Elevator usage by ADA persons

[broberts]

3 hours ago, spookwife said:

...Head to the opposite end end of the ship from where the crowd gathers

 

Good advice . . . especially for those using wheelchairs. 

[WpgCruise]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

There are exemptions for all crew for emergency situations, and even drills, get serious.  However, I don't believe that being an elevator monitor would qualify as an "emergency duty".  But for normal circumstances, no, there is no exception for the Captain, because if the Captain is working too many hours, and not getting sufficient rest, his judgement can become impaired, which is why the work/rest hour limitations were instituted in the first place.

There is an old saying along the lines of "I can explain it to you, but I can't make you understand" 

 

No matter how it is explained that the idea of a dedicated handicapped access elevator (s) is not practical, some simply will continue to argue. Such is the nature of people. Is it a great idea, sure !  But in life we have to accept that we don't always get everything we want.  

 

I was born with spina bifida and know full well mobility challenges.  I've lived with them every day of my life.  When I have to wait for an elevator on a cruise ship, it's not a problem. I'm on a cruise, there is no place I have to be that a few more minutes will matter and in the grand scheme of things in my opinion, and my opinion only, there's a lot more important things to fight for than dedicated elevator access.

 

When we spend our resources sniping at the little things, how can we be expected to be taken seriously when we fight for the important issues?

[davekathy]

2 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Serenade has 3 elevators forward serving the theater.  6 midship, but 2 do not go to the DL/CL lounges.

Thanks for the heads up. We will avoid those elevators. We need a direct flight to the DL. 🥃🍺🍷

[GUT2407]

On 5/1/2019 at 12:22 AM, ShillyShally said:

I liken it to the handicap stall in the bathroom - if there is a line, every stall is up for grabs and when someone comes in that needs that stall only, they get next dibs when it's open, but I don't think it should just remain empty in case someone comes in who needs it while the restroom is full.  I have heard retorts otherwise when coming out of said stall to a waiting person who needed it, but politely and respectfully did not give in to their claims it should never be used except...

 

I love always taking the stairs on a cruise, until my last one, when I couldn't.  When crowds were crazy I slowly took to the stairs, that was to avoid the crowds, not so much anything else.  But when I needed the elevator, I went by who was there before me and if someone in a scooter/chair also was waiting, even if they arrived after me, I ensured they could get on before I took any space.  

 

I don't think they can or should dedicate one elevator for specific use, heck you can't even stop the ones who try and get on before you can get off.  I figure it is what it is about cruising, but I've also dealt with it in hotels when a big group is checking out or it's the standard turn-around day for that area.  

Typical thinking by. Many, “The accessible toilet is fair game if the others are occupied” what it doesn’t even consider is that for many the accessible toilet is the ONLY option and many physical disabilities come with bowel and bladder issues.

[A2Mich]

7 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Typical thinking by. Many, “The accessible toilet is fair game if the others are occupied” what it doesn’t even consider is that for many the accessible toilet is the ONLY option and many physical disabilities come with bowel and bladder issues.

 

I don’t think anyone meant they were rushing ahead of someone that actually needs the accessible stall.  They merely stated IF the accessible stall wasn’t already in use.

[GUT2407]

On 5/1/2019 at 7:07 AM, charmy98 said:

When hubby and I were on the Harmony last year I lost count of the times I waited to be able to get on an elevator, I would be in the aisle I would see the green light so would go towards it only to be rushed by others to get on ahead of me. I got so frustrated one night I was in tears as I had been waiting for 20 mins going back and forth trying to get on an elevator. I tried just waiting in front of 1 and same thing people just pushed straight past until there was no room. Unless you have a disability like I and others have, you have no idea what it is like and how humiliating and frustrating it is, not to be normal like you once used to be. I would love to see a dedicated elevator in busy times just for people with, walkers, scooters, wheelchairs or canes. Would it kill non disabled to go without 1 elevator for a bit.

