Pre-set Tables in World Cafe Is Creeping Me Out

[Rawmac]

What surfaces are wiped down, hopefully with an antibacterial solution?  Table tops?  Chair arms?  Probably.  But how many people put unclean objects (handbags, books, hats, especially hats, which are dirty, dirty things, even walking sticks) on tables to claim them while they go to the servery for their food?  Quite a few.  Chair arms' top surfaces will get an occasional cursory wipe, but is the underside of the arm, the bit that is gripped by your fingers, and the fingers of the person before you to move the chair, ever wiped? I think not.  Bug heaven?  To avoid the table tops and placemats, eat off the tray, which at least has been through a hot wash.

 

As VO is relatively inexperienced in Noro prevention,  the learning curve has to be made more steep.  It is not a game.  It is unfortunate that Noro usually arises as a result of passengers' habits but has to be dealt with by Viking, at their cost, and responsibility, and often after the fact.  Finding the germ carrier is impossible, but those behaving in an irresponsible manner could be spotted and gently spoken to by, say, the biggest person in the security team, prior to spending 48 hours in an open boat, towed behind Viking ***** while they become non-contagious, might concentrate minds?  Just a thought!  Perhaps a little birdie in the Deck 8 toilets could tell on the non-washers?

 

All my family have suffered Noro on more than one occasion.  I do not recommend it, having total lack of control of both ends for some days is not pleasant.   Nor is solitary confinement in the cabin, with the guilt of all the extra work imposed on the stewards and staff and travelling companion.  Never more than five yards from the bathroom.  Unable to concentrate on television.  At least on VO, one has a balcony; an inside cabin is hell.  And the personal feeling of having "Unclean" branded on your forehead when ship's quarantine is over.  Will you be fit for your long-haul flight(s) home?  With layovers?  Now there's a thing nobody's mentioned -- hours in a tube at 30,000 feet and only a wee biffy with a big queue.  You can always tell a past Noro sufferer -- the person singing "Happy Birthday" twice while concentrating on washing hands with soap and hot water, and using a paper towel to open the bathroom door.

 

Persuasion does not seem to work;  "you know it makes sense" does not make sense to everybody.  How about naming and shaming, or at least pointing fingers?  And a wee squirt of the bottle is only a salve to the conscience,  but does not kill 99% of all germs.  El Capitano needs to stress the topic on his embarkation talk and in the noon sermons, perhaps with defaulters at 12.30!

 

Happy Hand Wash!

 

 

 

[Dauntless]

7 hours ago, lextrvlr said:

 Evidently, one is almost forced to dine in the World Cafe when the Restaurant is closed. 

 

This is certainly not a true statement.  You can go the whole cruise without eating in world Cafe.  Since you haven't been on the cruise yet it's not a good idea to paint pictures with broad strokes.  The only time the restaurant isn't open, on some days is lunch.  Other venues are available on the ship.  Most do the World Cafe  at breakfast but the restaurant and Mamsen's are open.  For lunch, if the restaurant is not open, there is still Mamsen's and the pool grill and in the evening, there are many choices.  The deli at the Viking Bar on Deck one also has something to get you through if you don't like the normal offerings, or room service.

[Richard2]

Let's keep things in perspective. My negative reactions to the World Cafe are more a matter of finding the placemats to be unpleasant rather than a concern about norovirus. We eat in the World Cafe most of the time, preferring the simpler, shorter meals to those in the Dining Room. In about 60 days on board - virtually all breakfasts, and 90% of our lunches and dinners, we have never had a digestive problem. VO does not appear to have any unusual record of norovirus outbreaks. Since Jan 1, 2018, the CDC reports three outbreaks on VO ships, each involving about 4% of the passengers. They do a good job of containing the outbreaks, as no ship has had two outbreaks in a row. In 2018 and 2019, there have also been outbreaks on Crystal, Regent, Silversea, and Oceania, among others.

[Jim Avery]

1 minute ago, Richard2 said:

Let's keep things in perspective. My negative reactions to the World Cafe are more a matter of finding the placemats to be unpleasant rather than a concern about norovirus. We eat in the World Cafe most of the time, preferring the simpler, shorter meals to those in the Dining Room. In about 60 days on board - virtually all breakfasts, and 90% of our lunches and dinners, we have never had a digestive problem. VO does not appear to have any unusual record of norovirus outbreaks. Since Jan 1, 2018, the CDC reports three outbreaks on VO ships, each involving about 4% of the passengers. They do a good job of containing the outbreaks, as no ship has had two outbreaks in a row. In 2018 and 2019, there have also been outbreaks on Crystal, Regent, Silversea, and Oceania, among others.

