Main Dining Room Attire

[KroozNut]

On 4/20/2019 at 11:11 AM, ScottC4746 said:

The main point of my original post was "The main point was people were enjoying the cruise."  I didn't expect it to blow up.  Sorry about that.

 

But you should have known it would blow up, these threads ALWAYS do. What is 'appropriate' attire in the MDR is one of the most hotly debated topics in these forums.

[slidergirl]

3 hours ago, OhioLair said:

I am going out on a limb here.  Dressing "properly" IS important, it is an extension of being polite.  It tells others that you respect them AND yourself.  So many people, especially Americans, think they can just show up dressed however they want.  Call it what you want (lazy comes to mind), but my mama told me two things about this topic, when in Rome, do as the Romans, and it is rude to do otherwise.  Personally, you want to show up in jeans and tennis shoes to a "formal or dressy casual" event, go ahead.  I won't be the one who is embarrassed or feel out of place.  But don't deride those who took the effort, (and yes, even the extra piece of luggage sometimes) in order to dress appropriately.  I can attest, however, that one can travel for weeks on end with nothing more than a 22inch roll-aboard bag and tote, and STILL dress appropriately.  

Sigh.  Again???

 

You do know there is some clothing in between formal wear and jeans and tennis shoes, right?    HAL has determined that "appropriate dress" on gala night for men is pants and a collared shirt.   Why do people always say "dress appropriately" or "make the effort"  when the vast majority of cruisers are dressing to the HAL suggested guidelines?   Someone who wears pants and a collared shirt is now "lazy"???  

 

I'd rather dress as the majority does than "take the effort" and overdress and have the majority of people stare and wonder where the Prom is...

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Similarly, don't deride those who meet but don't exceed HAL's dress code. They too are dressing appropriately.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  When I said dressing appropriately, I did mean in accordance with the dress code.  Although, if given a choice, I'd rather see people exceed it than fall short of it.  

[Fouremco]

52 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  When I said dressing appropriately, I did mean in accordance with the dress code.  Although, if given a choice, I'd rather see people exceed it than fall short of it.  

Your post was fine, and we are both on the same page. 👌

[slidergirl]

6 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  When I said dressing appropriately, I did mean in accordance with the dress code.  Although, if given a choice, I'd rather see people exceed it than fall short of it.  

No you were fine.  It's the "make the effort", either gala or jeans & sneakers that rubbed me the wrong way.  Chinos and a golf shirt is fine with me on any man in the MDR any night of the week. 😉

[OhioLair]

20 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Similarly, don't deride those who meet but don't exceed HAL's dress code. They too are dressing appropriately.

touche!  This forum seems to be a hot bed of emotion LOL. . . . People, it really doesn't matter. Dress up, dress down, dress ot the nines, come looking like a slob. . . . . As long as you meet the "minimum guidelines" you're ok.  If it doesn't matter to you, well, nothing I can say (or anyone could say) would change that and you'd probably show up more casually dressed just to prove the point.  LOL.  Happy sailing!  

[terrydtx]

19 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Why do people always say "dress appropriately" or "make the effort"  when the vast majority of cruisers are dressing to the HAL suggested guidelines?   Someone who wears pants and a collared shirt is now "lazy"???

I agree with you, but there are way too many in this forum who want to go back to the old days of cruising and will,  no matter what, consider just meeting the minimum dress code as an act of being lazy or a slob.

Edited May 6, 2019 by terrydtx

[OhioLair]

11 hours ago, slidergirl said:

No you were fine.  It's the "make the effort", either gala or jeans & sneakers that rubbed me the wrong way.  Chinos and a golf shirt is fine with me on any man in the MDR any night of the week. 😉

True, a majority of people don't have a reason to ever get "dressed up".  They don't have the opportunity or desire to attend events where a dinner jacket or tux (for men) is appropriate.  It does, however, take effort to put on formal clothing, time and space in the bag, and the desire to do that, so not "making the effort" is a valid phrase to use for those that choose more casual attire.  As I said earlier People, it doesn't really matter.  Dress as you deem is appropriate for yourself.  It is YOUR holiday after all.

Happy Sailing!

[OhioLair]

6 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I agree with you, but there are way too many in this forum who want to go back to the old days of cruising and will,  no matter what, consider just meeting the minimum dress code as a act of being lazy or a slob.

SO well put Texas, so well said!  I won't speak for the majority, but I agree!