Yep been my experience too, pull up close enough to push the button, have to turn around to face the elevators, one comes, have to turn your chair towards it, by which time either the door has closed and it is gone, or everyone else has jumped in (or enough to leave no room for a wheelchair.

[GUT2407]

3 minutes ago, A2Mich said:

 

I don’t think anyone meant they were rushing ahead of someone that actually needs the accessible stall.  They merely stated IF the accessible stall wasn’t already in use.

And while they’re in there, someone who needs it comes along,

[WpgCruise]

4 minutes ago, A2Mich said:

 

I don’t think anyone meant they were rushing ahead of someone that actually needs the accessible stall.  They merely stated IF the accessible stall wasn’t already in use.

But therein lies the problem.  While the handicapped facility is being used by the non handicapped, it is unavailable for the handicapped.  Same concept as taking a handicapped parking spot.  While the non handicapped is there, it isn't available for the intended use.

 

 

[GUT2407]

Autonomic dysreflexia is unique to individuals with spinal cord damage above T6. It is an abnormal sympathetic nervous system response to any noxious stimuli below the level of injury. It results in a rapid rise in blood pressure that can be life-threatening if not quickly relieved by removal of the stimulus causing it (Kavchak-Keyes, 2000). After bladder problems, bowel problems are the most common stimulus.

 

from

 

https://www.nursingtimes.net/clinical-archive/continence/effective-bowel-management-for-patients-after-spinal-cord-injury/204316.article

 

but I guess you using the stall is more important than possibly putting a life at risk.

 

[MrMarc]

37 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Autonomic dysreflexia is unique to individuals with spinal cord damage above T6. It is an abnormal sympathetic nervous system response to any noxious stimuli below the level of injury. It results in a rapid rise in blood pressure that can be life-threatening if not quickly relieved by removal of the stimulus causing it (Kavchak-Keyes, 2000). After bladder problems, bowel problems are the most common stimulus.

 

from

 

https://www.nursingtimes.net/clinical-archive/continence/effective-bowel-management-for-patients-after-spinal-cord-injury/204316.article

 

but I guess you using the stall is more important than possibly putting a life at risk.

 

So while someone who is just in a wheel chair is using it the same thing happens.  The world cannot be required to conform to what a very small percentage of the population needs or wants.  Certain people conditions impose some limitations on them. The idea of reasonable accommodations is being stretched more and more, and there are more and more abuses of the concept (look at service animals).  Unfortunately renaming something from being a disability does not change things.  Flame away, but reality is reality.

[GUT2407]

2 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

So while someone who is just in a wheel chair is using it the same thing happens.  The world cannot be required to conform to what a very small percentage of the population needs or wants.  Certain people conditions impose some limitations on them. The idea of reasonable accommodations is being stretched more and more, and there are more and more abuses of the concept (look at service animals).  Unfortunately renaming something from being a disability does not change things.  Flame away, but reality is reality.

And that’s why they are set aside as accessible toilets

 

Theyre not labelled as overflow toilets.

 

but I guess some people are just so important they can do as they want.

[MrMarc]

19 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

And that’s why they are set aside as accessible toilets

 

Theyre not labelled as overflow toilets.

 

but I guess some people are just so important they can do as they want.

If that's what you want to think, nothing I or anyone else says will change your mind.  Bathroom facilities are quite different than parking spaces.  Believe it or not, fully abled people sometimes cannot wait.  But go ahead and prejudge everyone.  Some people think they are just so important, nobody else's situtation matters and the world must be prepared to accommodate them.

 

[GUT2407]

5 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

If that's what you want to think, nothing I or anyone else says will change your mind.  Bathroom facilities are quite different than parking spaces.  Believe it or not, fully abled people sometimes cannot wait.  But go ahead and prejudge everyone.  Some people think they are just so important, nobody else's situtation matters and the world must be prepared to accommodate them.

 

Yep I’m happy to judge someone who uses facilities set aside for another group, guess you be happy to use the toilets for the opposite sex too.