I agree with you about no GI issues on VO.  120 days last year and no problems at all.  Keep in mind, if hotels were required to report noro and other issues like cruise ships are, we would probably never stay at a hotel again.🍸

[lextrvlr]

Sorry Dauntless, I certainly did not mean to offend. Though on many cruises, you are right, I have not yet experienced Viking Ocean. I am looking forward to doing so. My comment with regard to the World Cafe is based on having read that lunch is not served in the Restaurant when the ship is in port. If the other venues you mentioned don't turn glassware upside down on tables or placemats, GREAT. Doing this in any venue, anywhere, is still just wrong.

[lackcreativity]

11 minutes ago, Richard2 said:

Let's keep things in perspective. My negative reactions to the World Cafe are more a matter of finding the placemats to be unpleasant rather than a concern about norovirus. We eat in the World Cafe most of the time, preferring the simpler, shorter meals to those in the Dining Room. In about 60 days on board - virtually all breakfasts, and 90% of our lunches and dinners, we have never had a digestive problem. VO does not appear to have any unusual record of norovirus outbreaks. Since Jan 1, 2018, the CDC reports three outbreaks on VO ships, each involving about 4% of the passengers. They do a good job of containing the outbreaks, as no ship has had two outbreaks in a row. In 2018 and 2019, there have also been outbreaks on Crystal, Regent, Silversea, and Oceania, among others.

Richard2, you make some very good points. I will confess that I never gave a second thought to the pre-setting of the tables in the World Cafe until this thread. I wash my hands frequently onboard the ship, and then just go about my day. I usually figure the plane ride over provides enough exposure that there's no sense worrying about things too much.

 

I once got food poisoning on a land based vacation (different issue with the same results), so I understand the desire to avoid that whenever possible. I honestly don't mean to dismiss the concern about clean glasses placed upside down on the placemat. I assume that the idea is to be able to tell "clean" glassware from used ones during the hustle of peak times in the World Cafe. I've seen guests seat themselves at a still dirty table, which does make it more difficult to give a proper cleaning. Crate and Barrel sells the woven vinyl placemats  with Microban antimicrobial treatment, so I'll just pretend that the placemats have magic powers and follow the earlier suggestion to drink wine with all meals.

[cocopico]

I guess we’ve been very fortunate but we haven’t experienced any Norovirus on our five ocean cruises with Viking.  I have observed some questionable table-setting practices in the World Cafe, mostly as a result of passengers “claiming” a table that has yet to be cleaned.  Not an excuse, but I think sometimes the staff are too anxious to turn the table over to impatiently waiting passengers.  I also confess, though, that the “woven” placements are a little scary.  I noticed on our recent cruise on Jupiter, they were even using those same placemats in Manfredi’s, which seemed odd since you would think they would want to use at least the same white tablecloths that they use in The Restaurant.  I can’t say whether this has always been the case, but I seem to remember tablecloths in Manfredi’s on earlier cruises on other Viking ships. 

[ropomo]

If the upside down glasses on the table (the small blue colored plastic ones) are an issue, you can always request one of the tall glasses (actual glass) they use if you order a soda or stop at Aquavit and ask for a glass. They are not keep on the table or out in the public space.  As for the placemat, I agree that I thought it was a bit strange to use the open weave mats on the tables, however again there is a workaround for that.  Simply unroll your napkin, remove silverware and use the napkin to cover the placemat, request a new roll of silverware/napkin.  Yes, an inconvenience, but if it really bothers you and Viking doesn't react to this discussion, its one approach.  This is not intended to defend Viking's practice, only to provide an alternative.

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, ropomo said:

If the upside down glasses on the table (the small blue colored plastic ones) are an issue, you can always request one of the tall glasses (actual glass) they use if you order a soda or stop at Aquavit and ask for a glass. They are not keep on the table or out in the public space.  As for the placemat, I agree that I thought it was a bit strange to use the open weave mats on the tables, however again there is a workaround for that.  Simply unroll your napkin, remove silverware and use the napkin to cover the placemat, request a new roll of silverware/napkin.  Yes, an inconvenience, but if it really bothers you and Viking doesn't react to this discussion, its one approach.  This is not intended to defend Viking's practice, only to provide an alternative.

All good suggestions.

[SLSD]

This is appalling.  We haven't taken a Viking Ocean cruise yet, but this kind of report makes it less likely that we ever will.  I am following this thread and I am most interested in knowing if Viking management ever responds more fully to this issue.  

