euro cruiser Posted August 15, 2019 #26 Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) Staying in downtown Milan probably isn't an option due to ZTLs (and some of the worst traffic I've ever encountered, how does anyone get work done in that city?), but after flying from California I think I'd want to chill pretty quickly and start out the next morning refreshed. That's great about the airfare and the rental - sometimes it takes a lot of patience to find the best solution. Edited August 15, 2019 by euro cruiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruin Steve Posted August 18, 2019 Author #27 Share Posted August 18, 2019 As of right now, this looks to be the tentative itinerary: Friday, June 26: Arrive at MXP (Milan) at 4:30 pm. Figuring we get luggage and pick up rental car and clear the airport around 6:00 pm local time, we won't want to travel far, I've booked a hotel in Lugano for the night. Per Google Maps, it's about a one hour drive. Saturday, June 27: Drive to Lucerne. About a 2-2.5 hour drive, though we could make several stops or detours and take longer. Stay in Lucerne. Sunday, June 28: Spend a second night in Lucerne. Monday, June 29: Drive to Interlaken (1-1.25 hours). Spend night in Interlaken. Tuesday, June 30: Second night in Interlaken. (Or, would it be better to depart Interlaken in the afternoon and drive to someplace like Montreux, Aosta or even back to Lugano in order to break up the long drive the next day?). Wednesday, July 1: Depart Interlaken early and drive to La Spezia/Portovenere (5-7.5 hours). Hotel in La Spezia/Portovenere. Thursday, July 2: Visit Cinque Terre. Stay in La Spezia/Portovenere. Friday, July 3: Visit Cinque Terre. Stay in La Spezia/Portovenere. Or, should we depart that evening and stay somewhere else on the Italian Coast between La Spezia and Civitavecchia? Saturday, July 4: Drive from La Spezia/Portovenere and to Civitavecchia (3.5-5 hours). Check into hotel in Civitavecchia, return rental car. Sunday, July 5: Board Celebrity Infinity. (Drive times are all per Google Maps. In most cases, I figure we might take a bit longer, making a few stops for meals, gas, restroom breaks, photo stops, etc.). What tweaks, if any, would you make to that itinerary? Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bull Posted August 18, 2019 #28 Share Posted August 18, 2019 (edited) In line with my first post, this route for the drive - not just for the destinations. https://goo.gl/maps/iHm6EAXVMKATcE4w7 It's not the way that google or GPS would send you, but it gives you some magnificent Alpine passes on roads with very little traffic. Check out some street-views on the map, and u-tube videos of some of the passes Milan to Interlaken. 175 mls, 5 hrs. Includes driving part of the western shore of Lake Maggiore, the Simplon Pass & several smaller passes, & the shores of Thunersee Interlaken to Lucerne 105 mls, 3 hrs Includes the shores of Brienzersee, Hwy 6 to Grimsel Pass, take a walk into the glacier at Gletch, & hwy 19 up the Furka Pass to Andermatt. (Not shown on my route, but at Andermatt, mebbe an out-and- back diversion up the Oberalp Pass for about 5 miles for elevated views). Beyond Andermatt, either - Hwy 2, the route as shown - or along the north shore of Lake Lucerne on Hwy 4 then 2b (google won't show it because of current roadworks) - or 6 miles after Andermatt take the ramp at Wassen onto Hwy 11 to drive the Susten Pass. This take you back to Hwy 6 & back toward Interlaken for about 4 miles before following the valley road to Lucerne. Lucerne to La Spezia or thereabouts 320 mls, 6.5 hrs (or less) Return past Andermatt on the old Hwy 2 (signed Passo San Gottardo) for the scenic St Gottard Pass rather than the long tunnel on Hwy 2 autostrada (inter-state/autobahn/motorway/call-it-what-you-will). Further south you can switch to the autostrada, it's just as scenic. At Bellinzona take the ramp signed for Locarno & in 5 mls signed Magadino, and follow the eastern shore of Lake Maggiore to the end before folowing signs to Milan. If time is short, at any time you can switch to the main roads. I don't know the roads around or beyond Milan, so I've not interfered with googlemap's route. Via Genoa is an alternative, but the big bridge collapse last year which took so many lives might make Genoa a bottleneck. JB Edited August 18, 2019 by John Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euro cruiser Posted August 18, 2019 #29 Share Posted August 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Bruin Steve said: (Drive times are all per Google Maps. In most cases, I figure we might take a bit