[brillohead]

1 hour ago, GUT2407 said:

Typical thinking by. Many, “The accessible toilet is fair game if the others are occupied” what it doesn’t even consider is that for many the accessible toilet is the ONLY option and many physical disabilities come with bowel and bladder issues.

Newsflash -- people without mobility problems can have bowel and bladder issues too.  

Just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean they never have to wait in a line ever again for the rest of their lives.  

And I know a thing or two about mobility issues and autonomic dysreflexia.  If you have AD issues due to bowel or bladder, that's because of your own poor planning or care.  You know how much you drink, you know how much your bladder holds, and you know how often you need to cath.  Same with bowel program. 

If you cut things so close that waiting an extra sixty seconds for someone to come out of the stall is going to kill you, then you have no business managing your own care.  

I don't disagree that people are rude and uncaring.  However, that doesn't mean that you get to have a "personal elevator" held aside for your exclusive use for the duration of the cruise.  If people are cutting in front of you to get to the elevator, just USE YOUR WORDS, for the love of all that is holy.  

"EXCUSE ME, I WAS WAITING HERE BEFORE YOU GOT HERE, COULD YOU LET ME ON THAT ELEVATOR PLEASE?"

A certain amount of volume, and everyone else on the elevator is going to give the stink-eye to the person(s) who was so rude as to push in front of someone in a wheelchair.  Same for if people don't move aside to make room -- simply asking, "Would it be possible to squish in a bit so I can fit, too?" will usually work wonders.

 

Yes, in a perfect world, people wouldn't have to be told to be considerate of others.  Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in.  It has nothing to do with not understanding the things that mobility-challenged people go through and everything to do with not being raised to be inconsiderate brats. 

The able-bodied deal with rude idiots all the time, too -- the mobility-challenged aren't the only ones.  People who park too close so you can't open your car door (the lines are on the pavement for a reason, people!).  People who change lanes without signalling, or cut in front of you and then slam on their brakes.  People who get in the express checkout lane at the grocery store with three carts of groceries instead of "15 items or less".  People who smoke and blow the noxious fumes on the unwilling.  People who stuff their pockets with mints in a candy dish instead of just taking one.  I have a friend who stayed at a hotel yesterday who watched a woman eat her breakfast at the buffet, then pull THREE "to go" containers out of her bag, fill them up with items from the buffet, then walk out of the hotel with her loot.

Rude people are everywhere.  Self-centered people are everywhere.  Stupid people are everywhere.  Being in a wheelchair doesn't mean you get to cut in line, though.  You get to deal with the idiots just like the rest of us, especially if you won't speak up for yourself if someone cuts in front of you in line.

[GUT2407]

2 minutes ago, brillohead said:

Newsflash -- people without mobility problems can have bowel and bladder issues too.  

Just because someone is in a wheelchair doesn't mean they never have to wait in a line ever again for the rest of their lives.  

And I know a thing or two about mobility issues and autonomic dysreflexia.  If you have AD issues due to bowel or bladder, that's because of your own poor planning or care.  You know how much you drink, you know how much your bladder holds, and you know how often you need to cath.  Same with bowel program. 

If you cut things so close that waiting an extra sixty seconds for someone to come out of the stall is going to kill you, then you have no business managing your own care.  

I don't disagree that people are rude and uncaring.  However, that doesn't mean that you get to have a "personal elevator" held aside for your exclusive use for the duration of the cruise.  If people are cutting in front of you to get to the elevator, just USE YOUR WORDS, for the love of all that is holy.  

"EXCUSE ME, I WAS WAITING HERE BEFORE YOU GOT HERE, COULD YOU LET ME ON THAT ELEVATOR PLEASE?"

A certain amount of volume, and everyone else on the elevator is going to give the stink-eye to the person(s) who was so rude as to push in front of someone in a wheelchair.  Same for if people don't move aside to make room -- simply asking, "Would it be possible to squish in a bit so I can fit, too?" will usually work wonders.

 

Yes, in a perfect world, people wouldn't have to be told to be considerate of others.  Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in.  It has nothing to do with not understanding the things that mobility-challenged people go through and everything to do with not being raised to be inconsiderate brats. 