[Ready to Sail!]

Placemats gone this morning. Glasses and cups were brought after we sat down.  I watched a few rotations and seemed that servers were not the ones cleaning the tables from what I observed.   We sat near the corner last night and kept hearing the word “sanitation” from the staff in the bar area.  There was also an officer roaming around watching. 

 

 

[lextrvlr]

3 hours ago, Ready to Sail! said:

Placemats gone this morning. Glasses and cups were brought after we sat down.  I watched a few rotations and seemed that servers were not the ones cleaning the tables from what I observed.   We sat near the corner last night and kept hearing the word “sanitation” from the staff in the bar area.  There was also an officer roaming around watching. 

 

 

Thanks Ready to Sail. If this has become SOP on all their ships, kudos to Viking. This quick action to remedy a bad situation validates all the accolades bestowed on this company.

[SargassoPirate]

2 hours ago, lextrvlr said:

Thanks Ready to Sail. If this has become SOP on all their ships, kudos to Viking. This quick action to remedy a bad situation validates all the accolades bestowed on this company.

Docked next to the Jupiter today. According to PAX from that ship that we ran into in a coffee shop, they are still pre-setting the tables. I overheard two crew members talking this morning at breakfast and they were discussing that there were either 14 or 40 cases and that we would remain under special procedures for the rest of the voyage. That info is unconfirmed.

 

Personally, I would rather the special procedures continue rather than seeing tables pre-set and shoddy sanitation.  Maybe it will take another incident or two before corporate gets the message

 

[Richard2]

6 hours ago, Ready to Sail! said:

Placemats gone this morning. Glasses and cups were brought after we sat down.  I watched a few rotations and seemed that servers were not the ones cleaning the tables from what I observed.   We sat near the corner last night and kept hearing the word “sanitation” from the staff in the bar area.  There was also an officer roaming around watching. 

 

 

There are two possible explanations.

I don't think the original poster, SargassoPirate, has indicated what cruise they are on. If Ready to Sail is on the same cruise, it could be, as SargassoPirate reported, because there has been a complaint to the Restaurant Manager and there appears to be a norovirus outbreak. These changes could be on one ship only and could be temporary. Given the intensity of what Ready to Sail is describing, I expect this is the explanation.  However, in one sense, this explanation would be very disappointing. I would mean that VO recognizes that their standard approach to glasses and placemats is less sanitary than what they should be doing regularly. 

Alternatively, this thread has already resulted in a policy change. That would be remarkable.

It would be great to hear from others currently on board different ships.

[GeezerCouple]

2 hours ago, lextrvlr said:

Thanks Ready to Sail. If this has become SOP on all their ships, kudos to Viking. This quick action to remedy a bad situation validates all the accolades bestowed on this company.

 

Yes, this responsiveness would be mighty impressive!

 

GC

[Ready to Sail!]

 We are on the Star. I felt by SaraggosPirates timeline that we are on same ship. Maybe not. None the less, after reading her initial post yesterday morning I have noticed a change in the WC. Also have been getting printouts and verbal notices regarding some virus cases on the Star and hand washing on entering the WC is mandatory.  Also, no longer self serve.  We are in port with the Juniper today. Wish I had asked a few of their passengers if this is an issue for them.  Will tomorrow as we will be with them again. 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Ready to Sail!

[Dauntless]

On 4/7/2019 at 7:25 AM, lextrvlr said:

 Evidently, one is almost forced to dine in the World Cafe when the Restaurant is closed. 

 

This is certainly not a true statement.  You can go the whole cruise without eating in world Cafe.  Since you haven't been on the cruise yet it's not a good idea to paint pictures with broad strokes.  The only time the restaurant isn't open, on some days is lunch.  Other venues are available on the ship.  Most do the World Cafe  at breakfast but the restaurant and Mamsen's are open.  For lunch, if the restaurant is not open, there is still Mamsen's and the pool grill and in the evening, there are many choices.  The deli at the Viking Bar on Deck one also has something to get you through if you don't like the normal offerings, or room service.

[Silkroad]

18 hours ago, Rawmac said:

As VO is relatively inexperienced in Noro prevention,  the learning curve has to be made more steep.  It is not a game.  It is unfortunate that Noro usually arises as a result of passengers' habits but has to be dealt with by Viking, at their cost, and responsibility, and often after the fact.

