Silly question for the marine professionals

[Peregrina651]

I don't even know why I am thinking about this but I am curious. How are river going vessels moved from one river to another? How does a river going vessel built in  say Germany finally make its way to the Rhone or the Seine or the Douro or even the Upper Nile?? TIA

[steamboats]

There are no river cruise ships built in Germany which are going on the Douro or Nile river. For both rivers the ships are built locally. I´ve been to a ship naming in Porto recently and the shipyard is on the coast of Portugal North of Porto. So the ship had to go over the Atlantic ocean to get to Porto.

 

For all other European rivers (including the Po river in Italy) there are basically two different methods. As for the Neptun Werft in Warnemünde all ships built there do go under their own power through the Baltic Sea to the Kiel Kanal and then proceed on near the coast to the Rhine river (like all Viking longships). The boats are boarded up and are not allowed to carry passengers for those trips.

 

A river cruise ship can go from Hamburg (Elbe river) through the Kiel Canal to Kiel with passengers. It´s not a very common itinerary but I saw the Excellence Coral last weekend in Kiel.

 

On the Oder river the river cruise ships go out into the Baltic Sea for Stralsund with passengers.

 

The other method of transportation is a special freight ship. There are ships which work more or less like a floating dock. So you can lower the ship into the water (submerge) and then a ship can go into that dock area. As soon as it´s in the dock part is going up again and the ship sits high and dry. These are also pretty common for sailing yachts to transfer them seasonally (let´s say between the Caribbean and the Med). Google for pictures "transport ship blue marlin".

 

steamboats

[notamermaid]

Not a silly question at all. Steamboats has given you a great answer.

Just to add a variety for the transport across rivers. The Vahaly shipyards build the ships way down the Danube and are then sent upstream to be deployed on the Danube, Main and Rhine. I have read that they at least sometimes finish them in the Netherlands, those ships do not sail but are pushed or tugged by another boat. This is what I saw a couple of years back on the Rhine. Essentially just a hull of a ship. An odd sight.

Vahaly shipyards build many vessels of several companies and they have videos on YouTube, if you are interested.

 

notamermaid

 

[Peregrina651]

THANK YOU!!

 

All very interesting!

[steamboats]

Yes, Vahaly is just building the steel part - so it´s sort of just a hull but painted and then it´s being towed to the Netherlands where it´s finished.

 

But actually it´s not really a method of transportation. It´s just a method of construction. The steel work is done in one place and the interior work in another. Inbetween the ship is moved by towboats but stays on the Danube - Main - Rhine river system.

 

steamboats

Edited May 24, 2019 by steamboats

[Coral]

So the Russian ships? The one I was on was built in Austria in 1979.

[laverendrye]

3 hours ago, Coral said:

So the Russian ships? The one I was on was built in Austria in 1979.

The vast majority of the cruise ships on the St. Petersburg-Moscow run were built in the DDR.  Some were built in Czechoslovakia and two in Austria.

[Coral]

24 minutes ago, laverendrye said:

The vast majority of the cruise ships on the St. Petersburg-Moscow run were built in the DDR.  Some were built in Czechoslovakia and two in Austria.

So how were they brought over to Russia?

[RDVIK2016]

4 hours ago, Coral said:

So how were they brought over to Russia?

Coral, as far getting a boat ship form "Czechoslovakia" I am taking a guess that the boat was built in Děčín in Czechia which is on the Labe river - that's the Czech name for the Elbe.  A shallow draft cruise ship can navigate down the Elbe to Hamburg and through the Kiel canal to the Baltic Sea, across the Baltic sea to St. Petersburg and into the Neva/Svyr/Volga river and canal system and on the he Don River by canal from the Volga. On the Don you can get to the Black Sea. A boat built in an Austrian shipyard (or in Bratislava, Slovakia) could get to the North Sea at Rotterdam by way of the Rhein-Main-Danube canal and river system.  Then on to the Kiel Canal like a Czech boat that would come down the Elbe.  I suppose it would be possible also for a boat built on the Danube in Austria or Slovakia to go downstream to the Black Sea and across, past Crimea and to the mouth of the Don and from there up to the Volga.

 

Here is another way to transport river vessels over the ocean.  These are river barges loaded on the Blue Marlin heavy lift ship for transport from Korea to the Netherlands.  

Edited May 28, 2019 by RDVIK2016

[notamermaid]

Getting a ship from Austria to Russia would today indeed be possible via the Canal and Rotterdam. The older ships did not have this possibility as it was only completed in 1992.

 

The shipyard in Linz should know the way to Russia, if that is where the older ships were built.

 

notamermaid

 

[laverendrye]

<<Coral, as far getting a boat ship form "Czechoslovakia" I am taking a guess that the boat was built in Děčín in Czechia which is on the Labe river - that's the Czech name for the Elbe.>>

 

Nine ships of the Kuibyshev class were built for the Volga Shipping Company between 1978 and 1983 in Komárno Czechoslovakia (since 1993, Komárno, Slovakia), and are now operated by Vodohod.  

 

Two ships of the Anton Chekhov Class (the other is the Lev Tolstoy) were built in 1978-79 at Korneuburg, Austria.

