News -HA may be banned from accessing US ports

[tonyinoc]

Today's news from judge in maimi

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article229069589.html

[Fouremco]

Yikes. While I doubt that Carnival Corp ships will be banned because of the economic impact on far more than the corporation itself, the underlying issues really make me shake my head. To say the least, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thank you for the link to the article.

 

I can't see the judge not allowing Carnival Corporation ships not to dock in US ports. 

 

Think about all the revenue the US will lose.

[Sir PMP]

I hope the judge will go ahead and ban Carnival for life from U.S ports, well deserved...

[canadianbear]

May be a good time to watch CCL stocks for those that don’t have them. 

[BarbinMich]

Interesting, disturbing and disappointing news about CCL.  We've sailed a lot on Princess and HAL.  My DH owns CCL stock so I just looked at the chart and it took a 10% dip a few weeks ago (around 3/26).  It was around 56-57 early in March, went down to about 50, but is now at 52.  So not much of a reaction at the moment.

[Hawaiidan]

1 hour ago, Sir PMP said:

I hope the judge will go ahead and ban Carnival for life from U.S ports, well deserved...

Carnival ships  presently have an  exclusive permit  to visit Glacier bay NP and Preserve. granted by the NPS at their sole discretion .    The 2019 permits are  granted.    THe NPS  takes very seriously pollution to its parks... Majot companies like the Curry company in Yosemite, have lost permission to conduct business in NPS parks.       In 2020  it may be that ALL Carnival permits may be withdrawn and issued to  others.   I would suspect other lines will be applying in that possible event.   Fines do not effect  CCL....   They may get whacked.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

Carnival ships  presently have an  exclusive permit  to visit Glacier bay NP and Preserve. granted by the NPS at their sole discretion .    The 2019 permits are  granted.    THe NPS  takes very seriously pollution to its parks... Majot companies like the Curry company in Yosemite, have lost permission to conduct business in NPS parks.       In 2020  it may be that ALL Carnival permits may be withdrawn and issued to  others.   I would suspect other lines will be applying in that possible event.   Fines do not effect  CCL....   They may get whacked.

Couple issues with this post. First, Carnival's permit is definitely not exclusive. Other cruise lines get to go into Glacier Bay, and more can in accordance with the thread mentioned below.

Second, per this thread:

 

 The permit allocations for the next 10 years have been made...after some of the issues mentioned in this legal action occurred. Not sure they could be pulled so abruptly as you suggest...as schedules are already out for 2020.

[jhannah]

An equally grave problem for many of us could be the devaluation of CCL stock! That could come sooner rather than later. I really hate that Westerdam has been implicated specifically.

Edited April 11, 2019 by jhannah

[catl331]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

Carnival ships  presently have an  exclusive permit  to visit Glacier bay NP and Preserve

NCL has ships going there this year

[Fouremco]

15 minutes ago, jhannah said:

I really hate that Westerdam has been implicated specifically.

Why? It's just one of several ships cited. 

[VennDiagram]

18 minutes ago, jhannah said:

An equally grave problem for many of us could be the devaluation of CCL stock! That could come sooner rather than later. I really hate that Westerdam has been implicated specifically.

 

It may be a buying opportunity.  I'm watching ....

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, jhannah said:

An equally grave problem for many of us could be the devaluation of CCL stock! That could come sooner rather than later. I really hate that Westerdam has been implicated specifically.

 

 

I have a feeling that 2nd engineer is looking for a new employer! Stupid is as stupid does!

[canadianbear]

50 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

I have a feeling that 2nd engineer is looking for a new employer! Stupid is as stupid does!

Yup!

[cruisemom42]

I remember the news when Princess was originally caught. It was very disheartening to say the least to read about the violations. Now it seems it is no anomaly but involves Carnival (the line not the Corp) and HAL as well. 

 

I wonder if it is only Carnival Corp or if the "other" biggie just hasn't been caught. 

 

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, catl331 said:

NCL has ships going there this year

Yes  NCL and Carnival had the 2 permits the NPS annualy grants.....Now there be an option.    Being excluded from would hurt and punish CCL far more than a crummy 40Mil.

[PRPLE]

Seriously watching this as it might affect our Alaska cruise this year.... 