Edited May 6, 2019 by OhioLair

[OhioLair]

HAL "suggests attire for most evenings is resort casual; slacks and collared shirts for men, and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening-wear for women. On gala nights women usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and men wear a jacket and tie, dark suit, or tuxedo."   

Ok, HAL wants you to have a good time and relaxed the dress code years ago in order to remain competitive in the market.  Time are changing and passengers expectations are changing, thus we now have "GALA" nights aboard the DAM ships.  I have been wearing jackets and ties for 35+ years, so for me it is not a big deal.  It may be a big deal for you, so go for the more casual alternative.  However, GALA nights as stated above (and copied from the HAL site) suggests a minimum of Jacket and tie on those evenings.  But I liked iancal's response, just don't go to the MDR those nights if you cannot or do not wish to meet the MINIMUM guidelines, there are lots of other venues for dinner.  Besides people, they are JUST cloths.  If you are dressed casually, I will certainly laugh with you and enjoy the evening just as much as if you were decked out to the nines.   Just don't feel threatened by those who chose to honor the tradition.  It is a PERSONAL preference, and you may not have the background to have attended events where dressing formally is expected, are uncomfortable with it or as iancal said, are just over it.  Hooray!  RELAX! Go have a good cruise!  Have fun, dress up or not.  It is really a moot point.  

[slidergirl]

7 minutes ago, OhioLair said:

HAL "suggests attire for most evenings is resort casual; slacks and collared shirts for men, and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening-wear for women. On gala nights women usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and men wear a jacket and tie, dark suit, or tuxedo."   

Ok, HAL wants you to have a good time and relaxed the dress code years ago in order to remain competitive in the market.  Time are changing and passengers expectations are changing, thus we now have "GALA" nights aboard the DAM ships.  I have been wearing jackets and ties for 35+ years, so for me it is not a big deal.  It may be a big deal for you, so go for the more casual alternative.  However, GALA nights as stated above (and copied from the HAL site) suggests a minimum of Jacket and tie on those evenings.  But I liked iancal's response, just don't go to the MDR those nights if you cannot or do not wish to meet the MINIMUM guidelines, there are lots of other venues for dinner.  Besides people, they are JUST cloths.  If you are dressed casually, I will certainly laugh with you and enjoy the evening just as much as if you were decked out to the nines.   Just don't feel threatened by those who chose to honor the tradition.  It is a PERSONAL preference, and you may not have the background to have attended events where dressing formally is expected, are uncomfortable with it or as iancal said, are just over it.  Hooray!  RELAX! Go have a good cruise!  Have fun, dress up or not.  It is really a moot point.  

 

Pulled just now from the "KNOW BEFORE YOU GO" document on the HAL website:

 

"

CLOTHING

Most evenings smart casual attire is appropriate. Shorts, pool/ beachwear, distressed jeans and men’s tank tops are best left to the daytime and are not permitted in fine dining restaurants. Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising as guests dress to impress for special events on board, including a five-course gourmet dinner in the Dining Room. On Gala Nights in fine dining restaurants, collared shirts and slacks are required for gentlemen. For ladies, elegant dresses, skirts, or slacks are all acceptable. Jeans, shorts and T-shirts are only allowed in the casual dining restaurants

 

So, HAL does NOT ask for more than collared shirts and slacks for men in the document.  

[RoyalVisit]

To meet the suggested dress of a collared shirt and trousers for men...I wear this style...my tux, suits and sport jackets are staying home - they didn't earn or pay for this vacation 🤣 

 

I tend to find the A/C a little chilly so I add the sweater for comfort.

 

 

[terrydtx]

22 minutes ago, OhioLair said:

On gala nights women usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and men wear a jacket and tie, dark suit, or tuxedo."  

The operative word here is "Usually" there is nothing about this being the minimally accepted attire for Gala nights. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, OhioLair said:

HAL "suggests attire for most evenings is resort casual; slacks and collared shirts for men, and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening-wear for women. On gala nights women usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and men wear a jacket and tie, dark suit, or tuxedo."   