The able-bodied deal with rude idiots all the time, too -- the mobility-challenged aren't the only ones.  People who park too close so you can't open your car door (the lines are on the pavement for a reason, people!).  People who change lanes without signalling, or cut in front of you and then slam on their brakes.  People who get in the express checkout lane at the grocery store with three carts of groceries instead of "15 items or less".  People who smoke and blow the noxious fumes on the unwilling.  People who stuff their pockets with mints in a candy dish instead of just taking one.  I have a friend who stayed at a hotel yesterday who watched a woman eat her breakfast at the buffet, then pull THREE "to go" containers out of her bag, fill them up with items from the buffet, then walk out of the hotel with her loot.

Rude people are everywhere.  Self-centered people are everywhere.  Stupid people are everywhere.  Being in a wheelchair doesn't mean you get to cut in line, though.  You get to deal with the idiots just like the rest of us, especially if you won't speak up for yourself if someone cuts in front of you in line.

No one mentioned having to be in a wheelchair to use one, and yes a bowel or bladder issue would qualify (in my opinion) to use an accessible toilet, my issue is with those who said they don’t need one but it’s fair game if the others are in use.

 

im happy to speak up either when someone pushes in, or uses facilities designed for a specific group, and yep idiots abound on Cruise Critic.

 

and you know blow all about AD if you think you cause it yourself.

 

and do you really think people only spend 69 secs in the toilet? If so if you have no health issues wait that 60 secs for an ordinary toilet.

[brillohead]

4 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Yep I’m happy to judge someone who uses facilities set aside for another group, guess you be happy to use the toilets for the opposite sex too.

If I have to go, I have to go.  I've used the toilet in the men's room before, although I've never been so desperate to use the urinal.

In many places (gas stations, smaller restaurants or office buildings), the ONLY toilet they have is accessible.  Does that mean I have to go tinkle in the parking lot squatted down between some cars, just in case you decide you want to use the accessible toilet?

How about this scenario:  There are two toilet stalls, one accessible and one not, and a line of 20 women waiting to pee.  According to you, none of those women should be allowed to use the accessible stall -- they should all wait twice as long (and maybe pee their pants in the process), instead of using the facilities that are available.... just in case your holy highness should decide to roll in wanting to pee.  

Have you ever potty-trained a child?  Waiting in line for twenty minutes while leaving a perfectly good toilet COMPLETELY UNUSED is not an option.  A potty-training child needs to go NOW, not in twenty minutes.  

The facilities are there for EVERYONE to use.  You are not as special as you think you are.  

[GUT2407]

I think you’ll find places with only one toilet actually mark them as make, female and accessible, never been on a ship with only one toilet.

 

but I guess your happy to park in accessible parking spaces if there are no others too.

[GUT2407]

The one who thinks there special is the one who thinks they are entitled to use facilities that are specifically marked for a specific group, when they aren’t part of that group.

 

but anyway it sounds certain that your set in just doing as you please, so I’m out of here.

[brillohead]

1 minute ago, GUT2407 said:

and you know blow all about AD if you think you cause it yourself.

 

You ARE (or at least, you should be) responsible for managing your own AD triggers.  It's the same as expecting a diabetic person to manage their blood sugar.  

If a diabetic eats a bunch of carbs, I would expect them to check their blood sugar and inject the appropriate amount of insulin and then recheck their blood sugar later to make sure that their glucose is in the appropriate range. 

 

Similarly, if a spinal injured person drinks a bunch more liquid than normal, I would expect them to make arrangements to cath more often than normal.  It's not rocket science -- what goes in, must come out.  Plan accordingly.

[MrMarc]

12 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

 

im happy to speak up either when someone pushes in, or uses facilities designed for a specific group, and yep idiots abound on Cruise Critic.

Actually most people are logical and nice.  The bsthroom facilities are not designated for the exclusive use of disabled people, they are designed to be accessable.  Parking spaces are reserved exclusively, bathroom facilities are not.