 

As both shipping works are on the Danube and the ships were built before the Rhein-Main canal was opened, I assume that they went to Russia via the Danube and Black Sea.

 

I also assume that the 28 Dimitriy Furmanov class ships built at Boizenburg on the Elbe would have proceeded to Russia by way of the Elbe and Baltic.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by laverendrye

[notamermaid]

"Two ships of the Anton Chekhov Class (the other is the Lev Tolstoy) were built in 1978-79 at Korneuburg, Austria."

 

Thank you, I could not find that info yesterday, I thought they might have been built at Linz. Via the Black Sea, yes that works up the Dnepr, up the Don as well? Being unfamiliar with the rivers and connecting canals, I can only presume it works with the Don and possibly the Volga (the Caspian Sea then).

 

By the way, I have seen several ships coming upstream on the Rhine with boarded-up windows and have been wondering why they do that. Does anybody know, I mean along the Baltic coast o.k., but they do not really need them on rivers and canals, right?

 

notamermaid

 

[Coral]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

"Two ships of the Anton Chekhov Class (the other is the Lev Tolstoy) were built in 1978-79 at Korneuburg, Austria."

 

Thank you, I could not find that info yesterday, I thought they might have been built at Linz. Via the Black Sea, yes that works up the Dnepr, up the Don as well? Being unfamiliar with the rivers and connecting canals, I can only presume it works with the Don and possibly the Volga (the Caspian Sea then).

 

By the way, I have seen several ships coming upstream on the Rhine with boarded-up windows and have been wondering why they do that. Does anybody know, I mean along the Baltic coast o.k., but they do not really need them on rivers and canals, right?

 

notamermaid

 

It was the Tolstoy that I was on. 

 

Thanks everyone.

[Lois R]

15 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Coral, as far getting a boat ship form "Czechoslovakia" I am taking a guess that the boat was built in Děčín in Czechia which is on the Labe river - that's the Czech name for the Elbe.  A shallow draft cruise ship can navigate down the Elbe to Hamburg and through the Kiel canal to the Baltic Sea, across the Baltic sea to St. Petersburg and into the Neva/Svyr/Volga river and canal system and on the he Don River by canal from the Volga. On the Don you can get to the Black Sea. A boat built in an Austrian shipyard (or in Bratislava, Slovakia) could get to the North Sea at Rotterdam by way of the Rhein-Main-Danube canal and river system.  Then on to the Kiel Canal like a Czech boat that would come down the Elbe.  I suppose it would be possible also for a boat built on the Danube in Austria or Slovakia to go downstream to the Black Sea and across, past Crimea and to the mouth of the Don and from there up to the Volga.

 

Here is another way to transport river vessels over the ocean.  These are river barges loaded on the Blue Marlin heavy lift ship for transport from Korea to the Netherlands.  

WOW that is pretty cool!

[TravelerThom]

16 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

A boat built in an Austrian shipyard (or in Bratislava, Slovakia) could get to the North Sea at Rotterdam by way of the Rhein-Main-Danube canal and river system. 

The boats under discussion (Chekhov and Tolstoy) are too wide, too tall and probably have too much draught to have used the Rhine-Main-Danube Canal even if it had been finished in 1979. 

[RDVIK2016]

34 minutes ago, TravelerThom said:

The boats under discussion (Chekhov and Tolstoy) are too wide, too tall and probably have too much draught to have used the Rhine-Main-Danube Canal even if it had been finished in 1979. 

The various classes of ships were not mentioned until after I wrote about taking the Rhein-Main-Donau Kanal from shipyards based in Slovakia or Austria.   Those Russian boats listed earlier today by lavenrendrye all are too tall and have too much draft to take that route.  Also my description of how to get from Děčín in Czechia is off because the reference to Czechoslovakia was not to a shipyard on the Labe (Elbe) in Czechia, but to a builder in Slovakia prior to the Velvet Revolution.  These ships are very old compared to the western European river cruise ships.  The reference to Czechoslovakia also threw me off thinking of larger ships because of the restrictions to navigation on the Elbe.  Turns out some of the Russian (or to be consistent in the time frame: Soviet Union) boats were built on the Elbe in East Germany, far on the the lower reaches rather close to Hamburg.  Anyway - interesting the learn of the history of the Russian boats. 

[Coral]

3 hours ago, RDVIK2016 said:

The various classes of ships were not mentioned until after I wrote about taking the Rhein-Main-Donau Kanal from shipyards based in Slovakia or Austria.   Those Russian boats listed earlier today by lavenrendrye all are too tall and have too much draft to take that route.  Also my description of how to get from Děčín in Czechia is off because the reference to Czechoslovakia was not to a shipyard on the Labe (Elbe) in Czechia, but to a builder in Slovakia prior to the Velvet Revolution.  These ships are very old compared to the western European river cruise ships.  The reference to Czechoslovakia also threw me off thinking of larger ships because of the restrictions to navigation on the Elbe.  Turns out some of the Russian (or to be consistent in the time frame: Soviet Union) boats were built on the Elbe in East Germany, far on the the lower reaches rather close to Hamburg.  Anyway - interesting the learn of the history of the Russian boats. 

Thanks! Interesting :)

[Host Jazzbeau]

Well, if we're now talking about (much) older ships:  they could have been portaged by those fabled Viking Rus