Pre-set Tables in World Cafe Is Creeping Me Out

[SargassoPirate]

First couple of days on our first Viking Ocen cruise but I am getting creeped out.

 

We went to the World Cafe on boarding day and noticed the tables were all pre-set with plastic placemats, siverware rolls, and tumblers and coffee cups placed upside down on the plastic placemat.  I decided to enjoy a beer with lunch and watch to see how the tables were cleaned between PAX. It was gross. 

 

The same people that cleared the tables then reset them. There was no handwashing sink or santizer station for them to use between handling dirty and clean eating utensils. The placemats were "cleaned" with a swipe of the used cloth napkin and left on the table.  Then clean tumblers and coffee cups were placed inverted on the "clean" placemat.  If one person sat at a table for two, the extra tumblers and coffee cups were removed and returned to the clean supply and used to set another table.  The next morning at breakfast, the same practices were observed, plus then the clean silverware was placed directly on the placemats and the open-topped container of coffee cream was left on the table between seatings. 

 

Ever wonder how norovirus can spread through a ship so fast?

[ruimin]

12 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

First couple of days on our first Viking Ocen cruise but I am getting creeped out.

 

We went to the World Cafe on boarding day and noticed the tables were all pre-set with plastic placemats, siverware rolls, and tumblers and coffee cups placed upside down on the plastic placemat.  I decided to enjoy a beer with lunch and watch to see how the tables were cleaned between PAX. It was gross. 

 

The same people that cleared the tables then reset them. There was no handwashing sink or santizer station for them to use between handling dirty and clean eating utensils. The placemats were "cleaned" with a swipe of the used cloth napkin and left on the table.  Then clean tumblers and coffee cups were placed inverted on the "clean" placemat.  If one person sat at a table for two, the extra tumblers and coffee cups were removed and returned to the clean supply and used to set another table.  The next morning at breakfast, the same practices were observed, plus then the clean silverware was placed directly on the placemats and the open-topped container of coffee cream was left on the table between seatings. 

 

Ever wonder how norovirus can spread through a ship so fast?

What ship are you on?

[GeezerCouple]

18 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

First couple of days on our first Viking Ocen cruise but I am getting creeped out.

 

We went to the World Cafe on boarding day and noticed the tables were all pre-set with plastic placemats, siverware rolls, and tumblers and coffee cups placed upside down on the plastic placemat.  I decided to enjoy a beer with lunch and watch to see how the tables were cleaned between PAX. It was gross. 

 

The same people that cleared the tables then reset them. There was no handwashing sink or santizer station for them to use between handling dirty and clean eating utensils. The placemats were "cleaned" with a swipe of the used cloth napkin and left on the table.  Then clean tumblers and coffee cups were placed inverted on the "clean" placemat.  If one person sat at a table for two, the extra tumblers and coffee cups were removed and returned to the clean supply and used to set another table.  The next morning at breakfast, the same practices were observed, plus then the clean silverware was placed directly on the placemats and the open-topped container of coffee cream was left on the table between seatings. 

 

Ever wonder how norovirus can spread through a ship so fast?

 

Putting the cups and glassware *upside down* on "used" placemats (or even so-called "cleaned" tables) !??!

Ditto any flatware that is placed directly on those surfaces, rather than in rolled napkins or ON folded napkins!

 

Noro doesn't need that kind of "help" 😠

Nor do other contagious/infectious "things".

 

GC

[lextrvlr]

Glassware upside down on table is wrong and disgusting! Is the same done in the Restaurant?

[philw1776]

Great item to have a constructive helpful discussion with the ship's restaurant manager.  Staff names are posted in public areas onboard.  Let us know how it goes.

[SargassoPirate]

2 minutes ago, lextrvlr said:

Glassware upside down on table is wrong and disgusting! Is the same done in the Restaurant?

Not in the restaurant. Glassware is rightside up and the tablecloths are changed between PAX.  I did complain to one of the World Cafe supervisors and his response was non-committal and he didn't see a problem.

[SargassoPirate]

6 minutes ago, lextrvlr said:

Glassware upside down on table is wrong and disgusting! Is the same done in the Restaurant?t

Today they distributed a nice How's It Going form soliciting comments. I'll give it a try and see if I get a response.