Ok, HAL wants you to have a good time and relaxed the dress code years ago in order to remain competitive in the market.  Time are changing and passengers expectations are changing, thus we now have "GALA" nights aboard the DAM ships.  I have been wearing jackets and ties for 35+ years, so for me it is not a big deal.  It may be a big deal for you, so go for the more casual alternative.  However, GALA nights as stated above (and copied from the HAL site) suggests a minimum of Jacket and tie on those evenings.  But I liked iancal's response, just don't go to the MDR those nights if you cannot or do not wish to meet the MINIMUM guidelines, there are lots of other venues for dinner.  Besides people, they are JUST cloths.  If you are dressed casually, I will certainly laugh with you and enjoy the evening just as much as if you were decked out to the nines.   Just don't feel threatened by those who chose to honor the tradition.  It is a PERSONAL preference, and you may not have the background to have attended events where dressing formally is expected, are uncomfortable with it or as iancal said, are just over it.  Hooray!  RELAX! Go have a good cruise!  Have fun, dress up or not.  It is really a moot point.  

 

 

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

 

Pulled just now from the "KNOW BEFORE YOU GO" document on the HAL website:

 

"

CLOTHING

Most evenings smart casual attire is appropriate. Shorts, pool/ beachwear, distressed jeans and men’s tank tops are best left to the daytime and are not permitted in fine dining restaurants. Gala Nights evoke the grand traditions of cruising as guests dress to impress for special events on board, including a five-course gourmet dinner in the Dining Room. On Gala Nights in fine dining restaurants, collared shirts and slacks are required for gentlemen. For ladies, elegant dresses, skirts, or slacks are all acceptable. Jeans, shorts and T-shirts are only allowed in the casual dining restaurants

 

So, HAL does NOT ask for more than collared shirts and slacks for men in the document.  

 

So we have two different versions (from HAL) of what Gala night is supposed to be. What HAL says people "usually" wear is wishful thinking. "Usually" implies that most people are in cocktail or formal wear. And the silly line "dress to impress" can be taken to mean cocktail or formal wear--if that's what you want it to mean. I think all of this verbiage is an attempt to mollify people who want a true formal night. But then you get on board and this expectation doesn't come true.

 

Real formal nights where everyone follows the dress code are part of what makes Cunard special. I love formal nights on Cunard. But I don't expect that on HAL. HAL can say "usually...suit or tuxedo..." and "dress to impress," but the reality is that there is little that is formal or "gala" about HAL's gala nights. 

 

As slidergirl pointed out, all HAL is asking for is collared shirt and slacks for men. I don't think that evokes any grand tradition of cruising, and it doesn't impress me. If that's the sartorial bar HAL wants to set, that's fine with me. Their ship, their rules. Maybe HAL should just give up the pretense of gala night and go smart casual every night. 

 

[KroozNut]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

 

 

Maybe HAL should just give up the pretense of gala night and go smart casual every night. 

 

For all practical purposes, they already have.

[terrydtx]

12 minutes ago, KroozNut said:

For all practical purposes, they already have.

Exactly right, the same suggested dress for Gala nights as for other nights just less the mention of "Jeans" for Gala night.

[ScottieM]

It's enjoyable watching the heads explode as people navigate through the minefield of what is appropriate attire.

I've read these threads before, although this is my first post to CC, so bear with me.

 

My wife and I will be sailing with HAL out of Venice on May 27th. (our 3rd cruise - rookies it seems).

 

I will, on the 2 "formal nights" be attired in my kilt and jacket, I as do for any formal occasion.  On alternative evenings, I will be in either a suit or a sports jacket and dress pants (maybe dropping the tie on a whim) 🙂

 

On our first cruise in the Baltic in 2002, the most memorable part of the gala evening, was a long conversation I had with a bunch of Spanish teens (not formally dressed) about what one would wear under a kilt.  On that evening the dress was about 60/40, as one would expect almost 20 years ago, for men in formal-wear vs suits.  On our second cruise to Hawaii, there sprouted a third version of attire; there were likely 20-25% with no jacket, about 40-50% in jackets and pants and about 25-30% in formal-wear (incl. dark suit w/ tie).  I fully expect that there will be a continuing number of people who will lighten there suitcase and forgo the ever-increasing baggage fees ($100/bag on our upcoming trip if we choose), and not bring so much "stuff" on vacation.

 

All that to say, I have no objection to others wearing whatever they want, within the guidelines ( i.e no beachwear etc.).  We've seen what lots of people wear to other formal occasions (weddings, funerals, etc.) and generally speaking, we're on a trend to more casual attire everywhere - just an observation.

 

I'm 55 and the have always erred on the side of being overdressed, whether in the office or on vacation.  When we're in the Caribbean, I wear dress pants and a collared shirt every night, although the majority don't...and I could care less...to each his (or her) own - as long as I can enjoy the evening with my wife, meet some people, and dance a bit.

