The new Polar Code

[LDEE]

8 minutes ago, sippican said:

 

The Celebrity reply has about as much validity as Celebrity had when they claimed they were compliant with all laws in the Galapagos a few years back. They tried to totally skirt the laws, resulting in suspension and cancelled sailings by the government at the very last second. All the while they claimed  - no sailings will be impacted,

 

 Evidently they are still completely ignorant of the rest of the regulations: different fuel, enclosed lifeboats on every single ship sailing into the region, cold water survival suits for every passenger ....

When I called almost two years ago, they denied any knowledge whatsoever about the Polar Code. Call me a skeptic if you must!

Now that the Falklands have banned all large vessels from visiting, it'll be interesting to see what happens to these itineraries.

Sadly Celebrity's main goal is to collect the most cash possible. So any itinerary changes or even cancelations will only come much later. A large percentage of cruisers opt for FCC which only encourages delay in changes. All of this begs the question do we want to sail to Antarctica without these safety features in place?

[donaldsc]

36 minutes ago, LDEE said:

Sadly Celebrity's main goal is to collect the most cash possible. So any itinerary changes or even cancelations will only come much later. A large percentage of cruisers opt for FCC which only encourages delay in changes. All of this begs the question do we want to sail to Antarctica without these safety features in place?

 

The answer is that many people are very happy to sail to Antarctica w/o safety features because their are either ignorant or don't care.  Look at all the drive by Antarctica cruises that are done on thin hulled cruise ships.  There have been ship groundings and sinking in the Antarctica with small expedition ships where there was no loss of life.  Can you imagine what would happen if one of the larger cruise ships had a problem - Titanic II.

 

DON

[OnTheJourney]

On 6/27/2021 at 10:39 AM, donaldsc said:

The answer is that many people are very happy to sail to Antarctica w/o safety features because their are either ignorant or don't care.

Back in '17, very honestly, I never even gave it a thought. Since they were running the cruises, I just figured all is well with the ships they use to go down there. Now, however, it gives pause for reflection as to how the Infinity would have fared depending on what conditions could have been encountered. You just never know. I would have never imagined being airlifted off of the Viking Sky back in March '19 in a mayday situation. 

[LDEE]

On 6/28/2021 at 6:00 PM, OnTheJourney said:

Back in '17, very honestly, I never even gave it a thought. Since they were running the cruises, I just figured all is well with the ships they use to go down there. Now, however, it gives pause for reflection as to how the Infinity would have fared depending on what conditions could have been encountered. You just never know. I would have never imagined being airlifted off of the Viking Sky back in March '19 in a mayday situation. 

I recently read that the responsibility for enforcement of the Polar Code rests with the country the vessel is flagged in.  This would mean that government officials in Malta would be charged with this responsibility.  With all that is going on in the cruise world, somehow, I doubt the Infinity is going to conform to the code and I also doubt it will matter.  But who knows.

[OnTheJourney]

5 hours ago, LDEE said:

With all that is going on in the cruise world, somehow, I doubt the Infinity is going to conform to the code and I also doubt it will matter.  But who knows.

Money talks....

[Folkfan13]

We're looking at a Princess cruise scheduled to visit Antarctica over 2022/2023.   Princess' answer on how they are going to do that with the new Polar Code was basically, "it's what is currently planned".   It appears that Celebrity also has this approach.    NCL/Holland America, seems to be only going as far south as Elephant Island but is calling that an Antarctica visit.    My guess is Princess/Celebrity are going to obfuscate the big ship interpretation of the code (I certainly haven't seen a part of the code that says, "big ships can not come here after Jan 1, 2022").    As long as they have fuel that will not harm the environment, then not having parkas, etc. for everyone wouldn't bother me.   I think a big cruise ship doing a sail-bye in the summer down to the Peninsula is not a safety issue.   As long as they are keeping the area pristine, then the occasional big ship sailing bye should not be an issue.  So hopefully, these occasional peninsula cruises will go.  

 

[donaldsc]

8 hours ago, Folkfan13 said:

We're looking at a Princess cruise scheduled to visit Antarctica over 2022/2023.   Princess' answer on how they are going to do that with the new Polar Code was basically, "it's what is currently planned".   It appears that Celebrity also has this approach.    NCL/Holland America, seems to be only going as far south as Elephant Island but is calling that an Antarctica visit.    My guess is Princess/Celebrity are going to obfuscate the big ship interpretation of the code (I certainly haven't seen a part of the code that says, "big ships can not come here after Jan 1, 2022").    As long as they have fuel that will not harm the environment, then not having parkas, etc. for everyone wouldn't bother me.   I think a big cruise ship doing a sail-bye in the summer down to the Peninsula is not a safety issue.   As long as they are keeping the area pristine, then the occasional big ship sailing bye should not be an issue.  So hopefully, these occasional peninsula cruises will go.  