Edited April 6, 2019 by SargassoPirate

[philw1776]

4 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Not in the restaurant. Glassware is rightside up and the tablecloths are changed between PAX.  I did complain to one of the World Cafe supervisors and his response was non-committal and he didn't see a problem.

Supervisors report to the ship's restaurant manager who manages ALL dining sites.  Talk to her or him.
Unsure if restaurant manager reports to hotel manager or to captain.

[GeezerCouple]

21 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Not in the restaurant. Glassware is rightside up and the tablecloths are changed between PAX.  I did complain to one of the World Cafe supervisors and his response was non-committal and he didn't see a problem.

 

The fact that a food service *supervisor* did NOT see a problem is a HUGE problem in itself!

Who knows what kind of training could have been given, or what the general oversight is, with that lack of knowledge and comprehension of rather basic hygiene.  Not good at all.

 

GC

[lextrvlr]

 Sargasso Pirate have you gotten any positive response ?

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, lextrvlr said:

 Sargasso Pirate have you gotten any positive response ?

Met with the restaurants manager this morning, day 4 of the cruise. He said that Viking's standard is to pre-set the tables as I described and that everything is sanitized between patrons. I told him that was not what I observed and he admitted that he had received my written complaint and that what I observed was not what was supposed to happen.

 

THEN, I get back on board this afternoon, and there is a letter from the Captain stating that they were experiencing a spread of Norovirus and were changing the operations in the World Cafe. Duh. 

 

I feel vindicated in that I reported my observations but sorry for the folks with the GIs since the shoddy sanitation practices have probably facilitated the spread.

 

Be wary of any pre-set table on any cruise until you have a chance to observe their sanitation practices.

[lextrvlr]

Many thanks for your response. We will be taking our first VO cruise this summer and are very hopeful that their procedures will have changed by then. Evidently, one is almost forced to dine in the World Cafe when the Restaurant is closed. You don't have to be a health inspector or a sanitarian to know that what they are doing is wrong.

[Kona Cruiser]

Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention. I will certainly be cognizant of this issue when I sail this summer. I hope the management at Viking reads these comments. I expected better from them. 

[Portolan]

Hi.  New to this forum since our first Viking Ocean cruise is still in the future...next January.

 

So, a question after reading the above.  Is there any evidence that Viking monitors this forum (and therefore might bring this to the attention of corporate execs)?  We mostly cruise with Regent and a surprising (and impressive) thing is that the Regent president, Jason Montague, posts pretty much weekly when there is something like this in a thread.  Sometimes there is a immediate adjustment of policy or procedures in response.

[SargassoPirate]

5 minutes ago, Portolan said:

Hi.  New to this forum since our first Viking Ocean cruise is still in the future...next January.

 

So, a question after reading the above.  Is there any evidence that Viking monitors this forum (and therefore might bring this to the attention of corporate execs)?  We mostly cruise with Regent and a surprising (and impressive) thing is that the Regent president, Jason Montague, posts pretty much weekly when there is something like this in a thread.  Sometimes there is a immediate adjustment of policy or procedures in response.

Since this is our first Viking Cruise, I don't know if corporate monitors these boards.

 

I will, however, send a letter to VO when we return home, especially since the restaurants manager said Viking's standard is to pre-set the tables. They are asking for a noro outbreak.

Edited April 7, 2019 by SargassoPirate

[Richard2]

22 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

First couple of days on our first Viking Ocen cruise but I am getting creeped out.

 

We went to the World Cafe on boarding day and noticed the tables were all pre-set with plastic placemats, siverware rolls, and tumblers and coffee cups placed upside down on the plastic placemat.  I decided to enjoy a beer with lunch and watch to see how the tables were cleaned between PAX. It was gross. 

 

The same people that cleared the tables then reset them. There was no handwashing sink or santizer station for them to use between handling dirty and clean eating utensils. The placemats were "cleaned" with a swipe of the used cloth napkin and left on the table.  Then clean tumblers and coffee cups were placed inverted on the "clean" placemat.  If one person sat at a table for two, the extra tumblers and coffee cups were removed and returned to the clean supply and used to set another table.  The next morning at breakfast, the same practices were observed, plus then the clean silverware was placed directly on the placemats and the open-topped container of coffee cream was left on the table between seatings. 

 

Ever wonder how norovirus can spread through a ship so fast?

