaysers - Eden just sort of a hidden in plain sight!

You still telling people how great your Edge trip was even though you’ve never set foot on her? Seriously, get a life ..... Funny how you say you have no pics of your entire cruise .....  because your cell phone died. How convenient ...... Sad. Maybe you can write more fake reviews so the moderators can removed them as well for being fake like your others. 

[hcat]

22 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

You still telling people how great your Edge trip was even though you’ve never set foot on her? Seriously, get a life ..... Funny how you say you have no pics of your entire cruise .....  because your cell phone died. How convenient ...... Sad. Maybe you can write more fake reviews so the moderators can removed them as well for being fake like your others. 

Hope you reported the post if it is indeed fake as suspected,..We have the Bee blocked and only see  the posts if it is  part of another poster's response. 

 

Having sailed on EDGE in AQ class in an IV,  we have formed our own  early, opinions but enjoy the bona fide reviews and hearing about changes and updates.. 

 

We are going back to EDGE  in Nov for a non AQ class/Blu, non IV cabin perspective...Looking forward to it!  So much more to enjoy and explore!

 

.We also booked APEX for 2020,  with Summit in between..We have not been able to move  into suite categories but still enjoy the reviews and comments!

Edited April 4, 2019 by hcat

[villauk]

1 hour ago, Luvcrusn said:

. While we are in Caribbean or other warm weather ports, we like to go on the balcony to spray on sunscreen and bug repellant so we're not breathing in the spray fumes. We couldn't do that with the IVs. 

 

 

We also do that and the kids come on to our balcony to do the same from their inside cabin.

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

On ‎4‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 10:53 PM, Fairsky84 said:

I’m wondering what others think about the future of the Edge-class. Clearly, Celebrity took a lot of risks with this new class of ships, and not all of thier innovations have been well received. The goal was to appeal to new (younger) cruisers and that means possibly alienating existing (older) customers. I’m worried they may have only succeeded at driving away their loyal customers without really attracting the younger ones.

 

Some Edge innovations will be easy to fix. Like the focus on cell phones and some furnishing choices. Others will not. Like the infinite verandas. Will Celebrity make changes on the upcoming Edge class ships still under construction (Apex, Opus, and Luxe)? Is a fundamental rethink of the cabin design with a return to traditional balconies even possible? And does anyone else think the Flying Carpet is unlikely to be a feature on all future Edge class ships? 

 

Edge may represent the first time a new class from RCI/Celebrity has missed the mark. Going all the way back to Song of Norway and Sovereign of the Seas, company has been known for real design innovations that change the industry. I’ll always appreciate their vision and risk-taking. But Edge feels like a swing and miss to me.

on our Jan 6th Edge cruise the Captain said in the Q & A session that the Apex will be very similar but the next 2 ships will be "Different". He did not give details on what "different" meant.

[NantahalaCruiser]

On 4/2/2019 at 9:32 PM, twodjs said:

So that is why Celebrity offers different design choices on M, S and E class ships. Edge IV works great for us, but if you desire multiple cabins with common balcony access, stick with the M and S class ships. Then we're all happy!

Note that M-class does not have balcony dividers that can be opened - only S-class.

[twodjs]

Did I read on a post that the air will remain on with the veranda window open if you turn off the "green" button on the small screen by the door? That would shoot down any complaints by guests who hated the design because they said the air automatically turned off if the window was open. Perhaps our button was off because I thought I felt cold air coming from our vent when the window was open. And we didn't have an issue of a hot, muggy cabin. If this is correct, the cabin steward should have made that clear when we first arrived.

[TeeRick]

On 4/4/2019 at 10:50 AM, clskinsfan said:

I think the concept of Edge and the IV is pretty neat myself. What isnt neat is the pricing. For example Edge and Apex are almost double to price to sail over the Summit on a 1/21 sailing. I understand new ship means new pricing. But DOUBLE?

HaHa hopefully Celebrity does not fix this by doubling the price of Summit now that it is refurbished!

[hcat]

We'd like to know about the green button feature....would be great if true.

 

We  had turned off the " green" feature right away having been informed that doing so stopped the Interior AC from going off while we were away from the cabin...But the AC   did go off when we had the bifolds and window open.. Always willing to learn..

 

Not enough instructions were given for these new IV  cabins..window, lights, comfort controls , window shade and esp the AQ class shower...one little  booklet  in a few languages would have been very  helpful!

Edited April 5, 2019 by hcat

[wwcruisers]

On 4/3/2019 at 11:34 AM, richsea said:

I would be shocked if any other line introduced IVs.

I hope that they don't, Rich. Faux balconies are a deal-breaker for me! 😣

[UnorigionalName]

On 4/3/2019 at 11:34 AM, richsea said:

I would be shocked if any other line introduced IVs.

 

I don't know, I can see a mix maybe? I wonder what the overall preference will end up being.  I want to try it, but given everything that's been shown, given same price, pretty sure we would like the IV better than standard balcony.  Don't like direct sunlight, don't get room service. having a bed near and being able to have the iv open sounds wonderful.  

 

In any event, if they want to attract Chinese and Asian passengers to the non-asian cruises, IV's will help.  Asians hate direct sun.

 

[twodjs]

Just to be clear, you WILL get direct sun on an IV if you are on the sunny side, unless you have an additional overhang from the next deck up. The IV mearly has a finished ceiling, instead of the open beams on a typical balcony, so slightly lower. 

[hcat]

1 hour ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

I don't know, I can see a mix maybe? I wonder what the overall preference will end up being.  I want to try it, but given everything that's been shown, given same price, pretty sure we would like the IV better than standard balcony.  Don't like direct sunlight, don't get room service. having a bed near and being able to have the iv open sounds wonderful.  

 

In any event, if they want to attract Chinese and Asian passengers to the non-asian cruises, IV's will help.  Asians hate direct sun.

 

See this review... post #1 has good photo on an IV with the overhang.. sounds perfect for you!

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2652077-reviewopinion- of-the-edge-eastern-caribbean-sailing-in-march-2019/

 

If link does not work its the  review posted today by Mamachach

Edited April 5, 2019 by hcat

[villauk]

9 minutes ago, twodjs said:

Just to be clear, you WILL get direct sun on an IV if you are on the sunny side, unless you have an additional overhang from the next deck up. The IV mearly has a finished ceiling, instead of the open beams on a typical balcony, so slightly lower. 

 

 

But it’s not the same as going out on a balcony and feeling the breeze all around you. Surely it’s just like sitting next to your window at home when it’s wide open? Look at hotels, you always pay more if you choose a room with a proper balcony compared to a room with a window - it’s a selling point.

 

1 hour ago, wwcruisers said:

I hope that they don't, Rich. Faux balconies are a deal-breaker for me! 😣

 

Yes, me too.