 

you would think the judge would look at the overall economic impact on the states and the ports... 

 

one thing saying about banning from US ports is that it makes headlines and grabs everyone’s attention 

 

following and hoping ....

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Couple issues with this post. First, Carnival's permit is definitely not exclusive. Other cruise lines get to go into Glacier Bay, and more can in accordance with the thread mentioned below.

Second, per this thread:

 

 The permit allocations for the next 10 years have been made...after some of the issues mentioned in this legal action occurred. Not sure they could be pulled so abruptly as you suggest...as schedules are already out for 2020.

It used to be  that only 2 ships were allowed,,, rather lines...NCL  and Carnival  when I  last had a relation with the NPS... With the current legal problems... a review might be ordered by DOJ,  and AG     Carnival  may be in breach of  the contract award.

Thats my take  I spent 10 years with NPS in  the region

 

[SilvertoGold]

14 minutes ago, PRPLE said:

 

you would think the judge would look at the overall economic impact on the states and the ports... 

 

one thing saying about banning from US ports is that it makes headlines and grabs everyone’s attention 

 

following and hoping ....

 

Actually banning would cost the cruise lines, the supply people, individual businesses a lot and that is what should be presented to the judge:  the big picture and how it relates to the economy in general.

 

Throwing the CEOs into jail might change the industry standard about pollution but I suspect not much else would, as a $40 M fine didn't seem to have any effect. 

 

My question:  is head office telling the ships to just keep on doing what they do, or are individuals on the ships that unaware of the probation order and the whole predicament?  The business about trying to get the Coast Guard intervening would seem to be the Corporate Office.

 

 

[VennDiagram]

1 minute ago, SilvertoGold said:

are individuals on the ships that unaware of the probation order and the whole predicament? 

 

We've recently seen multiple examples of HAL's poor external communications.  I hate to think that  their internal communications are similar but I guess it could be possible 😞  

[FredT]

Makes you wonder if this is not simply a far left leaning "activist" judge...   Anything that would be THIS far reaching would quickly go from her bench to a court of appeals, and possibly further before anything could "physically" happen (And THAT could take years!)

[Copper10-8]

45 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

It used to be  that only 2 ships were allowed,,, rather lines...NCL  and Carnival  when I  last had a relation with the NPS... With the current legal problems... a review might be ordered by DOJ,  and AG     Carnival  may be in breach of  the contract award.

Thats my take  I spent 10 years with NPS in  the region

 

 

 

 

[rkacruiser]

The moderators may choose to delete this post, but this is my opinion.

 

A certain National CEO "threatens":  "I'm going to close the Border."  Days later:  "I'm going to give Mexico another year."  Politically, have we not seen this before in the past two years?

 

Now, a Federal Judge is issuing what I read as a "threat" just as the "big man" in a certain house in the District of Columbia routinely does.  

 

Do I approve of pollution of pristine waters?  Of course not!  Has the situation improved from what I first witnessed as a guest on Rotterdam V sailing from New York in 1970?  Yes!  I witnessed crew members bringing bags of trash to the stern of that ship and throwing them overboard into the Atlantic Ocean.  Is there need for more corrective action on the part of all cruise lines to protect our Oceans?  Probably so.  

 

Humans make mistakes in their daily discharge of their duties.  Mechanical systems can fail.  

 

I have met several Environmental Officers during Behind the Scenes Tours on the ships of Holland America Line and Carnival Cruises.  Their "heart" is in their work.  

 

I do consider the issue is important.  I don't consider the potential "threat" of the Judge against Carnival Corporation et al that some are rightly concerned to be of any "threat" to the continued operation of the vessels of Carnival Corporation to and within Alaskan waters.

 

 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I agree with rkacruiser that this seems more a threat than something that will ever come to fruition. Not only would this ban effectively cancel at least 80-90% of Carnival Corp sailings, it would have a catastrophic negative economic impact on hundreds of domestic and international ports and all that rely on Carnival Corp vessels to bring them business.  It could force many into bankruptcy, liquidation and even homelessness as they depend so heavily on the cruise industry for their livelihood.

[VennDiagram]

8 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

Federal Judge is issuing what I read as a "threat"

 

You may be right.