 I want to confirm that your description is 100% accurate. Also, it is not unique to your ship. I've been on three different VO ships for our four cruises since April 2016, and this is the way it has been done in the World Cafe all the time. It has always bothered me and I have tried to take my own steps to give myself a clean surface and clean utensils by using paper napkins on the placemats, etc. It is going to take additional staff in the World Cafe to do it right. I hope this thread has consequences.

[Homosassa]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

 

I feel vindicated in that I reported my observations but sorry for the folks with the GIs since the shoddy sanitation practices have probably facilitated the spread.

 

 

Actually, it is those folks with shoddy hygienic practices (i.e.; not washing hands after using the bathroom) that has caused the spread of norovirus (it is a fecal/oral route).

[SargassoPirate]

16 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

Actually, it is those folks with shoddy hygienic practices (i.e.; not washing hands after using the bathroom) that has caused the spread of norovirus (it is a fecal/oral route)

Check the CDC website for further information on how norovirus is spread.  Touching contaminated surfaces is included and it can live on surfaces for hours.  It's interesting to note that the incubation period is 24 to 48 hours - just about what the ship is experiencing from boarding day and failure to clean and sanitize between food service patrons to the outbreak. Hmmm.

Edited April 7, 2019 by SargassoPirate

[sarch99]

Interesting thread.  I'll be on Sea next week and plan to eat often in the World Cafe.  I believe I'll be asking for fresh glassware at the very least.  

[GeezerCouple]

19 minutes ago, sarch99 said:

Interesting thread.  I'll be on Sea next week and plan to eat often in the World Cafe.  I believe I'll be asking for fresh glassware at the very least.  

 

"Yes, but..."

 

Note the OP's mention of removing the settings if fewer people sit down, and returning them to the "clean supply".

So you might get those same tumblers/flatware that were previously sitting on those tables, with critical surfaces ON the table.

 

GC

[sarch99]

3 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

"Yes, but..."

 

Note the OP's mention of removing the settings if fewer people sit down, and returning them to the "clean supply".

So you might get those same tumblers/flatware that were previously sitting on those tables, with critical surfaces ON the table.

 

GC

Inasmuch as the flatware is wrapped in a napkin, I'm not too worried about it.  As to the glassware, perhaps I'll just make sure to drink beer or wine to sanitize the glass.  🙂    Thanks to this post, I will be more aware, for sure.

[GeezerCouple]

4 minutes ago, sarch99 said:

Inasmuch as the flatware is wrapped in a napkin, I'm not too worried about it.  As to the glassware, perhaps I'll just make sure to drink beer or wine to sanitize the glass.  🙂    Thanks to this post, I will be more aware, for sure.

 

Almost...

 

From OP's post:

"...  The next morning at breakfast, the same practices were observed, plus then the clean silverware was placed directly on the placemats  ..."

 

This is just too risky for any high density grouping, and especially when Noro is a constant concern, and vigilance/caution/care are simply prudent.

 

But it's the general lack of either comprehension of the potential problems OR the utter disregard... and neither is okay.

Why WAIT for Noro to start spreading, and only then take some regular and appropriate precautions?

 

GC

[sarch99]

Caution is one thing; paranoia is another.  I very much appreciate the information given in this post and will most definitely be watchful.  I'm particularly glad the OP has made noise with Viking regarding the questionable table setting practice.  Hopefully, things will get changed.  In the meantime, if I see these things happening in the World Cafe, I'll make some noise, as well, and then go ahead and enjoy my cruise without worrying about something that might happen.

[Richard2]

I don't think anyone has expressed paranoia.

Regarding Norovirus, it can happen anywhere, but seems particularly unfortunate when one is spending a great deal of money for a trip they have looked forward to for a long time.

What is the purpose of the placemat? Why not just wipe off the table top, as is common in many restaurants? The placemat is sending a signal. The signal should be that this table does not have a fresh tablecloth, but an area has been set up for the customer that is clean and not used by the last person at the table. In the World Cafe, the placemat has a mesh weave that undoubtedly retains bacteria and food particles more than a clean smooth table top. I have sat down in the World Cafe and seen red sauce stains on my placement. You are putting your fork and spoon down directly on spots that previous guests have used for their fork and spoon. It is unpleasant.

[Paulchili]

Not very happy about reading all this as our first VO cruise is coming up in May but thank you for the heads-up.

Will pay more attention to this problem - maybe bring my own glassware from the cabin? That would be a real PIA and a deal breaker for future VO.