[brillohead]

4 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

I think you’ll find places with only one toilet actually mark them as make, female and accessible, never been on a ship with only one toilet.

 

but I guess your happy to park in accessible parking spaces if there are no others too.

 

2 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

The one who thinks there special is the one who thinks they are entitled to use facilities that are specifically marked for a specific group, when they aren’t part of that group.

 

but anyway it sounds certain that your set in just doing as you please, so I’m out of here.

I've never parked in a marked handicapped parking spot, although I have chastised those who do.  

I think the thing that you're forgetting is that accessible toilets ARE NOT MARKED ACCESSIBLE ONLY.  That's the difference.  They are accessible, which means they have been specifically constructed so that you are able to fit in them and move around in them.  But they are NOT set aside for your exclusive use.  

Handicapped parking spots are labeled as such -- they are ONLY for use by those with a placard that has been assigned by government agency giving them permission to do so.  

Accessible facilities, whether they are toilets or anything else, are NOT labeled as only being available for those with special placards.  They are regular facilities that have been constructed so that they ALSO meet the needs of the disabled, so that the disabled have the SAME opportunities to be out and about as everyone else.  

Think of a bank teller situation.  Most bank teller windows have high counters.  Some buildings have been made so that one of those windows is desk-height, instead of counter-height, so that it's more accessible to those who are seated.   That does NOT mean that the bank teller sitting at that window is ONLY there to meet the needs of disabled customers... it makes no sense at all to have dozens of people waiting in line and one teller sitting there not doing anything, on the off-chance that a customer in a wheelchair might come along.  The bank isn't going to pay someone to sit there doing nothing for 95% of the day -- they're going to want that employee waiting on able-bodied customers when there's a line.  

Most accessible toilet stalls don't have any markings at all on them.  You know that they are accessible because they have the wider door, and if the door is open you see the size of the stall and the handrails on the walls.  How can you expect the stall to be restricted for use only by certain people who meet your personal definition of "justified" when there isn't any signage at all restricting entry to any particular subset of the population?  

[brillohead]

3 minutes ago, MrMarc said:

Actually most people are logical and nice.  The bsthroom facilities are not designated for the exclusive use of disabled people, they are designed to be accessable.  Parking spaces are reserved exclusively, bathroom facilities are not.

Great minds, @MrMarc.  You said it a lot more quickly than I did!  LOL

[MrMarc]

1 minute ago, brillohead said:

Great minds, @MrMarc.  You said it a lot more quickly than I did!  LOL

 

Me saying quickly is a rarity!  The problem to me is the ever expanding demands of ever expanding definations of disabilities are beginning to make many people cynical about the actual need of some people.  

[MrMarc]

Just for fun:  Should a handicapped person bexablevtonuse regular parking or regular bathrooms or regular elevators if there is a reserved one?  Warning, this is a trick question.

[brillohead]

I am much more concerned about the lack of enough handicapped parking spaces in the new parking garage at the new Miami terminal than I am about waiting 5-10 minutes for an elevator or 2 minutes for a toilet stall!

I often travel with a paraplegic, and we arrived at Miami after noon and drove the entire ramp looking for an accessible parking spot.  We finally took one of the way-too-numerous "green vehicle only" spots, but had to back in so that he'd be able to get his wheelchair next to the car to transfer.  

If the scooter/wheelchair users want to get behind a REAL problem, they should write to corporate about the parking accommodations, not this petty elevator crap.  I don't think there are enough handicap spots in the new ramp to accommodate all the accessible rooms on even ONE ship, let alone the THREE or more ships that are using that facility. 

And then when you add in all the people who have handicap parking needs but don't need an accessible room on the ship, you realize just how inadequate the handicap parking allowance really is.  Everyone with lung or cardiac problems, everyone with a cane or walker, plus everyone with a scooter or wheelchair... that's hundreds of people on every ship and there are no where near enough parking spaces allocated for them in the parking ramp.