 

 

That is a really big if.  We have had several accidents w small polar hardened hull ships including at least 1 sinking luckily no loss of life and minor if any environmental damage.  Can you imagine what would happen when one of the big ships has a problem.  The loss of life would be tremendous as no other ships would be close enough to rescue the several thousand passengers and crew and the amount of fuel and other stuff carried on a big ship to be dumped into the reasonably pristine Antarctic environment would be disastrous probably forever.  It isn't worth the risk.

 

DON 

[foodsvcmgr]

Regardless of individual opinion on the wisdom or merits of Antarctic drive by sailings, the ongoing mystery of interpretation and enforcement of the Polar Code continues as Celebrity has today announced a 2023-24 schedule for the Eclipse sailing from BA.

[Jim9310]

Holland America has been offering a Grand South America & Antarctica voyage for many years, during the South Pole’s summer season.  Has the Volendam been unable to meet the IMO’s Polar Code  requirements effective as of Jan 1, 2022?  Their map implies that the 2023 cruise will not sail below the 60 degree circle, thus eliminating spectacular coastal views previously offered.

     

  

[john2003]

I have been reading the discussions about the new rules for Antarctica for several years. There never seems to be a definitive conclusion as soon as someone says drivebys are over, someone else points out a major cruise line promoting new cruises. The above post by Jim9310 appears to be definitive but doesn't fit the proposed sailings.

I downloaded and skimmed the Polar Code to see if it would help. I have a explanation that may be way off base as I did not do a detailed read. Anyway here is my thinking.

The 60 degree line is not a barrier, it is just defining the area within which the Code applies. South of this latitude the Code informs and constrains all shipping. As a consequence, the driveby ships can't state absolutely where they can go. It will depend on a number of factors to be evaluated in real time. Hull classification, machinery, crew certification, ice conditions, icing conditions, visibility to name a few from my read.

I suspect that routes that used to be followed may now be at more risk of being disallowed but perhaps not always.

In a bad ice year, with poor weather conditions, a cruise might be held outside 60 degrees, worst case. Probably for good reason. I am sure none of us want to get into trouble in Antarctic waters. It is a much bigger deal than missing the Falklands but perhaps not that different.

I look forward to some feedback from readers a lot better informed than myself.

 

 

[foodsvcmgr]

John I think you may be correct, these future itineraries may be more subject to last minute changes than they were in the past.

Unfortunately NCL has just cancelled their program for this season so we won’t have that as a potential guide.

Norwegian Star has changed course in the South Atlantic and is now headed for Miami instead of Buenos Aires.

I’m keeping my booking for now on Celebrity Infinity for January ‘23 and hoping favorable conditions allow us access.

At $3,000 pp for a 14 day cruise veranda cabin that MAY include the tip of Antarctica I can’t really complain as it’s less than my 14 day cruise BA- Santiago in ‘20 and way less than these drive bys were marketed for previously.

My major interest is bird photography so I’m sure there will plenty of opportunities in any case sailing these waters.

Had great results last time.

Expedition ships are out of my price range if I want to retire next year lol…..

 

 

[john2003]

I seriously considered changing our Jan 2023 Oosterdam booking to the Infinity as it is so much less expensive. In the end, decided to stay the course as our flights from Victoria, BC are so long. Seemed we might as well have 3 weeks between flights rather than 2! It was very tempting. Last time we did Antarctica was after Sept 11 when few US residents were prepared to travel. 

[dawei]

Jim9310, From what I've been reading about the Polar Code, I'm certain the Volendam, like all the other "large" cruise ships, does not meet the Code.

We were on her 2020 S. America/Antarctica Grand Voyage and had great weather in the Falklands and for those four days on the Peninsula where we got down to about 65 degrees S. (the Lemaire Channel). 

Holland America's published map for that cruise showing an itinerary route reaching down along the Peninsula, unlike the map for the 2023 cruise (S.A./Antarctica). 

I've been trying to figure out if the 2023 map shows the ship sailing down to the S. Orkney Islands or only as far south as S. Georgia, but can't really tell. Looks like S. Orkneys are just below the 60 degrees latitude line, while S. Georgia is well north of 60 degrees S.

However, I've been reading about S. Georgia here on CC and elsewhere, and it sounds quite interesting.