 

Lastly, I will miss it if they go with a completely casual approach to attire, although its very likely, I would still "dress for dinner".

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, KroozNut said:

For all practical purposes, they already have.

 

So they should stop pretending they haven't.

[BlerkOne]

 

I see per the FAQ on Holland America's site:

 

Q: Are jeans allowed?

A: Jeans without holes, tears or embroidery are welcome on most evenings in all restaurants, but on Gala Nights jeans are only allowed in the casual dining restaurants.

 

[ithaca gal]

10 hours ago, OhioLair said:

touche!  This forum seems to be a hot bed of emotion LOL. . . . People, it really doesn't matter. Dress up, dress down, dress ot the nines, come looking like a slob. . . . . As long as you meet the "minimum guidelines" you're ok.  If it doesn't matter to you, well, nothing I can say (or anyone could say) would change that and you'd probably show up more casually dressed just to prove the point.  LOL.  Happy sailing!  

Wow.  This sums it up!

 

[OhioLair]

20 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

 

 

So we have two different versions (from HAL) of what Gala night is supposed to be. What HAL says people "usually" wear is wishful thinking. "Usually" implies that most people are in cocktail or formal wear. And the silly line "dress to impress" can be taken to mean cocktail or formal wear--if that's what you want it to mean. I think all of this verbiage is an attempt to mollify people who want a true formal night. But then you get on board and this expectation doesn't come true.

 

Real formal nights where everyone follows the dress code are part of what makes Cunard special. I love formal nights on Cunard. But I don't expect that on HAL. HAL can say "usually...suit or tuxedo..." and "dress to impress," but the reality is that there is little that is formal or "gala" about HAL's gala nights. 

 

As slidergirl pointed out, all HAL is asking for is collared shirt and slacks for men. I don't think that evokes any grand tradition of cruising, and it doesn't impress me. If that's the sartorial bar HAL wants to set, that's fine with me. Their ship, their rules. Maybe HAL should just give up the pretense of gala night and go smart casual every night. 

 

I too appreciate Cunard's standards, and it is quite special, even spectacular.  And true, HAL has lowered it standards about GALA nights.  They were more . . . . "special" when we first started cruising (and were not called GALA nights).   So 3rd gen, why the double standard?  Cunard vs HAL dress code?  Is it because Cunard has fewer ships and is not trying to appeal to a mass market where pandering to the lowest common denominator to  fills cabins?  

[OhioLair]

17 hours ago, ScottieM said:

It's enjoyable watching the heads explode as people navigate through the minefield of what is appropriate attire.

I've read these threads before, although this is my first post to CC, so bear with me.

 

My wife and I will be sailing with HAL out of Venice on May 27th. (our 3rd cruise - rookies it seems).

 

I will, on the 2 "formal nights" be attired in my kilt and jacket, I as do for any formal occasion.  On alternative evenings, I will be in either a suit or a sports jacket and dress pants (maybe dropping the tie on a whim) 🙂

 

On our first cruise in the Baltic in 2002, the most memorable part of the gala evening, was a long conversation I had with a bunch of Spanish teens (not formally dressed) about what one would wear under a kilt.  On that evening the dress was about 60/40, as one would expect almost 20 years ago, for men in formal-wear vs suits.  On our second cruise to Hawaii, there sprouted a third version of attire; there were likely 20-25% with no jacket, about 40-50% in jackets and pants and about 25-30% in formal-wear (incl. dark suit w/ tie).  I fully expect that there will be a continuing number of people who will lighten there suitcase and forgo the ever-increasing baggage fees ($100/bag on our upcoming trip if we choose), and not bring so much "stuff" on vacation.

 

All that to say, I have no objection to others wearing whatever they want, within the guidelines ( i.e no beachwear etc.).  We've seen what lots of people wear to other formal occasions (weddings, funerals, etc.) and generally speaking, we're on a trend to more casual attire everywhere - just an observation.

 

I'm 55 and the have always erred on the side of being overdressed, whether in the office or on vacation.  When we're in the Caribbean, I wear dress pants and a collared shirt every night, although the majority don't...and I could care less...to each his (or her) own - as long as I can enjoy the evening with my wife, meet some people, and dance a bit.

 

Lastly, I will miss it if they go with a completely casual approach to attire, although its very likely, I would still "dress for dinner".

