No more cruises to Cuba?

[cbb]

per:  https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article229341009.html

 

President Trump's administration has announced new travel restrictions to Cuba today.

 

"Travel to Cuba will now be limited to family visits, restricting those deemed as “veiled tourism,” said a high-ranking official who spoke on condition of anonymity. That could signal the end of cruises, which started to operate during the Obama years because of an expansion of the categories of travel allowed."  

 

[Cruise Junky]

It's certainly looking that way. Will be interesting to see what the News Conference states.

[Paulchili]

I wonder when this will go into effect. Will there be any court challenges to this?

This is truly just a speculation at this point but I wonder how would O handle the already booked (and in some cases paid for) cruises to Cuba only (vs the ones that only visit Havana for a day where they can just cancel/substitute the port of Havana).

Edited April 17, 2019 by Paulchili

[cbb]

paul,

 

same Herald article says " The step was formally announced by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Wednesday morning and scheduled to take effect on May 2 "

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by cbb

[Shawnino]

2 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I wonder when this will go into effect. Will there be any court challenges to this?

This is truly just a speculation at this point but I wonder how would O handle the already booked (and in some cases paid for) cruises to Cuba only (vs the ones that only visit Havana for a day where they can just cancel/substitute the port of Havana).

 

The court challenge question is an interesting one.

While anything anti-administration generally gets a hearing in the Ninth Circuit, I don't understand who would have standing to sue here.

In the past, travel agencies/airlines have not been able to sue State over changes in travel restrictions. I don't see how cruise lines (with or without booked pax) would be different.

[Paulchili]

38 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

In the past, travel agencies/airlines have not been able to sue State over changes in travel restrictions. I don't see how cruise lines (with or without booked pax) would be different.

I am not a lawyer so I would not know the answer to this. But I believe that there would be other business entities effected - some European and Canadian  (and maybe some American like Marriott?) companies that may have standing?

Copied from the statement:

 

In a joint statement following the announcement, Canada and the European Union, whose companies have substantial investments in Cuba, called the measure “regrettable . . . and an “extraterritorial application of unilateral Cuba-related measures contrary to international law.”

Edited April 18, 2019 by Paulchili

[Jancruz]

 This really is terrible for all of us..

Next we will need passports to travel our country..I am angry..(I am rarely angry)

Jancruz1

[BenMurphy]

We don't travel until Christmas, but we had Havana substituted for Grand Cayman. I was really looking forward to Havana ( we've been before 20 years ago) I'm so glad that I left applying for a visa 'till nearer the date.

What on eath are they trying to do ( or blackmail)?

I'm with you Jancruz...........................angry.   

It must be so upsetting for those with travel plans.

 

Jxx

[cbb]

apparently the administration has not decided what the new travel restrictions for US tourists will be.  I imagine Mr FDR is trying to find out.  Perhaps exceptions will be permitted for tourism.

 

'the details of the travel restriction were not clear. There are up to a dozen categories of such travel, and the administration did not say whether they would be prohibited.

“I have spent the day on the telephone with current and former State and executive branch officials and industry and policy experts, and nobody knows what the actual restrictions are,” said Collin Laverty, president of Cuba Educational Travel, which organizes cultural and university trips to Cuba.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/world/americas/cuba-trump-travel-lawsuits.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

 

"(Bolton) provided no details on what he said were new limits on U.S. citizens’ travel there. A Treasury Department official said regulations would be issued “in the coming months.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-announces-new-measures-against-cuba/2019/04/17/cfc2bc96-6132-11e9-9ff2-abc984dc9eec_story.html?utm_term=.99943b4ab6aa

Edited April 18, 2019 by cbb

[Redtravel]

We had looked forward to our stops in Cuba. Sadly, not to be.  In 2021 we will need visa for Europe. What next?  Trump is making it tougher to travel internationally. 

[cbb]

don't be glum.....historically,  administrations have been known to rethink policy based on how much donors have protested....cruise industry and hotel corporations are not going to be happy and their $ talks. 

[Shawnino]

2 minutes ago, cbb said:

don't be glum.....historically,  administrations have been known to rethink policy based on how much donors have protested....cruise industry and hotel corporations are not going to be happy and their $ talks. 

 

Exactly. Port calls to Leningrad and the Sakhalin are way, way up.

[cbb]

Shawnino-

yep, we're going to both ports next year AND I noticed that in the new 2021 itineraries Instanbul is back!

 

 'to everything there is a season' ......

[JPR]

Looks like all cruises to Cuba will have to be suspended. Presumably you could go from Canada, Mexico, and other countries and not have your passport stamped in Cuba.

 

The final straw apparently was Cuba’s sending troops to prop up the failed oppressive Maduro regime and its increasing deadly human rights abuses in Venezuela.

Edited April 18, 2019 by JPR

[RJB]

5 hours ago, JPR said:

Looks like all cruises to Cuba will have to be suspended. Presumably you could go from Canada, Mexico, and other countries and not have your passport stamped in Cuba.

 

The final straw apparently was Cuba’s sending troops to prop up the failed oppressive Maduro regime and its increasing deadly human rights abuses in Venezuela.

Until something changes in Cuba we should not fund their oppressive activities.  We were there in May and were very glad we went.  Wonderful people, but the government has to change their ways.  Hope things clear up soon.  

[Kate-AHF]

I don't have plans to visit Cuba, but that doesn't mean this doesn't really tick me off.  