Bottom line for us is that the entire voyage in 2020 was so good with so much not yet seen/experienced that we've booked it again for 2023. Funny, but near the start of that previous cruise I ran into a fellow PAX who had done the trip a couple times previously. At that early stage, I didn't know why, but now I do.

 

David

 

David

[john2003]

David, I posted the response I just got from HAL on the Oosterdam Jan 11, 23 Roll Call. No clarification.

[dawei]

John, I read your Polar Code response from HAL on Roll Call. Not too surprising at this stage. 

Our 2020 S.A./Antarctica cruise was quite fortunate, beyond the good weather. We got back to Port Everglades March 20, as I recall, just as the pandemic was reaching full speed. Matter of fact, our last 2 ports, (Devils Island, Fr. Guiana and Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic) were skipped. Meanwhile, I was unaware of anyone getting sick on the Volendam. That was the same timeframe when the Zaandam, coming up the Pacific side of S. A., had lots of problems and a couple deaths as well as trouble getting an OK to go through the Panama Canal, as I recall.

Of course, it's a total unknown if HAL's or other cruise lines' early 2023 S.A./Antarctica cruises will happen, thinking about Hlitner (Hank's) recent posting on HAL's CC in which he mentions Oceania cancelling their 2022 S.A. due to port closings and stiff restrictions at other ports in Chile, Argentina and Brazil.

All I can think of at this stage is to remain booked and patient.

 

 

David

[john2003]

Yes, patience is required. I plan and book travel so we are ready if it all works out. If not, I try to minimize our possible financial loss.

[sippican]

On 1/5/2022 at 4:54 PM, foodsvcmgr said:

 

I’m keeping my booking for now on Celebrity Infinity for January ‘23 and hoping favorable conditions allow us access.

At $3,000 pp for a 14 day cruise veranda cabin that MAY include the tip of Antarctica I can’t really complain as it’s less than my 14 day cruise BA- Santiago in ‘20 and way less than these drive bys were marketed for previously.

 

 

 

 

Your bigger issue may be if the Infinity will even return to service. There is much speculation.

[OnTheJourney]

8 hours ago, sippican said:

if the Infinity will even return to service.

Sad to hear this...so she hasn't been sailing of late?  Haven't really kept track. 

[foodsvcmgr]

Fortunately she is now scheduled for some extent of cosmetic upgrades and will return to service in the Caribbean in June then on to South America.

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 2/6/2022 at 6:43 PM, foodsvcmgr said:

Fortunately she is now scheduled for some extent of cosmetic upgrades and will return to service in the Caribbean in June then on to South America.

Infinity got a hull scrape and exterior full repaint.  Some ships still not in service due to Covid restrictions.

The new builds by RCCL meet the standards for polar service.  Do not know about the older smaller ships.

[sippican]

On 2/12/2022 at 2:51 PM, Arizona Wildcat said:

 

The new builds by RCCL meet the standards for polar service.  Do not know about the older smaller ships.

 

That's surprising news!

I wonder if they will be equipped for the Polar Code - survival suits for all, only enclosed lifeboats ... ?

 

[foodsvcmgr]

Princess has today released ‘23-24 season schedule including 16 night sailings that pass Elephant Island, Deception Island, Antarctic Sound, South Shetlands, etc.

Hopefully with Covid becoming more controlled we will see sailings starting in December of this year that will give an accurate idea just how much of this region will be permissible and practical to visit via drive by itineraries going forward.

[shipsealand]

Looking at Google map of Antarctic and the Princess sailing, it looks like it is sailing right by enough to be very close to a peninsula of the mainland mass and below the 60 deg South "rule". Need to hear from those who have done the sailing January 2023 on how was it.

Edited April 14, 2022 by shipsealand

[sippican]

4 hours ago, shipsealand said:

Looking at Google map of Antarctic and the Princess sailing, it looks like it is sailing right by enough to be very close to a peninsula of the mainland mass and below the 60 deg South "rule". Need to hear from those who have done the sailing January 2023 on how was it.

I do not believe that any of the "big ships" have done their proposed Antarctic itineraries at this point.  We'll need to wait and see for the 2022/2023 season. 

The smaller expedition companies are sailing as expected.

[foodsvcmgr]

Sippican you are correct, all the drive bys after the code change were cancelled by Covid.

Norwegian Star would have been the ship to watch, but she changed course enroute to South America and the Antarctic trips were aborted.

As a result of continued uncertainty I have moved my Celebrity Infinity sailing next year to Celebrity Eclipse in January 2024.

Will make a final decision once we can accurately understand from next winter exactly where these drive bys are able to sail.