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, OhioLair said:

I too appreciate Cunard's standards, and it is quite special, even spectacular.  And true, HAL has lowered it standards about GALA nights.  They were more . . . . "special" when we first started cruising (and were not called GALA nights).   So 3rd gen, why the double standard?  Cunard vs HAL dress code?  Is it because Cunard has fewer ships and is not trying to appeal to a mass market where pandering to the lowest common denominator to  fills cabins?  

 

Not sure what you mean by double standard. If you mean because they're two parts of Carnival Corp, each line has always been allowed to make its own rules about dress.

 

I think Cunard's situation is that there are fewer ships and just enough of us eager (or at least willing) to do the formal nights, that they can still require it. It's possible that being in Europe more than the US is part of it. And possibly longer cruises attract "veteran" cruisers who still appreciate dressing for dinner. For QM2, all those transatlantics mean sea days--plenty of time to "primp" for dinner, so why not? Formal nights are part of Cunard's identity. Cunard also gives passengers special things to do on formal nights. There's a bunch of captain's parties for all passengers (split so not everyone goes to the same one). Then there's a party for World Club, and then a party for platinum and diamond World Club. If you're going to go to a reception with officers in full formal dress, you want to meet that standard. (Or at least, Cunard passengers do.) Cunard captains often include a compliment on how good everyone looks when they do their remarks at the parties. 

 

HAL has so many more ships, especially based in the US, that they can't require more than the "smart casual" if they expect to sell cabins. Even when they had formal nights, enforcement at the dining room varied, so you never knew if dressing "under" the dress code would get you turned away. So many people weren't following the dress code that HAL gave in and went to the vague "gala nights." There's nothing "gala" outside the MDR on HAL. Sometimes a reception for NS and PS, but nothing that a lot of people are attending. I think the "captain's toast" in the showroom is gone now. I do dress above the "casual" code of HAL's Gala nights, but not in an evening gown. Alas, my "posh frocks" only sail on Cunard these days.

 

[slidergirl]

20 hours ago, ScottieM said:

It's enjoyable watching the heads explode as people navigate through the minefield of what is appropriate attire.

I've read these threads before, although this is my first post to CC, so bear with me.

 

My wife and I will be sailing with HAL out of Venice on May 27th. (our 3rd cruise - rookies it seems).

 

I will, on the 2 "formal nights" be attired in my kilt and jacket, I as do for any formal occasion.  On alternative evenings, I will be in either a suit or a sports jacket and dress pants (maybe dropping the tie on a whim) 🙂

 

On our first cruise in the Baltic in 2002, the most memorable part of the gala evening, was a long conversation I had with a bunch of Spanish teens (not formally dressed) about what one would wear under a kilt.  On that evening the dress was about 60/40, as one would expect almost 20 years ago, for men in formal-wear vs suits.  On our second cruise to Hawaii, there sprouted a third version of attire; there were likely 20-25% with no jacket, about 40-50% in jackets and pants and about 25-30% in formal-wear (incl. dark suit w/ tie).  I fully expect that there will be a continuing number of people who will lighten there suitcase and forgo the ever-increasing baggage fees ($100/bag on our upcoming trip if we choose), and not bring so much "stuff" on vacation.

 

All that to say, I have no objection to others wearing whatever they want, within the guidelines ( i.e no beachwear etc.).  We've seen what lots of people wear to other formal occasions (weddings, funerals, etc.) and generally speaking, we're on a trend to more casual attire everywhere - just an observation.

 

I'm 55 and the have always erred on the side of being overdressed, whether in the office or on vacation.  When we're in the Caribbean, I wear dress pants and a collared shirt every night, although the majority don't...and I could care less...to each his (or her) own - as long as I can enjoy the evening with my wife, meet some people, and dance a bit.

 

Lastly, I will miss it if they go with a completely casual approach to attire, although its very likely, I would still "dress for dinner".

I like a man in a well-fitting kilt!  If that is what you want to wear on the Gala nights and you won't mind being in the minority, go for it!    I'm 65 and have always been a rebel.  Fought my school's "dress and skirt only" rules for girls in the 70s.  I always found a way to do something out of the standard with my work clothes.  I'm just not a conformist, I guess.  As long as there is leeway in dress suggestion, not just a "thou must weareth a tux or gown only on dress up night", I'm OK.  Just don't try to box me in 😉

 

[ScottieM]

Well put.  Its seems I may become a non-conformist by default