 

Just speculating... if the ship isn't flagged USA (and I don't know any that are), and the embarkation point was changed to... say.... the BVI's... why couldn't it still happen? (though believe me, I understand a great part of the appeal is sailing out of Florida)

 

 

[ORV]

24 minutes ago, Kate-AHF said:

I don't have plans to visit Cuba, but that doesn't mean this doesn't really tick me off.  

 

Just speculating... if the ship isn't flagged USA (and I don't know any that are), and the embarkation point was changed to... say.... the BVI's... why couldn't it still happen? (though believe me, I understand a great part of the appeal is sailing out of Florida)

 

 

Because they would be carrying US citizens? Don't know, just guessing. 

[RJB]

Time to shut them all down.  Just read that the Cuban Government has forced most or all of the private tour companies to shut down  We need to show them we will not take this behavior any more.  All the people out of work that were the backbone of the guide business  in Havana.  Has to stop and we should be the one's to do it. 

[HokiePoq]

We are on the Sirena in February.   Will lose the airfare (that part not insured) to Miami.   Forced to fly as no hotel would honor a park and cruise reservation due to the Super Bowl.     

I am not a happy camper.    

That is putting it mildly.   

[JPR]

I second RJB’s comment. We were in Cuba on Sirena last October. The poverty outside of (and even in parts of) Havana, and particularly in Santiago, is truly shocking. Our guide’s college class had 32 members; all but two have left the country because there is no future for them. (Our guide and his wife make good money from tourists, but they have been detained out of the blue for no reason on more than one occasion).

 

As a non-government Cuban, you get what you pay for with the vaunted “free Cuban healthcare”. The doctors are not really all that well trained and get paid almost nothing; worse yet, they are effectively sold like chattel to Venezuela and other nations in Cuba’s increasingly limited orbit, with their families in Cuba held hostage to deter defection. Bring your own sheets and light bulbs to the hospital, and get tests with antiquated obsolete equipment. 

 

There is a a thriving arts community but even they are under increasing oppression. There is no reason to treat Cuba any differently than North Korea.

And please no “Why not China and Russia too?” Those regimes have serious human rights issues too, but there is no comparison today.

[oceanbill457]

It is ironic that we treat Cuba a a pariah yet we encourage travel ( ie) cruises to Vietnam. I do recall over 58,000 Americans were killed  there.

[Paulchili]

30 minutes ago, JPR said:

“Why not China and Russia too?”

Legitimate question.

In many ways the governments of those countries are just as oppressive (if not more so) as that of Cuba. They just seem to be a little more prosperous due to many reasons - among them abundant natural and human resources (natural gas, oil, etc).

In mind mind politically they are all IDENTICAL.

Furthermore - does anyone really believe that not visiting Russia (or Cuba) will change Putin’s (or Cuban/China’s leaders’) minds and because of that they will suddenly become “nice” and respect human rights and share their country’s wealth with the masses? The only people who will suffer from this type of policy are the common folks - not the leaders; we are punishing the victims and not the “criminals”.

That said, I visit places not for political reasons but for cultural and historical ones. I would LOVE to visit Iran - not because I admire their regime but they are considered one of the cradles of civilization with tremendous cultural and historical landmarks that are welll worth visiting.

JMO.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Paulchili

[sammiedawg]

We were there late October/early November.  We spent four days with a private guide and he discussed the government plans to take control of private tour companies in December.  Now it appears most have been shut down.  How very, very, very sad.  

The government controls wages and jobs pay $30-40 per month,  regardless of skill and education level.   We learned physicians, engineers, educators were quitting their jobs and becoming tour guides.  Not surprised to learn the Cuban government has stymied the entrepreneurial spirit.   I’m so sad for the Cuban people.  

 

I am hoping US officials find a way to grandfather in Americans visiting Cuba via foreign flagged cruise ships.   

[Shawnino]

1 hour ago, RJB said:

Time to shut them all down.  Just read that the Cuban Government has forced most or all of the private tour companies to shut down ...

 

 

So what's up with this? I think it's true (there's a similar posting about two operators on Az board getting shuttered) but is it linked to the new US travel restrictions (and if so, why would it be?) or is in coincidental? 

[Shawnino]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

Legitimate question.

In many ways the governments of those countries are just as oppressive (if not more so) as that of Cuba. They just seem to be a little more prosperous due to many reasons - among them abundant natural and human resources (natural gas, oil, etc).

In mind mind politically they are all IDENTICAL.

Furthermore - does anyone really believe that not visiting Russia (or Cuba) will change Putin’s (or Cuban/China’s leaders’) minds and because of that they will suddenly become “nice” and respect human rights and share their country’s wealth with the masses? The only people who will suffer from this type of policy are the common folks - not the leaders; we are punishing the victims and not the “criminals”.

That said, I visit places not for political reasons but for cultural and historical ones. I would LOVE to visit Iran - not because I admire their regime but they are considered one of the cradles of civilization with tremendous cultural and historical landmarks that are welll worth visiting.

JMO.

 

There's a lot to unpack here but the older I get the more I think the people get the government they deserve. 

 

Speaking about Russia specifically (I've lived there, never in China nor Cuba), Putin's actually fairly popular. Yes, part of that is because the people who control the government also control the mainline media. But the Russians I know value stability over democracy. Democracy, to them, is what took them out of their stable jobs and gave them ten years of uncertainty culminating  in the desperate financial crisis of 1998. 

 

They know that Putin's a bad cat, but they appreciate not having to figure out where their next meal is coming from. 

 

In re: Cuba, the few Cubans I've talked to don't compare their lot to Westerners. They compare their lot to Haitians, and they'll keep what they have, thank you so much.