I've been considering a Viking Ocean cruise, so I'm following this thread with great interest. Viking Ocean may be relatively new, but Viking River most certainly is not. If Viking River has excellent sanitary practices, why wouldn't the overarching corporation have transferred those practices to Viking Ocean? Either passengers or crew may contribute to a Norovirus outbreak, and the onus is on both groups to do their bit. When I encounter the table cleaning/setting practices described by the OP at dining venues on land, I avoid those establishments thereafter. As passengers, we can certainly adopt all the improvisations mentioned by other posters to provide ourselves a more sanitary dining experience, but at these prices, why should we need to do so? It's encouraging to read the post that indicates Viking is listening (at least on that ship, for that cruise). Of course, the changes made on that ship may have been made in response to the Noro outbreak, rather than the OP's concerns.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Silkroad

[deec]

 

thankfully none of our group (6) got sick during the World Cruise however we did have at least 2 outbreaks of “something”while onboard....seemed to happen after large groups left the ship for a few days.  And then brought new germs back.   Viking worked hard to contain it.  Removed pillows and blankets from common areas.  When the hacking coughs were rampant Viking implored people to stay out of public areas.  Hacking coughs on long bus rides with poor hygiene was irritating.

 

On our our last cruise the ship had to close the pools, serve in the World Cafe etc. near the end of the cruise.  I blame inconsiderate passengers on this cruise.  I overheard 2 conversations on excursions about how sick someone was but did not want to  miss something ....a little later the woman vomited all over the deck of the excursion boat.  I get that the cruise was $$$ but so inconsiderate to the other passengers.

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, Dauntless said:

 

This is certainly not a true statement.  You can go the whole cruise without eating in world Cafe.  Since you haven't been on the cruise yet it's not a good idea to paint pictures with broad strokes.  The only time the restaurant isn't open, on some days is lunch.  Other venues are available on the ship.  Most do the World Cafe  at breakfast but the restaurant and Mamsen's are open.  For lunch, if the restaurant is not open, there is still Mamsen's and the pool grill and in the evening, there are many choices.  The deli at the Viking Bar on Deck one also has something to get you through if you don't like the normal offerings, or room service.

 

This is good advice, but you could still get sick eating at one of the other venues.  Even if you're careful, you get on a bus and you're behind someone that is sick.  Not much you can do about that.  (Except move if there are empty seats.)

 

It's good if Viking enforces hand washing, but they should do it before an outbreak, not after IMHO.

 

 

[jiminyC_fan]

You do realize that the noro will be all over the ship and not just in the World Cafe, right?    No cruise ship line is free from Noro.   I don't find it "appalling" enough, as mentioned above,  not to sail with them.  They switched things up and addressed it fast.  Now, don't complain that they are not turning the tables over fast enough for the next diners.

[SLSD]

I was appalled by the idea of the open weave placemats with the glasses turned upside down on them.  Of course we realize that bacteria and general germs are everywhere.  It is a bit shocking that they would be setting the tables like this is the first place.  That is the reason for my comment.  

[Richard2]

40 minutes ago, SLSD said:

I was appalled by the idea of the open weave placemats with the glasses turned upside down on them.  Of course we realize that bacteria and general germs are everywhere.  It is a bit shocking that they would be setting the tables like this is the first place.  That is the reason for my comment.  

This is my primary concern as well. We are opening doors, pushing elevator buttons, using handrails and armrests everywhere. It is not a matter of a germ phobia. I don't consider the issues in the World Cafe to center on transmission of norovirus. It is about basic expectations of cleanliness in a restaurant.

[orchestrapal]

6 hours ago, jiminyC_fan said:

You do realize that the noro will be all over the ship and not just in the World Cafe, right?    No cruise ship line is free from Noro.   I don't find it "appalling" enough, as mentioned above,  not to sail with them.  They switched things up and addressed it fast.  Now, don't complain that they are not turning the tables over fast enough for the next diners.

There are hundreds of restaurants all over the world that use the same type of placemats. 

We found the World  Cafe to be extremely clean and the staff working

very hard to keep it that way.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by orchestrapal

[Paulchili]

13 minutes ago, orchestrapal said:

There are hundreds of restaurants all over the world that use the same type of placemats. 

The placemats are just a part of the problem.

The way I see it is that the main issue is that the placemats are not properly cleaned between each user AND the glasses are placed upside down on them. There is no good reason why a clean glass should not be placed upright so that the drinking surface of the glass is not placed on the unclean placemat.

Also, while " hundreds of restaurants all over the world that use the same type of placemats", the question is how they are cleaned between each user in these restaurants vs VO.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Paulchili