longer, making a few stops for meals, gas, restroom breaks, photo stops, etc.). Even if you drove without stops at maximum allowable speed you won't get there on google's timetable, it grossly underestimates travel time because their algorithm is too simple, it does not take into account traffic lights, much less traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bull Posted August 19, 2019 #30 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, euro cruiser said: Even if you drove without stops at maximum allowable speed you won't get there on google's timetable, it grossly underestimates travel time because their algorithm is too simple, it does not take into account traffic lights, much less traffic. I simply can't agree, EC In my experience it's usually pretty reliable - in the UK, in Europe, in South Africa, in North America and Down-Under. Never been wildly out other than in traffic nightmare places like L.A. or Houston or London's M25. Of course it doesn't take into account short-term road works or incidents, and it can be out on some country lanes. And if programmed to commuter time, ltho it correctly predicts a longer time it wisely quotes a wide band of tolerance - which isn't very helpful but totally understandable. Up-to-date on long-term road closures - tho that's a real pain when figuring a routing during seasonal winter closures in preparation for a summertime road-trip. And in this instance declining to accept a route along Lake Lucerne for Steve's trip next summer because of a current road closure. I find it more accurate than sat-nav (GPS), which I usually beat. Interestingly, for almost all routes it predicts the same small percentage quicker than sat-navs, so I guess they're all singing from the same hymn sheet. But hey, different folk, different experiences. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybear Posted August 19, 2019 #31 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I’m going to suggest you spend a night or even two in Lugano or on one of the Italian lakes near Milan. They are spectacular and will help you dump your jet lag. We have spent several days in that beautiful area and vastly prefer it to the overcrowded Cinque Terre. Sermione, is well worth a visit. For Switzerland, we did the reverse and drove from near Neufchâtel where we based ourselves returning to Italy and stayed overnight in Lugano. It can be very congested around Milano. We loved Interlaken, visiting the Jungfrau and also spend time at Gimmelwald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruin Steve Posted August 19, 2019 Author #32 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I've now made some hotel reservations: 26 June--Lugano 27-28 June--Lucerne 29-30 June--Wengen 1-3 July--Porto Venere 4 July--Civitavecchia The only really long day of driving appears to be between Wengen and Porto Venere--which Google Maps estimates at 6 to 7:50 hours (and I, personally, have found their time estimates to be fairly accurate). Being a Californian, I can deal with that--we are accustomed to long car rides. They do show an alternate route--about 40 minutes longer--driving via the Wasenhorn, Ente Parco Nazionale della Val Grande and driving along the Western side of Lake Maggiore rather than backtracking through Lugano... I am second-guessing Wengen a slight bit...The hotel looked just entirely too cool...and the views extraordinary...But, the problem is that you can't exactly drive to the hotel. You've got to park the car in Lauterbrunnen and take a short train ride up the mountain...and then, back down again...Is it worth it? Or are we better off staying somewhere less scenic but more accessible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruin Steve Posted August 19, 2019 Author #33 Share Posted August 19, 2019 And now I have canceled the reservation in Wengen--and changed to a hotel in Lauterbrunnen. Makes that trek out of the area a little simpler--not having to deal with the train and retrieve the car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caripoo Posted August 22, 2019 #34 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I would spend the time in Switzerland...and then maybe the Trentino area of Italy, another beautiful wine country area. I ABSOLUTELY would not do Cinque Terre in the summer....I am glad you put this is the time you can travel, because I would always tell someone, if you do not have to go in the summer DON'T. I would fly to Zurich and do Bern, Lucern and Zurich. ENJOY whatever you choose!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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